Frozen Ever After opening day

Disney Analyst

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Wikkler said:
Haunted Mansion has no IP. Splash has its IP as Song of the South, and you know what's not-so-Disney there. Pirates doesn't have enough Johnny Depp for a brand addict to enjoy it. So, Frozen, because it's more "Disney", trumps them. This is the logic of The Magic Fan.
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If you read the article, outside of the title, i'm pretty sure it states at the end "Best ride in the past decade" the title is just click-bait guys..
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
JediMasterMatt said:
I hereby nominate Frozen Watch 2016 as WDWMagic’s best new activity, since well… how long has it been since something worthwhile opened around the Resort? This is certainly great “grabs popcorn” reading.

To add a bit of spice to the discussion, I want to chime in with the following comment: Frozen Ever After is exactly what’s wrong with WDW these days; but, at the same time – it’s exactly what is needed.

First and foremost, it’s wrong in many more ways than it’s right – so let me get the negatives (which are well known and documented) off the table before the controversial comment of it being exactly what the resort needs.

- Most certainly, the theme/IP is in the wrong park, let alone a far less egregious being an attraction in the wrong part of any given park. Cartoon/animated based attractions run counter to the vision of EPCOT Center and the even more nearsighted Epcot. Its placement therein is another harbinger of the current mismanagement of the entire resort (and too an extent of Disney Parks in general).

- It’s far too popular of a theme/IP to be overlayed into an RV system that can’t support via its native capacity the demand that will be placed on it. This is indicative of the lack of concern over the guest and Cast Member’s satisfaction. The desire to get the product out to the masses as inexpensively as possible outweighed common sense over the scale for demand absolutely crushing the lack of supply.

- The attractions supply v. demand woes magnifying the inherent failures of MyMagic+/FastPass+. The whole MM+ house of cards is based on the concept of maximizing the belief the guest has more control over their stay and is getting more value for something they didn’t pay for. It only works if guests can actually “do what they want” during their visit and the reality of that falls apart if “what they want” has no availability to them. An insanely popular attraction has insanely popular demand and if the attraction in question has limited availability to begin with, nobody gets “what they want”. Guests can’t prebook a FP+ and guests that couldn’t get a FP, and then are faced with even longer standby queues. Since FP+ only works if it can steer guests from the popular to the attractions that are not, magically turning “unpopular/short queue wait” Maelstrom into “insanely popular/horrific queue wait” Frozen exacerbated the problem further. Congrats TDO, you successfully took one of EPCOT’s pressure release valves offline to make it vital artery.

- Not doing soft openings before letting guests prebook FP+ times prevents any opportunity to get issues resolved before the Mouse makes promises it can’t hope to keep (getting all those FP people onboard). This is a byproduct of the penny pinching/budget conscious route that most WDW construction projects head down. There is no reason why this attraction should have taken this long to gestate in construction. The original target was very early 2016 and there is a good reason why Disney Parks use to try to get things to soft open during the off seasons – to prevent the mess we are seeing now.

- The lack of ambition in deciding to go for a quick overlay to an existing underutilized attraction that has poor capacity will likely hinder the park and the resort for years to come.​

I’m sure I can think of more wrongs that Frozen Ever After symbolizes; but, there are a couple of things that it is getting really, really right and one of them is exactly what WDW needs to turn the ship around.

- The quality of the attraction is very good (when you factor out all the negatives above). Perhaps, the quality is even “too good” for its own measure. The demand for the attraction now on display will run counter to the entire shortcoming above. Everyone wants to do this attraction now as it hits all the pulse points of why people go to WDW in the first place.

