Frozen Ever After opening day

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
The MK was not a new concept, and WDW was planned to be a massive crowd handler. So to say 'absolutely no idea no idea how many guests one day would be walking through the gates' is excuses, not facts. The park was built as the successor to the insanely successful DL. Yet, they built the attraction as they did.

Pooh? It was limited by footprint.. not anything else. And in DLR, where they had the CBJ to work with.. its roughly the same.

When was the last time Disney built a 2000+hr attraction? I think Everest was the last high volume attraction.

A 1000+ attraction isn't the blunder people think it is.. because they are looking at OPENING WEEK.. sheez.

If the alternative was keeping Malestrom... which no one gave a hoot about...
Thank you for your use of logic here. I think it's great how you point out that no one cared about Maelstrom at the end of your post. Even on these boards, it seems like most of the "love" for it came out of either nostalgia or FEA being a poor fit for the area rather than its actually quality.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Having better capacity than dark rides like Peter Pan's Flight or Pooh isn't exactly an amazing accomplishment. Peter Pan opened in 1971 at a time when Disney had absolutely no idea how many guests would one day be walking through the gates. Pooh was placed in the same ride building that used to be occupied by Mr. Toad so was similarly restricted. Please, don't even bother brining up rides like Dumbo or the Carousel. I'll just laugh. This is 2016. Disney should know how to build proper capacity for a ride that's anticipated to be very popular. Oh wait, they do.
tokyodisney-frozen-500x267.jpg

Let's not forget that Disney saw a need for increased capacity at Soarin' and TSMM.

Who has the numbers for Shanghai's version of Peter Pan out of curiosity?
Honestly, I'm not sure how well the transition is going to work for the Frozen/Scandinavian port between Port Discovery and Lost River Delta. I fear that the future of DisneySea will see the inevitable character deterioration we're seeing in Epcot.
 

shortstop

Well-Known Member
When was the last time Disney built a 2000+hr attraction? I think Everest was the last high volume attraction.
Some would argue this in and of itself is a problem. Not only have they have not built a lot of rides in the last decade and a half or so, but many of the ones they HAVE built have been low capacity, when what the parks need are some people eaters.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I've been told that any fan with two brain cells to rub together told them this was a dumb idea. Imagineering has hundreds of disciplines, executives love to look at numbers. How come the combined brain power can't figure out that a new ride based on the highest grossing animated movie of all time might need more than 1200 people per hour?
The answer is simple. Because the executives wanted a Frozen attraction up asap, they had no choice but to put the ride into an existing space. This is the knee jerk way TWDC has put a lot of plans into motion in recent years and I wouldn't blame the Imagineers for it.
 
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WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to think like Bob Iger, since he still calls the shots. He is very particular about which IPs are used. I don't see Ratatouille coming to America, regardless of how good the ride is.
I don't see the IP coming, but I would speculate that ride system or a variation may make an appearance in Florida. . .
 

Kate F

Well-Known Member
The answer is simple. Because the executives wanted a Frozen attraction up asap, they had not choice to put the ride into an existing space. This is the knee jerk way TWDC has put a lot of plans into motion in recent years and I wouldn't blame the Imagineers for it.
You don't think they could have built a whole new ride in the amount of time this took?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Thank you for your use of logic here. I think it's great how you point out that no one cared about Maelstrom at the end of your post. Even on these boards, it seems like most of the "love" for it came out of either nostalgia or FEA being a poor fit for the area rather than its actually quality.

Let's be honest.. no one really loved Maelstrom (well.. there are always corner cases). People today seem to forget it was one of the biggest letdowns back in the day because of all the oo and ahh about the backwards flume and drop.. when it was really nothing to write home about at all. Most people didn't connect with the ride's actual message and vision.. which.. is very Norweigan in both delivery and message.. and when you LISTEN to the narrator it actually is very authentic to what they convey.. it just doesn't doesn't work for the mob.

It was a tired attraction that was a letdown from the begining.. sponsorship had faded.. and it (as it should) would have been on the block for change.

All the emotion over FEA is about FEA itself... in that its 1) Frozen 2) Doesn't fit the EPCOT blueprint and 3) Doesn't represent the pavilion at all, so further damaging #2.

I think its important for people to remember the noise is more about FEA.. and not about what was before it. As for building huge people eaters... let's not fool ourselves into believing this topic is unique to FEA and a new choice by Disney. Clearly achieving these high rider counts has not been a mandate of Disney across the board...

Given the crap handed to them... I think FEA is largely very impressive. My critques are not bogged down in the grander politics.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
You don't think they could have built a whole new ride in the amount of time this took?
Judging by how long Disney takes, it would've taken twice as long for them to get a new show building up in Fantasyland. Getting this thing up within two years of Maelstrom's closure is incredibly speedy by their standards.
 

