Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[lazyboy97o]

I have a problem with the foundation of this statement.

First, lets use Frozen as an example. Prior to Disney creating Frozen, the characters did not exist, and therefore had no connection to anything already known as Disney. Once Disney created Frozen, is that when it suddenly became more Disney than attractions that have already been in a Disney theme park for decades?

From another point of view, Pirates of the Caribbean had absolutely no connection to a Disney when the ride first opened in Disneyland. Was it therefore unpopular and avoided by the park guests? Same for Haunted Mansion, Big Thunder Mountain, Soarin', Test Track, Space Mountain, Space Ship Earth, The Land, the original Journey into Imagination, Kilimanjaro Safari, Expedition Everest, and tons of others. None of those had themes that were connected to anything already known as Disney. Heck, Tower of Terror isn't even a "Disney" property, but is incredibly popular. But, once they appeared in our theme parks, they became Disney. What do they all have in common? They are high quality attractions, regardless of whether or not they were themed to something that already existed in a Disney property.

EPCOT isn't any more or less Disney than any of their properties. By your argument, the Maelstrom ride in Norway at EPCOT has been "Disney" for a lot longer than Frozen has been "Disney."

EPCOT is the third most visited theme park in the United States, and sixth in the world. I'm not sure I would say that Disney theme park fans have no interest in going to EPCOT. By the numbers, I would say that EPCOT does incredibly well with guests.

If you instead mean that guests have no interest in themed entertainment that doesn't connect one of Disney's animated features...well, that is a different conversation, but I make the same argument.

I think you may need to re-read my posts.

 

[Admiral01]

I think you may need to re-read my posts.

Yep...I didn't realize who I was responding to when I responded...I was using my iPhone and not paying attention to the details...

My apologies.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Well, it makes about as much sense as putting Aladdin into Morocco! <grin>

Apparently if you look at the original Aladdin story, the Cave of Wonders is somewhere in North Africa while Aladdin and the kingdom are based in China, so it's not just Disney pulling a "What's the closest thing to the Middle East we got here?"

 

[englanddg]

Apparently if you look at the original Aladdin story, the Cave of Wonders is somewhere in North Africa while Aladdin and the kingdom are based in China, so it's not just Disney pulling a "What's the closest thing to the Middle East we got here?"

You do know Aladdin and Jasmine have a meet and greet in Morocco?

 

[novawildcat18]

You do know Aladdin and Jasmine have a meet and greet in Morocco?

That's what he's getting at. A part of Aladdin's story takes place in North Africa (where Morocco is located), therefore somewhat justifying the meet and greet.

I still don't think that's nearly enough justification. But that's the point Tahu is trying to make, I believe.

 

[Surge38]

I'm sure I may take heat for this, and I know this point has been alluded to already in this thread, but...

As a parent taking my 7 and 2 year old daughters to Disney, I have to say the world showcase was a tough sell for them.

In fact this past trip (end of Feb) we had to skip the vast majority of the countries, because our little ones we getting antsy. The countries we were able to keep them happy in? Mexico (3 Caballeros) and Norway (Frozen and Maelstrom)

The ONLY thing that might have helped us see more pavilions was the promise that we would look for Snow White and Jasmine. Unfortunately, it started to rain, so we knew they wouldn't be out. So me and DW sadly gave up on World showcase entirely for this trip.

Honestly, as a little kid, I loved Future world, and Mexico and Norway because of the rides. The other countries would hold my attention for a little bit, but it soon became a struggle to balance my parents' desire to shop and experience the pavilions, and us kids' desire for rides and characters to stave off boredom.

Honestly, I respect the desire to keep the themeing pure in EPCOT...but while a 4+ hour shopping tour around the World showcase Lagoon is heaven for me and my wife...it's not so much for the little ones. Inclusion of established Disney Characters where APPROPRIATE helps us still do that...and might just help draw the kids into the fun as well.

