Frozen complainers are finally making headlines.

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matt9112

Well-Known Member
An interesting article put out just yesterday by The Economist called --->"Parks of recreation"<--- offers an insightful look into why "Media giants on betting big on the future of theme parks."
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Awww, thank you.

I agree with you to an extent. Disney *was* resting on their laurels but there are many projects in the works right now. Disney is trying to make things right -- well, sort of. LOL.
  • New Soarin' over the World
  • New Frozen Ride, Meet & Greet with expanded pavillion
  • Rivers of Light at AK
  • Night Safari
  • Avatar Land
  • ToyStory Land
  • Star Wars Land
Not to mention, the recent Fantasyland expansion that includes 7DMT, Little Mermaid Ride w/meet & greet, Enchanted Tales w/Belle, Story Book Circus, Two Dumbos, Rethemed Goofy Coaster, BOG, Gaston's Tavern, Caseys Splash area, New Restrooms, etc.

And, the new reimagined Test Track and new interactive queue at Peter Pan.

Wow, that was a lot just to write -- just imagine having to plan, execute and build all that. LOL.


LOL. Nothing, of course. With the exception of your baseball team, I totally love Boston. We met a nice group of people from Boston at Epcot, they were so engaging and funny to where time flew by chatting with them.

No. I didn't get *the* boot -- but, I have all kinds of the most gorgeous boots. I have cowboy boots, riding boots, snow boots, hiking boots, ankle boots, rain boots, etc.

My two favorite pairs of boots are my Burberry Prorsum Aviator Shearling boots, but I just call them my furry berries, lol. They look nice with leggings but I prefer to pair these boots with jeans or long dress pants.
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And, my favorite everyday boots are these Burberry Wallwood Buckle rain boots. They pair great with leggings and basically anything.

And, I have to give a shout out to my curry/turquoise Sorel Joan of Arctic boots, the best for snow. And also, my coloful collection of glossy Hunter boots.

Sorry bro, but I just *love* boots. LOL.

Yes, I believe Maelstrom would have been closed, regardless of the version.

Disney was completely blindsided by the millions of visitors who flocked to the Norway Pavilion in droves and waited upwards of 7+ hours just to meet Anna and Elsa.

I imagine the profit margins for both Norway and World Showcase as a whole were astronomical because of the Frozen frenzy.

And, once Anna and Elsa were relocated to MK -- I imagine the profit margins for all of World Showcase, especially Norway suffered a substantial loss. I believe this is the sole reason for the Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom.

The Frozen Construction thread was the worst thread I have ever seen on this forum, it certainly didn't start out that way. The anti Frozen side was just out of control, anyone who supported Frozen or anything else was attacked and berated. The thread had gotten so dark and negative to where anti Frozen people started fighting and turned on each other, lol. In all my years here, I have *never* seen anything quite like that.

You get no likes and you collect no money you do not pass go.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
AK cannibalized guests from other parks, but the plan was for each park to have an addition around the same time. If I recall it was supposed to be Test Track for Epcot and David Copperfield's Magical Underground at DHS. Not sure what the plan was for MK. That didn't happen, and then a few years later 9/11 happened. Epcot still hasn't rebounded from the opening of Animal Kingdom. The public numbers I've seen show Epcot's peak attendance in 1997 at 11.8 mil and it was 11.454 last year.

As for characters in Epcot, in the early to mid 80s it had classic characters featured in native garb around World Showcase as well as the silver space suit outfits in Future World. I'm on board with this, and I'm on board with a Princess meet and greet facility in Norway or France as well where face character versions of princesses appear in World Showcase. For whatever reason that doesn't irk me as much as a ride based on an inappropriate intellectual property.

