GAC to Become DAS

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JerseyDad

Well-Known Member
Fifteen minutes and whatever slice of the class-action pie they can get. An unfortunate (but probably not unexpected) reaction to change....


....I may be wrong ...but wasn't the "class" lawsuit filed in California regarding Disneyland? Unless these Floridians actually attended Disneyland I do not believe they can be party to the suit. (unless there is a similar suit filed in Fla)
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
....I may be wrong ...but wasn't the "class" lawsuit filed in California regarding Disneyland? Unless these Floridians actually attended Disneyland I do not believe they can be party to the suit. (unless there is a similar suit filed in Fla)

Nothing's been filed yet.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
....I may be wrong ...but wasn't the "class" lawsuit filed in California regarding Disneyland? Unless these Floridians actually attended Disneyland I do not believe they can be party to the suit. (unless there is a similar suit filed in Fla)

That is one of the reasons the first round of suits were tossed from Disney World with Segways. Those disabled folks indeed used Segways as their ADA apparatus of choice for their disability. They were ticked because they couldn't visit WDW with their Segways even though they could at Universal, zoos etc etc.

Their mistake was they were not allowed to proceed with a lawsuit because they never went to WDW and were never turned away or Segway denied. Ooops.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I question that story as well especially since all it took to get a GAC was to request one. I don't see a rich person paying for something when they could have gotten it for free.
A disability to them would mean an imperfection. No problem with accompanying someone with a disability, that makes them warm, loving people. I can see it. They are above lowering themselves to ask for a GAC, so they hire someone to get it for them. I can totally see that happening.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
....I may be wrong ...but wasn't the "class" lawsuit filed in California regarding Disneyland? Unless these Floridians actually attended Disneyland I do not believe they can be party to the suit. (unless there is a similar suit filed in Fla)
Nothing has been filed. Yet....

And I would imagine any suit would be against Disney as a corporation, and not an individual park....
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
....I may be wrong ...but wasn't the "class" lawsuit filed in California regarding Disneyland? Unless these Floridians actually attended Disneyland I do not believe they can be party to the suit. (unless there is a similar suit filed in Fla)

It's the same company - applying the same discriminatory action at multiple locations - that's how customers at both locations can be under the same suit. It's like suing McDonald's Corporate for their business policies at they dictated for your local franchise location. The policies one would argue are discriminatory are corporate policies - not local.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
As much as I'm not a huge fan of the term, the fact she's started a blog and Twitter account all within the past 90 days does tell me she's working hard to raise her social media profile. Facts I'm sure were not lost on Universal either....

I think people in this thread give her way too much attention and are elevating her. I imagine there are dozens or hundreds of people for every Hippie Chick with the same 'issues' they just beyond our horizon..

Personally I'm dumbfounded people go through the trouble of recording themselves talking to a camera, editing, and uploading them this much. Imagine for every person who does that, how many orders of magnitude are of the same mindset that don't bother to go through that trouble? Is that person a 'leader' or just the one willing to publish themselves? I vote for the latter.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
Apparently they have rolled out the red carpet for her and she is now in looovvvveee Universal and as she puts it the best GAC ever made!!!!! Go check it out!!!

I'll take your word for it;). Good for her. If she prefers Universal now over WDW no big loss. Disney will replace her with another guest and not skip a beat. The only people who may be harmed are people who visit her page and believe what she is saying rather than trying things for themselves. In that case a kid may miss out on a really fun experience which is sad, but I guess that is really the parent's fault for listening to her.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
I question that story as well especially since all it took to get a GAC was to request one. I don't see a rich person paying for something when they could have gotten it for free.
People hire tour guides. I can see that. I can even believe that people would pay a tour guide for shorter lines because they don't want to bother investigating how to skip lines without one. People pay others to do what they could do themselves (but lack the time, knowledge or desire) all the time.

It's the rest of the story that I completely do not believe. The timing was interesting, as well.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I will concede that it is possible that I have missed something important here, so I will just ask why since the DAS program started we have not had a huge influx of people posting complaints based on actual experience. So far, most of what I have seen are people leaping to judgment about something they and the rest of us do not even know about. Denied access for wheelchair folks. When was that a proven thing? That, in my mind, is just pure speculation brought on by someone with concerns, but, without actually experiencing the situation. And they all sound so sure of themselves. "now I can't go to Disney anymore, since they don't care about me anymore." I'm not there, they didn't consult me about what they were going to do, but, I do know that they are NOT going to leave severely disabled people out in the cold. They will be taken care of. The pity party has run it's course and it time to weigh in on the actualities of the situation. To me there are four main points to the changes.