 

[Matt_Black]

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of World Showcase. It is not for people to learn about the countries. It is for people to learn enough about the countries to get them to actually go and visit. World Showcase is very much a commercial for the various tourist boards. And if cartoon characters help sell the country on people, as Brave did with Scotland, then why not? Certainly, Norway's tourism board is optimistic, and they've already seen increased interest thanks to the movie.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

I'm sure I may take heat for this, and I know this point has been alluded to already in this thread, but...

As a parent taking my 7 and 2 year old daughters to Disney, I have to say the world showcase was a tough sell for them.

In fact this past trip (end of Feb) we had to skip the vast majority of the countries, because our little ones we getting antsy. The countries we were able to keep them happy in? Mexico (3 Caballeros) and Norway (Frozen and Maelstrom)

The ONLY thing that might have helped us see more pavilions was the promise that we would look for Snow White and Jasmine. Unfortunately, it started to rain, so we knew they wouldn't be out. So me and DW sadly gave up on World showcase entirely for this trip.

Honestly, as a little kid, I loved Future world, and Mexico and Norway because of the rides. The other countries would hold my attention for a little bit, but it soon became a struggle to balance my parents' desire to shop and experience the pavilions, and us kids' desire for rides and characters to stave off boredom.

Honestly, I respect the desire to keep the themeing pure in EPCOT...but while a 4+ hour shopping tour around the World showcase Lagoon is heaven for me and my wife...it's not so much for the little ones. Inclusion of established Disney Characters where APPROPRIATE helps us still do that...and might just help draw the kids into the fun as well.

* gives that heat *

An haute cuisine meal is no fun for a two and a seven year old to sit through either. This is no reason for V&A to replace their menu with chicken and fries.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm sure I may take heat for this, and I know this point has been alluded to already in this thread, but...

As a parent taking my 7 and 2 year old daughters to Disney, I have to say the world showcase was a tough sell for them.

In fact this past trip (end of Feb) we had to skip the vast majority of the countries, because our little ones we getting antsy. The countries we were able to keep them happy in? Mexico (3 Caballeros) and Norway (Frozen and Maelstrom)

The ONLY thing that might have helped us see more pavilions was the promise that we would look for Snow White and Jasmine. Unfortunately, it started to rain, so we knew they wouldn't be out. So me and DW sadly gave up on World showcase entirely for this trip.

Honestly, as a little kid, I loved Future world, and Mexico and Norway because of the rides. The other countries would hold my attention for a little bit, but it soon became a struggle to balance my parents' desire to shop and experience the pavilions, and us kids' desire for rides and characters to stave off boredom.

Honestly, I respect the desire to keep the themeing pure in EPCOT...but while a 4+ hour shopping tour around the World showcase Lagoon is heaven for me and my wife...it's not so much for the little ones. Inclusion of established Disney Characters where APPROPRIATE helps us still do that...and might just help draw the kids into the fun as well.

Characters like you're talking about aren't really appropriate for EPCOT at all. They've tried to shoehorn them in, but it's just the equivalent of putting a piece of chewing gum on a leaky dam (instead of addressing and correcting the REAL problem in a way that is appropriate). The park wasn't originally designed for Disney characters and its best years are the olde times where it didn't have or need them (and where adding them in would actually hurt more than help it).

There are ways to make an entertaining EPCOT that appeals to even kids without resorting to shoehorned characters, they are simply ignoring those ways and going to cheap route. Future World before the massive screw up in the 90's had appeal for ALL ages and genders. And in the case of the original Imagination, they created extremely successful kid friendly NEW characters completely original to the park without even using previously established characters.