My Epcot redesign would keep the Frozen meet and greet facility and expand Epcot Character Spot. Characters aren't going away from Epcot so there needs to be a way to address them where they don't impede on the theme. Other changes would be updating and adding non-IP based additions to Future World, moving, it's a small world to Showcase Plaza, then ultimately removing Nemo and Frozen rides for non-IP based alternatives.
meanwhile MK's attendance skyrocketed, right?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
We often disagree, but this is an excellent and unfortunate point. Cultural sensitivity would never allow World Showcase to be built today. Even as it is, it's mostly European countries that tolerate America and vice/versa. Having said that, I'd be interested to see a Norwegian perspective about what is more offensive, Maelstrom vs. Frozen Ever After, or a Mexican's perspective about whether they're bothered by El Rio Del Tiempo or Gran Fiesta Tour.

I operate largely under the mindset that people will find a reason to be offended about everything and we shouldn't cater to that crowd, but it doesn't mean the debate itself isn't valid.

With that said though, it seems that every World Showcase pavilion attraction attempts to emphasize that the greatness of that particular country is their people. That may be removed entirely from the Norway Pavilion once Frozen Ever After debuts.
As a Mexican I definitively didnt like to see the ride being mostly pinpointed on Donald or the M&H being Donald with a hat.
I dont think you would go to Mexico to meet Americans with a sarape and a hat, right?
 

mimitchi33

Well-Known Member
Wow, even kids hate the idea of the Frozen ride? That's surprising. I had always assume d kids would be happy with anything Frozen related.
If the park was so boring to so many people why did it have higher attendance than modern Epcot? This has been stated here before.

It entertained people while they were being taught. We had Spaceship Earth, Wonders of Life, Horizons...may I mention a ride starring a certain purple dragon that was the most crowded ride at the park back then?
Yes, I believe Maelstrom would have been closed, regardless of the version.

Disney was completely blindsided by the millions of visitors who flocked to the Norway Pavilion in droves and waited upwards of 7+ hours just to meet Anna and Elsa.

I imagine the profit margins for both Norway and World Showcase as a whole were astronomical because of the Frozen frenzy.

And, once Anna and Elsa were relocated to MK -- I imagine the profit margins for all of World Showcase, especially Norway suffered a substantial loss. I believe this is the sole reason for the Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom.
I agree. When Frozen was at EPCOT when the movie came out, MK was less crowded most of the time unless it was a holiday or EMH day, to the point where the wait for most rides there would be 30 minutes or less (save for Peter Pan and Seven Dwarves Mine Train). I believe that this ride will draw in as large of a crowd as the meet and greet did for that reason.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
meanwhile MK's attendance skyrocketed, right?
I have MK's attendance peaking in 1997 at 17,000,000 and surpassing that again in 2007 with 17,060,000
As a Mexican I definitively didnt like to see the ride being mostly pinpointed on Donald or the M&H being Donald with a hat.
I dont think you would go to Mexico to meet Americans with a sarape and a hat, right?
Not that you speak for all Mexicans, but it's a valid point. I always viewed World Showcase as the idealized version of the various cultures. What's ironic, is that we often criticize American Adventure for the white washing of American history to a certain extent yet we would also be appalled if the fallacies of other cultures were a part of their pavilions (although I would consider Tabouleh a fallacy of Morroco).

El Rio del Tiempo had some great rock work, but it was extremely dated. The attraction needed to be improved, probably more so than a 3 month overhaul. I am very much against character infusion, but I would be surprised if Coco isn't the next move for this attraction. If the focus is largely on Dia de los Muertos than it could satisfy the cultural relevancy in a better way than previous character infusions.

Also, Gran Fiesta tour would have had at least a 10 year run at that point.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I have MK's attendance peaking in 1997 at 17,000,000 and surpassing that again in 2007 with 17,060,000

Not that you speak for all Mexicans, but it's a valid point. I always viewed World Showcase as the idealized version of the various cultures. What's ironic, is that we often criticize American Adventure for the white washing of American history to a certain extent yet we would also be appalled if the fallacies of other cultures were a part of their pavilions (although I would consider Tabouleh a fallacy of Morroco).

El Rio del Tiempo had some great rock work, but it was extremely dated. The attraction needed to be improved, probably more so than a 3 month overhaul. I am very much against character infusion, but I would be surprised if Coco isn't the next move for this attraction. If the focus is largely on Dia de los Muertos than it could satisfy the cultural relevancy in a better way than previous character infusions.