1. One person will be identified as that person needing the DAS within a group of 6. They will have their picture on the pass and there will no longer be the ability to get grandma a Pass so she can sit out in the park while her family rides the ride without her. The pass is for her benefit not theirs.

2. Just like anyone else. You ride an attraction and move on to the next one. The idea of continued riding over and over while non-disabled people wait to get on it even once. That was never logical or fair. The argument is that if my child doesn't get to ride over and over, he/she will have a meltdown. Well, that is the risk that you are taking. They won't be the first ones to have a meltdown in a Disney Park and will not be the last. My children didn't always have the reasoning ability to understand why things were happening, but the did understand the word no. They threw fits sometimes, whined, raised a fuss in public, but the answer was still no.

3. There are a million things to do and see at Disney. Now just like everyone else they may have to wait a few minutes (still less then everyone else) to still have the opportunity to basically go to the front of the line. Just not immediately. Unlike the rest of us they will still be able to get regular FP's (plus or whatever) and on top of that they can get quick FP like service at whatever attraction that they sign up for with DAS.

4. There is a better chance that whatever disability exists isn't a one size fits all. If you can use a regular line without any real negative effect on your being other then not wanting to be there. The regular line is where you will be. Even the idea that they cannot ask what a persons diagnosis (medically speaking) is, doesn't mean that a more detailed explanation might be necessary to properly set that person up for the help that they need and deserve.

What I have just listed I will happily tell you is what I have been able to pull together from what information has been reported or, for that matter, possibly speculated. What I do know is that Disney will be nailed to a wall if they don't make the effort to provide for someone that truly needs it. They cannot afford to do that, publicity wise, they will do what they can for as many as they can, hopefully being those that actually need it.

All other low life, lying, cheating, heartless, self centered $#@&*%^@) as far as I am concern should be lined up against a wall and shot. I couldn't care less if they ever get to ride any ride at all.
 

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
I will concede that it is possible that I have missed something important here, so I will just ask why since the DAS program started we have not had a huge influx of people posting complaints based on actual experience. So far, most of what I have seen are people leaping to judgment about something they and the rest of us do not even know about. Denied access for wheelchair folks. When was that a proven thing? That, in my mind, is just pure speculation brought on by someone with concerns, but, without actually experiencing the situation. And they all sound so sure of themselves. "now I can't go to Disney anymore, since they don't care about me anymore." I'm not there, they didn't consult me about what they were going to do, but, I do know that they are NOT going to leave severely disabled people out in the cold. They will be taken care of. The pity party has run it's course and it time to weigh in on the actualities of the situation. To me there are four main points to the changes.

This thread is dominated by posters who are not in WDW nor have been in recent weeks. I happen to be one person who was there during the GAC/DAS changeover. I reported my experiences and what issues I experienced.

Yes I was initially denied a DAS on the basis I use a power wheelchair and was not autistic. I reported that on this thread some 20-30 pages ago.

I was eventually approved for a DAS by a manager when I questioned what the first CM who denied me told me.

I reported on my experiences using DAS at two attractions (Test Track and TSM). And how I was treated as a wheelchair user at Star Tours (i.e. sent away with a longer wait time and not allowed to enter the air conditioned wheelchair line like I did before DAS was implemented). That bit I registered a complaint with Guest Relations over and really hope they adjust those admittance times to something more lax than the rigid 10 min Standbys.

I also posted in this thread days before DAS was employed bringing to light the discriminatory wording of DAS policy that specifically excluded folks using wheelchairs from obtaining DAS cards. The language is meant to prevent the marginally-disabled or cheaters who will use wheels to get from point a to b from obtaining DAS and abusing the new system. What practical effect it has is that those who are wheelchair-bound and have issues that make waiting inside a crowded queue difficult or dangerous are encountering a bias amongst CMs who mistakenly believe wheels solve all issues. So yes, the "severely disabled" (or what many people will think of as "severely disabled") are in fact being left out in the cold under DAS. My experience proved that unless you are willing to question and fight for your accommodation, you are more likely to be denied.