- Most important of all… the Frozen Ever After exercise is exactly what WDW needs IF Disney Parks simply chooses to make the exact opposite decisions on all of the key detractors I listed above as the Maelstrom to Frozen conversion does something that WDW has done very, very little of over the course of the last decade+… pruning.​

WDW’s biggest problem in recent years has been stagnation. Bad decisions keep festering as natural guest attrition to the current Resort lineup changes. No matter how short of a FP+ return time you offer them, steering a someone to an attraction that nobody wants to experience will never be successful. While we all love going to WDW to revisit our “favorites” anyone can see how little has changed. Dead wood remains. Maelstrom’s life change is something that should’ve been done long ago. Should it have changed into a cartoon ride – of course not; but, something should have been done to make people want to queue up for it. The same thing should be done to countless attractions and facilities around the resort. EPCOT has a whole roster of stagnate rides and buildings that are just waiting for their chance to go into chrysalis and become a beautiful butterfly again. Every attraction and resource around the resort can and should be ripe for doing this; but, time and time again – TDO steps in and pumps the brakes. Change at the resort has become a painful and laborious process. It didn’t use to be this way. For the first couple of decades, everything was in motion constantly. WDW needs to gain its momentum again; but, like inertia – an object at rest tends to stay at rest.

So, while Frozenstrom does so many things wrong… more of this effort is needed around the resort. Of course, it’s the same place that still hasn’t gotten those Pan enhancements… or Space 2.0… etc, etc.
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https://twitter.com/IsFrozenDown
 
D

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Evan-500 said:
I'm by no means advocating people stop discussing or moving on. I was simply trying to put into words what I think a lot of these commenters point is. I'm mostly trying to be a mediator, as I have no position in this at all.

I can see both sides clear as day, but I'm also a pragmatist in a sense... We've discussed this for almost what, 2 years? There has to be a point where people don't need to say "Great ride, WRONG LOCATION". It just seems obvious, we know.

But this is a discussion board, and people can discuss the same points until the world ends, it doesn't matter. I was just interjecting my angle, or my understanding of the angle that others are taking.
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I would also point out that there are plenty of threads that are perfect for discussing the location of the ride. It would be good to have a thread dedicated to the details of the ride itself and discussing the fall of Epcot in one of the myriad of other threads.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Yes.... they do.
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They are used for internal purposes, but, even the ones that they do are used by people that never were involved with it when it was legit and meant anything other then... let's make sure we make extra money on these. Today we might even call it the actual tier system. A way of ranking on popularity. It's like so many people visiting Epcot will say that "tomorrow were going to go to WDW" when we know that they are talking about MK. They aren't wrong, just not specific enough. There cannot be "E" Tickets rides when there are no tickets. I have never heard Disney publicly call anything new, anything other then "E" ticket when it is used at all. Which is seldom. It may still be a measure of something, but, it is based on different things depending on who you talk too. I'd even bet that there are millions out there that have never heard of it at all and has absolutely no meaning to them. It is not solidly definable anymore. Not to mention that it was a judgement call when it was in use.

It boils down to this... if you think that it is an "E" then it is an "E". It is totally subjective. If I like something a lot, even you, will not convince me that it is a "C" or a "D". Why? Because even you, a person that I trust with Disney history, still has your own personal taste and biases toward things that are Disney based on how you think they should be. If you didn't you wouldn't be the unofficial historian. What Disney used to be is a nice memory, but, I'm not sure it would even work in the world as it is now. It has absolutely no significance or meaning to the average guest that doesn't have a list of ratings based on those letters. It's like the "Flying Circus" Parrot sketch. It's a dead bird... It has passed... It is no more, in any official public sense.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
They are used for internal purposes, but, even the ones that they do are used by people that never were involved with it when it was legit and meant anything..
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Im afraid you're wrong. With respect.

The designations are in use today, by the very people who are designing these attractions. The boat ride is called a C ticket. The simulator an E. Not just designated, named. They are referred to as "the C ticket" and "the E ticket" by those designing them.

Steve will kill us for going so far OT but I thought it important this was cleared up.
 