Also, Gran Fiesta tour would have had at least a 10 year run at that point.
If they can pull something as beautiful as the book of life. I'm ok with that.
Still, please.. no more Donald!
 

Siren

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't work in the "Customer Servicing Field" so I will leave that to the experts.

The Burberry brand was established in 1856 and is over 160 years old. Burberry is ultra conservative, stylish, and iconic. Their clothing and boots are gorgeous and not hoe boots. Stay on topic for just once. *Once*.

LOL. ***This*** did not cause the Frozen Construction thread to be closed. I never ever posted on that thread because it had gotten so nasty. Honestly, in all my years here, I have never seen a major information and construction thread have to be locked. I mean there were some knock down drag out fights in the Avatarland threads but *nothing* like that. LOL.

I don't ever want to see that happen again.
You get no likes and you collect no money you do not pass go.
Aww, I totally deserve that. The Boston Red Sox is a good team.
I'm confused... Is Siren coming out as a part-time spambot now? o_O
Merlin, in a *Frozen* thread? I can't believe it. I know you will never turn down a chance to take a cheap shot at me but still, you're here. You must be starting to warm up a little to Frozestrom or you've at least come to terms with it -- if so, that's great, Merlin.

Also, The Economist article is not spam, I just thought it was interesting how IP's and media companies are the driving force behind the recent theme park investment boom.

Wow, even kids hate the idea of the Frozen ride? That's surprising. I had always assume d kids would be happy with anything Frozen related.

It entertained people while they were being taught. We had Spaceship Earth, Wonders of Life, Horizons...may I mention a ride starring a certain purple dragon that was the most crowded ride at the park back then?

I agree. When Frozen was at EPCOT when the movie came out, MK was less crowded most of the time unless it was a holiday or EMH day, to the point where the wait for most rides there would be 30 minutes or less (save for Peter Pan and Seven Dwarves Mine Train). I believe that this ride will draw in as large of a crowd as the meet and greet did for that reason.
I never got to experience Wonders of Life, Horizons, Kitchen Kaberet and Figment with Dreamfinder -- those must have been some really amazing experiences. Mr Toad gets brought up a lot here, too.

It's kind of unbelievable to think that Frozen was able to lighten crowds at MK. And, I totally agree with you that it's going to happen again.

I was looking at flynnibus's amazing Shanghai Disney thread and felt bad. But, then I had to put things into perspective. MK opened in 1971, the park is 45 years old and it is still an amazing theme park. It's not fair to compare it to Shanghai.
 
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nerdboyrockstar

Well-Known Member
I don't know if this is NOW the appropriate thread for this but I was just in Disneyland and not once but twice did the opening chord of "Let It Go" illicit groans from the crowd watching both the Disneyland Forever fireworks and the World of Color: Celebrate show. However, both times, the end of their respective Frozen sequences resulted in cheers as they were actually some of the most impressive parts of the show.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
I don't work in the "Customer Servicing Field" so I will leave that to the experts.

The Burberry brand was established in 1856 and is over 160 years old. Burberry is ultra conservative, stylish, and iconic. Their clothing and boots are gorgeous and not hoe boots. Stay on topic for just once. *Once*.

LOL. ***This*** did not cause the Frozen Construction thread to be closed. I never ever posted on that thread because it had gotten so nasty. Honestly, in all my years here, I have never seen a major information and construction thread have to be locked. I mean there were some knock down drag out fights in the Avatarland threads but *nothing* like that. LOL.

I don't ever want to see that happen again.

Aww, I totally deserve that. The Boston Red Sox is a good team.

Merlin, in a *Frozen* thread? I can't believe it. I know you will never turn down a chance to take a cheap shot at me but still, you're here. You must be starting to warm up a little to Frozestrom or you've at least come to terms with it -- if so, that's great, Merlin.

Also, The Economist article is not spam, I just thought it was interesting how IP's and media companies are the driving force behind the recent theme park investment boom.