Meanwhile I know on at least two other forums people are posting their experiences of difficulties with DAS. The last few days the biggest reports have come in from the visually-impaired. Before with GAC these folks would get a GAC card that had a stamp directing attraction CMs where to send them for seating and boarding that accommodates their blindness. Under DAS, they're being denied DAS cards and having difficulty getting CMs at attractions to direct them appropriately. Several have reported having to explain their needs/requests to multiple CMs and still being sent along with sighted guests to areas that were dangerous and inappropriate to fulfill their needs. (i.e. blind guests being sent down dark, elevated walkways they cannot navigate safely, whilst others that should be sent down wheelchair access ramps to the front row theater seating are instead put in the crowd and seated in the middle to back of the theater where they cannot see).

Just because a lot of the regular posters in this thread are more likely to debate one aspect of the topic doesn't mean there aren't many others posting about the other issues. I know my posts got buried under the Autism Hippie rants (and in some cases I was chastised for having problems with DAS because to do so meant to some I had an "entitlement attitude").

FWIW and once again, my experience with DAS left me wth mixed emotions about my future WDW visits. My next one is NYE. I only used GAC for a possible 7 attractions in WDW and then only a few times per trip. I was not by any stretch of definition an "abuser" who lied to get a pass nor used it for revolving door access to an attraction. Since I have boarding issues that leave me using limited wheelchair-accessible vehicles, I primarily used GAC as an express entry to my wheelie line where I waited 10-30 mins to board. In some cases, DAS works just fine with me and the way I toured. (I just get a TSM Return Time to start my day instead of doing something else then lining up for TSM.) In other cases, it makes me wait longer than everyone else and becomes decidedly unfair. My next trip I'll have FP+ and Magic Band so I'll be able to incorporate both systems and see how they work for me.

I've been monitoring the FP+ situation as well so that gives me a whole new set of concerns. (For instance, I noticed while in WDW the MDE app on my Android phone was so slow it was basically unusable.) The past 5 years when I go to Disney for NYE I spend NYE itself at DHS. I go for dinner, fireworks then after midnight I go to ride TSM with my family. I spend the rest of the night (it's EMH after midnight in that park) enjoying Osborne Lights. Right now CMs have no idea how they'll handle DAS for this post-midnight EMH time. I asked specifically about it. The big test of DAS to me will be what happens after midnight when I go to ride TSM. I won't be able to schedule a FP+ time. DAS may mean I'll have to chose between spending my last hour at the park that night in line for TSM's wheelie car or enjoying an uncrowded Osborne Lights. That will affect how usable I find the program.
 

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
One other thing to note, my situation is one where I can have the best possible adaptation to DAS because I did not rely on GAC to do all my touring.

I used it for the few headliner attractions I can do (I cannot ride most of the headliners with my disability). Using GAC allowed me to mitigate my longest waits and dedicate my time to the majority of my touring. I didn't use it for the minor or mid-range attractions, nor would I use it for a headliner attraction that had under a 30 minute wait. And of those 7 possible attractions I used it for, I did not attempt all 7 every trip. Last trip, I was there 3 weeks and used these special access programs for 3 attractions for a grand total of 5 times combined. The other 4 I didn't bother going to.

All in all, I'm lucky in that I'll be the least affected.
 

BroganMc

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I'm for all of the changes but I really don't want people like you (you said "I'm one of those wheelchair-bound people who doesn't transfer and obviously looks physically disabled') to have to wait in standby. I saw another site where a woman with a little girl who was on a walker was waiting in line (and she wasn't complaining either). It's a shame that the true nature of the GAC has been destroyed by various groups of people, from the fakers to the abusers.

Thank you. I agree. My concern is that Disney's new DAS policy is forcing a lot more of these vulnerable folks into potentially dangerous crowd situations. I fear for the first person with a walker or in a wheelchair who gets hurt by the impatient pedestrian crowd around them. Whenever I saw what seemed like a vulnerable person to me heading for the Standby line I'd stop them and educate them about GAC for their own safety. I know what it is to survive a pedestrian collision. (I even humorously invented a game called the "Moving Obstacle Course" for one of my blog trip reports.)

If I tried to stand and walk in a pedestrian queue (I have the ability to walk about 10 feet), I'd expose myself to extreme harm. If I didn't trip and fall on my own, someone would accidentally bump me and knock me to the pavement. That's actually happened in my life. Now I worry more about people accidentally colliding with my feet or arms. You are much better protected in an ECV than wheelchair. The tiller of the ECV provides a protected zone for your legs.