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Let's be honest.. no one really loved Maelstrom (well.. there are always corner cases). People today seem to forget it was one of the biggest letdowns back in the day because of all the oo and ahh about the backwards flume and drop.. when it was really nothing to write home about at all. Most people didn't connect with the ride's actual message and vision.. which.. is very Norweigan in both delivery and message.. and when you LISTEN to the narrator it actually is very authentic to what they convey.. it just doesn't doesn't work for the mob.

It was a tired attraction that was a letdown from the begining.. sponsorship had faded.. and it (as it should) would have been on the block for change.

All the emotion over FEA is about FEA itself... in that its 1) Frozen 2) Doesn't fit the EPCOT blueprint and 3) Doesn't represent the pavilion at all, so further damaging #2.

I think its important for people to remember the noise is more about FEA.. and not about what was before it. As for building huge people eaters... let's not fool ourselves into believing this topic is unique to FEA and a new choice by Disney. Clearly achieving these high rider counts has not been a mandate of Disney across the board...

Given the crap handed to them... I think FEA is largely very impressive. My critques are not bogged down in the grander politics.
Again, a perfectly stated. Maelstrom definitely should be remembered as a let down by most people's standards. It was certainly one of the worst Disney attractions of all time in my book. And while I agree with points of others that this didn't fit the EPCOT blueprint and would've been a much better fit for MK, I, like you, do not let that cloud my vision from seeing all of the great things this attraction has to offer.
 
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aladdin2007

Well-Known Member
Again, a perfectly stated. Maelstrom definitely should be remembered as a let down by most people's standards. It was certainly one of the worst Disney attractions of all time in my book. And while I agree with points of others that this didn't fit the EPCOT blueprint and would've been a much better fit for MK, I, like you, do not let that cloud my vision from seeing all of the great things this attraction has to offer.

It was not a let down for its time, its just its time had come and it needed a redo, granted they should have gone with the redo originally slated for it but they didnt and frozen is here to stay. But not everyone thought it was a let down sorry nor should it be remembered as one!
 

mimitchi33

Well-Known Member
Oh, is there a Frozen ride in Tokyo? No? ;)
They plan on building a new ride for Frozen there, along with Beauty and the Beast and Big Hero 6.
Did Frozen Ever after this morning.
  • Parked at 8:25
  • Got in line at the main entrance at 8:35
  • Got into Epcot at 8:45
  • Got to Norway at about 8:55. About five minutes before that I saw a throng of poeple being held at the bridge to Mexico let into the world showcase. A good strategy here would have been to arrive 15 minutes earlier, cut across the lagoon to Odessy and then meet up at the head of the throng.
  • Stood in line for 15 to 20 minutes outside, entering the building at exactly 9:15. Ride operating normally. The began filling the que at 8:50, but did not load anyone until 9am. (they were telling us this outside)
  • Waited another 35 minutes inside and got on at 9:50, give or take a couple of minutes. Oddly during the entire process almost ZERO fast pass guest came through. I counted Maybe 10 totally. Not sure why, I assumed the first 30 minuted did not have fast past times. I really expected to see fast pass start to build at 9:30, and one family of five came in and I thought "here it goes, the stand by is going to slow to a crawl...." but that was it. early there had been another group of five who after some arguement with the fast pass attendant, were let into the line.
Anyway, not to bad, next time I would get parked 10-15 minutes earlier.
Sounds like you had fun despite all those hiccups.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
The MK was not a new concept, and WDW was planned to be a massive crowd handler. So to say 'absolutely no idea no idea how many guests one day would be walking through the gates' is excuses, not facts. The park was built as the successor to the insanely successful DL. Yet, they built the attraction as they did.

Pooh? It was limited by footprint.. not anything else. And in DLR, where they had the CBJ to work with.. its roughly the same.

When was the last time Disney built a 2000+hr attraction? I think Everest was the last high volume attraction.

A 1000+ attraction isn't the blunder people think it is.. because they are looking at OPENING WEEK.. sheez.

If the alternative was keeping Malestrom... which no one gave a hoot about...
Yes they expected crowds but do you think they expected the estimated 20 million people a year that crowd MK these days? That was my point.

I think it's fair to say that both rides in Star Wars Land will be fairly high capacity so at least they're being smart with that one. Maybe Flight of Passage will be as well due to the use of four theaters but that remains to be seen.

The alternative I would've wanted was if Maelstrom got the same kind of update that FEA brought but fitting of the pavilion and that we would've gotten the same ride as TDS and DL in either MK or DHS. No one is saying Maelstrom should've stayed as is. It was time for an update just like the numerous other attractions in Epcot that need one.