I never got to experience Wonders of Life, Horizons, Kitchen Kaberet and Figment with Dreamfinder -- those must have been some really amazing experiences. Mr Toad gets brought up a lot here, too.

It's kind of unbelievable to think that Frozen was able to lighten crowds at MK. And, I totally agree with you that it's going to happen again.

I was looking at flynnibus's amazing Shanghai Disney thread and felt bad. But, then I had to put things into perspective. MK opened in 1971, the park is 45 years old and it is still an amazing theme park. It's not fair to compare it to Shanghai.
You introduced the "boots" as a means of deflecting the fact you don't want anyone viewing your profile page, just as you used Burberry to deflect the fact you are indeed a paid TWDC shill. But, it's a living....
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Merlin, in a *Frozen* thread? I can't believe it. I know you will never turn down a chance to take a cheap shot at me but still, you're here. You must be starting to warm up a little to Frozestrom or you've at least come to terms with it -- if so, that's great, Merlin.

Also, The Economist article is not spam, I just thought it was interesting how IP's and media companies are the driving force behind the recent theme park investment boom.

MK opened in 1971, the park is 45 years old and it is still an amazing theme park. It's not fair to compare it to Shanghai.
The spam I was referring to was the Burberry boot stuff you posted, not so much the Economist article. Why even bring Burberry or boots up? I have no clue why and almost wondered if your account was hacked because it read exactly like an automated spambot post. Except the rest of your post still contained your usual style (and i see you're just as antagonistic as ever towards anyone who isn't satisfied with Frozen at Epcot).

The idea is still as repulsive as ever (not sure how my lack of posts in the thread would give off the impression i was warming up to it either). The more we learn about the ride in fact, the more valid the concerns become (short, obscenely low capacity, and leaving Norway's culture behind).

As for Shanghai comparisons to MK, MK already had plenty of issues even when compared against itself and Disneyland CA. Disneyland is far older yet has upgraded tons of its rides over the years that MK has not. MK has no excuse not to do the same to its own dated and dilapidated versions of rides such as Peter Pan and Space Mountain (we shall see about Big Thunder this fall). The park hasn't had a truly worthwhile addition since the early 90s with Splash Mountain, it is woefully light on attractions for the amount of people it pulls. Which is a shame because Tokyo's version of Frozen and possibly the new Beauty and the Beast rides could have been just what it needed at least to start with (which again Disneyland is rumored to be getting).
 
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JohnWD

Well-Known Member
I guess the dull posts here can't take the contrast to flamboyant posts.

As for Shanghai comparisons to MK, MK already had plenty of issues even when compared against itself and Disneyland CA. Disneyland is far older yet has upgraded tons of its rides over the years that MK has not. MK has no excuse not to do the same to its own dated and dilapidated versions of rides such as Peter Pan and Space Mountain (we shall see about Big Thunder this fall). The park hasn't had a truly worthwhile addition since the early 90s with Splash Mountain, it is woefully light on attractions for the amount of people it pulls. Which is a shame because Tokyo's version of Frozen and possibly the new Beauty and the Beast rides could have been just what it needed at least to start with (which again Disneyland is rumored to be getting).

I go to DLR regularly (I live 30 minutes away). There is no comparison between DLR and WDW - DLR is a shadow of WDW. It's the "grass is always greener" syndrome that makes people on this board act slighted in this comparison. There are differences - ToT is way better at HS, but RSR blows TT away. Why do so many people come to MK if it is so "woefully light"? Oh, you mean for you it is. Well that's how you feel - I won't try to convince you otherwise.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I go to DLR regularly (I live 30 minutes away). There is no comparison between DLR and WDW - DLR is a shadow of WDW. It's the "grass is always greener" syndrome that makes people on this board act slighted in this comparison. There are differences - ToT is way better at HS, but RSR blows TT away. Why do so many people come to MK if it is so "woefully light"? Oh, you mean for you it is. Well that's how you feel - I won't try to convince you otherwise.
It's not DLR > WDW. It's DL > MK.
 
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