Wheelchairs leave your front exposed. Those folks using Rollators, Walkers and Crutches are the most exposed to harm. If I see such a person, I always give them lots of leeway and as much protection as possible.

Maybe this is over simplifying things, but why not have 2 independent systems? 1 for wheelchair guests using the wheelchair accessible cars and DAS for other disabilities for guests who can use the regular ride vehicles but can't wait in line. The whole point in the change is to try to cut back on abuse. If the wait at the wheelchair eligible loading area is longer anyway that's not where the abuse is occurring.

Two reasons: (1) There isn't enough space to form a FP line and wheelchair line. Disney used to have separate entrances/lines for us wheelie folks. Then they used that space for FP. Their solution became to use GAC as a way to admit the wheelie folks into FP and get them into their wheelie car line. DAS specifically denies them the access. One of those quirks. (2) People will rent wheelchairs to "fake" a need in hopes of getting them on the rides faster. The practical end result is the wheelie lines will get artificially inflated by the fakers.

There isn't a GAC designated car. There is a vehicle designed for wheelchairs/transferring from wheelchairs. GAC used FastPass at DHS unless you needed special assistance.

The poster you referred to is talking about the Wheelie Line at TSM. It indeed is a separate line that forms after the FP/Standby merge and bypasses the stairs. Everyone with wheels or who cannot climb stairs is sent into that line. It is served by 2 ride vehicles: one 8-seater for all transfer guests and one 6-seater that accommodate one wheelchair guest. It takes 6 minutes to cycle each car into that queue. They alternate every 3 minutes, with a 1-2 minute buffer allowing time for the special access vehicles to be incorporated into the normal ride cycle.

TSM is unlike every other ride with wheelie-vehicles. Most have a designated vehicle constantly running through the ride that is then boarded at the entrance or exit. Boarding times are much faster as a result. TSM is more like Kali River Rapids or Test Track in that special arrangements are made to allow disabled boarding and putting into the normal ride cycle. But because TSM's wheelchair line is usually so incredibly busy handling transfers and non-transfers, the waits are longest here and you get no courtesy repeat rides. (i.e. that's when there is no one waiting for the special vehicle and they allow a guest to go on a repeat trip rather than board/unboard.)
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
This thread is dominated by posters who are not in WDW nor have been in recent weeks. I happen to be one person who was there during the GAC/DAS changeover. I reported my experiences and what issues I experienced.
The entire situation that you encountered is summed up by the part that I highlighted. You were there during the transition. Nothing that big with complete understanding required by thousands of CM's is ever going to come off smoothly. In a perfect world, it would do just that. I don't need to tell you what type of world we live in. You, eventually, did what was necessary and asked someone else. OK, not a problem now right? You are correct, however, that it was probably easier with a GAC. That is why it got replaced, it was too easy. It defeated it's purpose and I would think that someone that has to deal with a disability every day of your life, would not help but have a bit of upset about the blatant abuse of a system set up to help those that needed it, not just wanted it. If you don't, then your emotions are not functioning normally. It doesn't need to be anger but it does need to be at least a feeling of being once again treated as a means to an end and not a situation that recognizes the degree of hardship that is a daily experience for someone like yourself.

I have no crystal ball that sees into the future any more then you do. My opinion is that whatever bugs are in this system will be ironed out and soon. However, a new system that reality changes probably at an hourly rate right now, is going to have some gaps until it becomes a viable system that works to the degree that it should for each persons needs. Who knows it might end up being just a GAC with a different name. Knowing that Disney's normal operating system avoids confrontation like the plague, it may just be a throw their hands up in the air and say...trying to be fair just isn't worth it.
 
..so I will just ask why since the DAS program started we have not had a huge influx of people posting complaints based on actual experience. So far, most of what I have seen are people leaping to judgment about something they and the rest of us do not even know about. Denied access for wheelchair folks. When was that a proven thing? That, in my mind, is just pure speculation brought on by someone with concerns, but, without actually experiencing the situation.
We have a child that is wheelchair bound and can't transfer and we went to the World from 09/14 to 09/22 so I can't comment on DAS but I know for a fact that even with GAC that allowed us to enter the queue immediately, we waited longer than those in the standby queue because we had to wait for a wheelchair accessible vehicle. Given this fact, it can only be assumed that under DAS, which does not have immediate access, the wait time for those who are truly disabled will be even longer. How can this be speculation?