I like the ride but there are problems with the decisions that led to it.
Honestly, I'm not sure how well the transition is going to work for the Frozen/Scandinavian port between Port Discovery and Lost River Delta. I fear that the future of DisneySea will see the inevitable character deterioration we're seeing in Epcot.
Haven't characters always been there? I mean, they've had Little Mermaid land (Mermaid Lagoon) since day 1 and Aladdin as a part of Arabian Coast. I'm sure the transition will be done well.
They plan on building a new ride for Frozen there, along with Beauty and the Beast and Big Hero 6.
Meh, BH6 is just a flat ride. Same one as Mater and Buzz. Their addition of Soarin' would be the better mention over that. Or the still only rumored Alice ride that'll be shared with Shanghai.
 

yepitsandy

Active Member
I loved Maelstrom for what it was... the only non-alcoholic thrill in World Showcase. The only reason it even had the waits it did was because it was the only "thrill" ride, if it even qualifies as that, in the WS. Besides the boats in Mexico, it was the only ride period in the Showcase. It was cheesy and I loved it for that.

However, I'm not sad to see it go. While loosely based, yes, I'm okay with Frozen being there. I'm also not bothered by characters in World Showcase, so I'm disqualified as a "true fan" in the eyes of many, sorry.

It's the first few weeks, I expect insane lines and I expect issues to happen. However, there's time to work on that and I think we will see both get worked on. Capacity won't go up, no, but the kinks and freezing up - at least non-ice related freezing - can be worked out a bit.

It's not that hard of a fix though... if they spend the money. Upgrade Journey. Upgrade UoE. Make something an attraction that eats some of those people in line. Even do something else in the World Showcase, maybe on the other end, to actually draw lines. It's crazy, but it would help.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
I keep hearing about this capacity thing yet the ride that they are using was designed and built when Disney was considered to be at it's high point.
Maelstrom was not designed to be high capacity. Your other examples were.

The big six:

Spaceship Earth 2400
Energy 1930
Horizons 2660
World of Motion 3240
Journey into Imagination 2240
Listen to the Land 2445

Maelstrom could just about do 1400 with all boats fully loaded. As we know 11 boats pushed the system too much and boats couldn't be fully loaded as time went on due to.... guest size. So its THRC dropped.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Maelstrom was not designed to be high capacity. Your other examples were.

The big six:

Spaceship Earth 2400
Energy 1930
Horizons 2660
World of Motion 3240
Journey into Imagination 2240
Listen to the Land 2445

Maelstrom could just about do 1400 with all boats fully loaded. As we know 11 boats pushed the system too much and boats couldn't be fully loaded as time went on due to.... guest size. So its THRC dropped.
Out of curiosity what's the capacity for recent large scale rides opened around the world like Grizzly Mountain, Mystic Manor, Ratatouille, Shanghai Pirates, etc.?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Maelstrom was not designed to be high capacity. Your other examples were.

The big six:

Spaceship Earth 2400
Energy 1930
Horizons 2660
World of Motion 3240
Journey into Imagination 2240
Listen to the Land 2445

Maelstrom could just about do 1400 with all boats fully loaded. As we know 11 boats pushed the system too much and boats couldn't be fully loaded as time went on due to.... guest size. So its THRC dropped.
I do know that Martin, my point was that even back then they did indeed build low capacity rides. The puzzlement was how did they know that Maelstrom was going to be a less then highly popular ride. They actually built two on that side with Mexico and Norway were everything else in the park was huge.

Can you imagine the outcry today if one park had out of the 11 rides in Epcot there were 5 Omni-rides, counting Seas, 3 boat rides and the 1 oddball (Energy) I'm not sure what to call that. Now if everything isn't a brand new concept then they are just being lazy. Then came Seas with the saddest of all omni's, length wise, Wonders of Life with the simulator... that was pretty crowded when it first opened, but, I suspect that the capacity was fairly good. They had three or four simulators in that didn't they? And, of course the shows with pretty massive seating and, in the case of Canada, standing areas. France being the smallest, but still a pretty good size. Let's not forget Cranium Command and Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks both in small rooms. Especially CC. I often wonder how they made those decisions back then.
 

BernardandBianca

Well-Known Member
Went on FEA this afternoon, with a FP that I reserved last week. Took a total of 15 minutes from scanning the FP at the entry to getting on the boat. Not too bad (standby was listed as 130 minutes). As to the ride itself, that engendered a complete "meh"! The SO and me discussed this, and agreed that for a 15 minute wait, that was acceptable. For anything else, nope, will not do. I realize a lot of people like the actual ride, but we didn't and that is just based on the ride itself and has nothing to do with its location. Granted we did not ride with a 6 year old girl (the granddaughter), but to us, the ride itself is worse than the seven short people in MK,.
 

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