EPCOT is very much in need of massive reworking at this point. Both halves need massive restructuring and expansion, and there no longer exists the quadruple mega force of four spectacular and fantastic E tickets on the Future World side to help offset the lack of rides in World Showcase (only Spaceship Earth remains in a somewhat crippled state from the original roster). Few people are going to deny that the park needs major expansion and reworking. But adding Disney characters to everything is NOT the right solution and will just further ruin EPCOT's already tarnished identity. With regards to at least Future World, there didn't used to be a problem with selling the park to kids because the rides were all absolutely fantastic on their own (to pretty much everyone of all ages). They didn't need Disney characters to sell nostalgia, they were just great original stand alone experiences. Even the ones that weren't geared specifically towards kids were still highly enjoyed by young audiences. But now they just shoehorn in meet in greets from Disney movies and harm the identity of the place, instead of spending any decent money and ingenuity expanding the park logically with new original rides. And that's the problem- The character push is a poor substitute for actually spending money on building legitimately great new rides (not to mention tearing down classics that didn't need to be destroyed and replacing them with inferior ones).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the purpose of World Showcase. It is not for people to learn about the countries. It is for people to learn enough about the countries to get them to actually go and visit. World Showcase is very much a commercial for the various tourist boards. And if cartoon characters help sell the country on people, as Brave did with Scotland, then why not? Certainly, Norway's tourism board is optimistic, and they've already seen increased interest thanks to the movie.

The "good enough" attitude is ade pressing, recent phenomenon. The EPCOT Center never would have been built if that was the original attitude.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Personally I hope that at the American pavilion they replace Mark Twain with Miley Twerk, a toon version of Miley Cyrus, as she guides us to the Twerk Adventure, the history of twerking that replaced the AA.

After all, Miley Cyrus is a Disney artist, and twerking is an American invention, so it makes for a great thematic fit. Oh, and think of the tweens, for whom WS must hold appeal too.

 

[englanddg]

I'm sure I may take heat for this, and I know this point has been alluded to already in this thread, but...

As a parent taking my 7 and 2 year old daughters to Disney, I have to say the world showcase was a tough sell for them.

In fact this past trip (end of Feb) we had to skip the vast majority of the countries, because our little ones we getting antsy. The countries we were able to keep them happy in? Mexico (3 Caballeros) and Norway (Frozen and Maelstrom)

The ONLY thing that might have helped us see more pavilions was the promise that we would look for Snow White and Jasmine. Unfortunately, it started to rain, so we knew they wouldn't be out. So me and DW sadly gave up on World showcase entirely for this trip.

Honestly, as a little kid, I loved Future world, and Mexico and Norway because of the rides. The other countries would hold my attention for a little bit, but it soon became a struggle to balance my parents' desire to shop and experience the pavilions, and us kids' desire for rides and characters to stave off boredom.

Honestly, I respect the desire to keep the themeing pure in EPCOT...but while a 4+ hour shopping tour around the World showcase Lagoon is heaven for me and my wife...it's not so much for the little ones. Inclusion of established Disney Characters where APPROPRIATE helps us still do that...and might just help draw the kids into the fun as well.

Geez, imagine if they had to visit the real countries and realize that not everything in France is themed to Beauty and the Beast.

 

[Surge38]

* gives that heat *

An haute cuisine meal is no fun for a two and a seven year old to sit through either. This is no reason for V&A to replace their menu with chicken and fries.

True enough...but perhaps if they ADDED Chicken and fries to the menu for kids, so that the Parents could have what THEY wanted? A happy medium?

 

[englanddg]

True enough...but perhaps if they ADDED Chicken and fries to the menu for kids, so that the Parents could have what THEY wanted? A happy medium?

No, not a happy medium.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Personally I hope that at the American pavilion they replace Mark Twain with Miley Twerk, a toon version of Miley Cyrus, as she guides us to the Twerk Adventure, the history of twerking that replaced the AA.

After all, Miley Cyrus is a Disney artist, and twerking is an American invention, so it makes for a great thematic fit. Oh, and think of the tweens, for whom WS must hold appeal too.

I try not to hate any entertainer. Because after all, all we know of them is what we see up on the screen, and what we see is, basically, fake. But god DANG Miley Cyrus is gross. Just a horrid creature. Madonna is provocative. Lady Gaga is outrageous. But Miley is gross. Sad. Pathetic. Laughable. Revolting. No socially redeeming value whatsoever. Pitiable. Whew. Vent over.

 

[Surge38]

Geez, imagine if they had to visit the real countries and realize that not everything in France is themed to Beauty and the Beast.