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Donaldfan1934

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Wikkler said:
There are several types of theme park tourists.
The Rides Fan
You know these people. Many of us belong here. Enjoyment of a theme park = enjoyment of rides. Most have a favorite type of ride that they either mostly or exclusively ride (thrill rides being the most common)
I'd say about 70% of theme park tourists fall in this category. More like 50% at WDW because of
The Magic Fan
Comes to WDW for the magic. Probably what that reviewer belongs in. Similar to the Rides Fan but usually prefers dark rides, spinners, and familiar stories. Is a sucker for songs from the movie.
The Party Animal
Favorite park: Epcot.
Favorite activities: Yelling on roller coasters, making obscene gestures at ride cameras, trying to find bars at Magic Kingdom, being at bars at Epcot, not being at Animal Kingdom, climbing pyramids.
The Lifestyler
I'm not discussing this type.
The Theme Fan
The rarest type. Believe in the integrity of theme parks as an art form. Talk about weenies, forced perspective, and berms. Marvel at the genius of Disney's international parks. Don't believe Frozen should be in an educational pavilion about the country of Norway. Often post on forums about theme parks about the different types of theme park tourists.

Go to Universal more than Disney even though Disney still does environments better.
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Perfectly stated. I'd say I'm primarily a Theme Fan. I think the influence of that perspective is clear in my comments.
 
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jrogue

jrogue

Well-Known Member
donsullivan said:
I thought when I looked at the thread I'd get information about the attraction and experiences from open day. What I ended up finding was the same people with the same whining they've been doing for 2 years now. I guess half my complaint is this stuff clutters every single thread and nobody can find any actual information any more.

OUT
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But that's exactly what this thread was on opening day. I've followed it from the beginning, and all it was about was the experiences, ride videos, and takes on the ride as well as how obscene the line was, etc. It was all about opening day and anything I could have ever asked to know about it. Of course, now that opening day is DAYS behind us, the thread has changed and is no longer about the opening day, but about the ride operation in general.
 
Donaldfan1934

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Wikkler said:
Haunted Mansion has no IP. Splash has its IP as Song of the South, and you know what's not-so-Disney there. Pirates doesn't have enough Johnny Depp for a brand addict to enjoy it. So, Frozen, because it's more "Disney", trumps them. This is the logic of The Magic Fan.
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if you don't enjoy an attraction because it was an original idea or because the IP its based on is burried and/or forgotten by the modern WDC, then you GET the essence of what Disney is/was at all.
 
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mimefan

mimefan

Member
I got in line at 1:35 for my 1:45-2:45 FastPass today. Was walking out the exit at 2:15. The standby line changed from 120 to 180 before I got into the building (15 minutes in sun, ugh). Heard some cast members saying that the FP folks had priority since so many missed earlier times, explaining the long standby wait, and I guess the relatively long FP wait.

Have to run out to dinner right now, but will give a review after I watch some videos so I'll be able to tell you what was working or not. Unspoiled, I liked the ride and was impressed with the AA's -- kawaii!!! Glad I did the 50 minute drive down there, even for just a couple of hours. Test Track was nearly walkon for single riders. Oh, and it was so hot today I heard more than one CM complaining.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I'm not up to date on my Trolls, but, weren't those trolls in the second scene. You know the one where the little one at the end tells us how lucky we are to be going to the ice castle? And the boats and the swirl. Maybe more in the queue, it was hard to tell from the video.
 
Castle Cake Apologist

Castle Cake Apologist

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I'm not up to date on my Trolls, but, weren't those trolls in the second scene. You know the one where the little one at the end tells us how lucky we are to be going to the ice castle? And the boats and the swirl. Maybe more in the queue, it was hard to tell from the video.
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The trolls are pretty major characters in the film, so they're not a reference to Maelstrom.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
DisneyExpert said:
The trolls are pretty major characters in the film, so they're not a reference to Maelstrom.
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I'll take your word for it because I have never seen the movie, however, that doesn't erase the fact that they are there and they were there, (different family, I guess) in Maelstrom. Oh, and for those that miss the baby polar bear... he's in Soarin' now with his mom. Apparently, they swam across the lagoon and went into Future World. They looked happy!
 

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