However, I am confident that Disney will realize this inequality and on those rides that have accessible ride vehicles, they will start to allow immediate access but the person in the wheelchair must ride the accessible ride vehicle. None of this crap where some jerk using a wheelchair gets immediate access to only have a miraculous recovery and hop out and enter the first ride vehicle that comes by. I witnessed too much of this abuse while waiting and I literally wanted to break the fraudster's legs (and this includes the fat tubs of lard calling their lack of control a disability).
 
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deix15x8

Active Member
I visited Disney World from the 10th to the 19th, just a day after the switch and found it rather fair. I was traveling with my extended family which includes my severely disabled aunt. She cannot walk, speak, or see and uses an adaptive wheelchair so it was obviously not an issue to get her a card. This was my first visit to Disney World with her so I cannot speak to previous visits but it seemed fair, you just had to plan things out more. You couldn't just walk up to a ride and expect to go on it, you had to plan the next several rides and monitor the wait times in the mobile app. We had to know which rides had lines that she could go on and get her card signed. We could then come back after the current wait time, minus 10 minutes, and go on it. This gave time to feed or change her. We could also then go on rides with a 15 minute or less wait during this time to keep her occupied. The fact that the card did not expire, you just could not get it signed again until it was used (or cross the previous out which we did twice), meant that when we ran into issues and were held up we never felt like we had to rush to get somewhere, we could take our time and take care of the issues. The system also did not prevent us from using FastPass with it so on some of the more popular rides in Epcot we got FastPasses so that we could get her card signed elsewhere. On rides like Test Track where it takes extra time (and extra CM effort) to get us to where we can load her (then 3 people have to help do it) we were able to ride twice. On rides with a short line (and no one waiting for a special vehicle) she was also given the option to ride again (think this only occurred once on It's A Small World later in the day). As someone who usually doesn't travel to WDW with anyone using these systems but very familiar with them I can view it from both sides. I've always hated them, when benefiting from them I feel weird cutting the lines and when waiting in line I feel angry at people cutting the line and holding me up. This system takes care of that as we were still forced to wait the line time, just not in the physical line.

The system is not perfect though. They do cut 10 minutes from the line time to account for the time to get through the queue, the time to get her loaded, and the time for a proper vehicle to arrive but we still had one issue. When we did the Jungle Cruise they were not using the cards (one of about 3 we found) and instead gave us what looked like a hand written fastpass that worked the same way (just didn't count against our cards allowance). I believe it was a 40 minute wait at that time and when we came back after 40 minutes their was a lengthy line of wheelchairs. It took an additional 30+ minutes on top of the 40 minutes in order to get on the ride. This seemed to be a result of the limited number of accessible vehicles and time it took to do the ride. They sign the cards and have you come back so you don't have to wait in line but they don't seem to manage how many they sign so we still ended up waiting in line almost as long as the regular line and it took nearly twice as long to get on the ride. If that's the only complaint I can come up with after a week though, I think Disney has done a pretty good job. I can't really think of how they could fix this issue. Even switching to a separate MagicBand FastPass system would limit how many are signed but not prevent them all from showing up at once.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
None of this crap where some jerk using a wheelchair gets immediate access to only have a miraculous recovery and hop out and enter the first ride vehicle that comes by. I witnessed too much of this abuse while waiting and I literally wanted to break the fraudster's legs (and this includes the fat tubs of lard calling their lack of control a disability).
Not everyone who needs a wheelchair in order to tour WDW is immobile. Perhaps you didn't know this.

I'm glad to see you were able to control your temper, as it could have been a very sick person you wanted to attack.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
(and this includes the fat tubs of lard calling their lack of control a disability).
The "fat tubs of lard" as you so lovingly called them, may, and I want to put an emphasis on MAY have had a control problem, but that control problem (if that's what it was) turned into a disability. If a person is in a wheelchair because they were driving to fast, driving drunk or texting and got into a serious accident which left them disabled, should we call their problem a lack of control or recognize that what it is now is a disability?
 

pais

Member
I was traveling with my extended family which includes my severely disabled aunt. She cannot walk, speak, or see and uses an adaptive wheelchair so it was obviously not an issue to get her a card.
I'm not trying to be rude or fresh, but I think the level of noise and crowding at Disney World could kill a senior citizen in this condition.
 
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