Well, that's just it. I wouldn't take my 2 and 7 year olds to France, and think they would enjoy it as much as me.

PLEASE don't get me wrong...on our honeymoon we adored the World showcase. I'm just saying i personally don't feel that Belle reading a book in front of France cripples the experience for me...and if it give my daughters a reason to be excited to be there, so much the better.

I also agree that previous versions of Epcot were much better suited to a wide age range...and I think the addition of Donald and friends ruined that ride...But Is just the idea of using characters kids know and love to get them interested in their country of origin really so objectionable?

I mean, Snow White was a germanic fairy tale, right? How is Snow White any less part of the German culture than any of the other things in that pavilion?

 

[Surge38]

No, not a happy medium.

Ok, never let it be said that I'm adverse to new ideas or solutions different from my own... How would you improve the "all ages appeal" of World showcase, given the opportunity?

 

[englanddg]

Well, that's just it. I wouldn't take my 2 and 7 year olds to France, and think they would enjoy it as much as me.

PLEASE don't get me wrong...on our honeymoon we adored the World showcase. I'm just saying i personally don't feel that Belle reading a book in front of France cripples the experience for me...and if it give my daughters a reason to be excited to be there, so much the better.

I also agree that previous versions of Epcot was much better suited to a wide age range. But for world showcase it has always been a bit of an issue. Is using characters kids know and love to get them interested in their country of origin really so objectionable?

No, and you have it backwards, for the EPCOT purists (like me)...

I don't care what characters they put into World Showcase.

I care what they do with Futureworld, which they have completely destroyed.

But, if you want to know why it's a bad idea? EPCOT is supposed to be a slice of experience for someone without spending all the money it takes to actually visit those locals. The more they dilute that experience, the more they dilute the park as a whole.

And, if you want to know why it is so personal...EPCOT insipired me. I spent many a summer there wandering the park, and learning...not in World Showcase, but in Futureworld. I appreciated the World Showcase because it reminded me that, while I am American, and not all the world is American...

I don't have an issue with integrating a character with a pavilion in a limited manner. I do have an issue with removing the cultural experiences because "your kid seems restless".

 

[The Empress Lilly]

True enough...but perhaps if they ADDED Chicken and fries to the menu for kids, so that the Parents could have what THEY wanted? A happy medium?

I thoroughly enjoyed my theme park visit with a four year old girl last week. But I also quickly learned that well over half the park was not for her. And that was okay.

WDW wasn't intended for young kids everywhere, all the time. For one, that would prevent kids from growing up there. A kid progresses from singing dolls in Small World, to scary animals at the Jungle Cruise, to the darkness of Pirates, to the first time steering a car itself on the Speedway, to being tall enough for Splash, to the scary adventures of Snow White. And then on to eduspiriational FW pavilions, and learning about the world in WS. A two, four or seven year old doesn't have to like everything at once. Kids grow into it.

For me toddlerfication ruins the fun for older kids and adults. WS can no more exist as a classic Disney quality park when half turned into a toddler toon park than V&A can exist as a haute cuisine experience when serving fish fingers and fries to kids waiting for Cinderella to come to their table.

 

[novawildcat18]

Well, that's just it. I wouldn't take my 2 and 7 year olds to France, and think they would enjoy it as much as me.

PLEASE don't get me wrong...on our honeymoon we adored the World showcase. I'm just saying i personally don't feel that Belle reading a book in front of France cripples the experience for me...and if it give my daughters a reason to be excited to be there, so much the better.

I also agree that previous versions of Epcot was much better suited to a wide age range. But for world showcase it has always been a bit of an issue. Is using characters kids know and love to get them interested in their country of origin really so objectionable?

Agree with this statement so much. I was just too lazy to make a long post about it. But I don't see the harm in adding characters who originate from these countries. I don't approve of a Frozen-takeover of Norway, that's not what it should be about. Nor the confusing placement of Aladdin in Morocco. But a Belle meet and greet on the side of the France pavilion? Absolutely! Why not? If you don't want to meet her, don't meet her.