Frontierland makeover

[StageFrenzy]

It seems that Imagination 4.0 has been pitched multiple times!

The only unfounded rumor I've heard is the possibility of the Ratatouille ride (which is being build in DLP) coming to the France Pavilion. Suffice to say, I don't believe it would ever happen.

Everyone pretty much knows what Epcot needs and it is mostly to put fix or fixed in front of attractions i.e.

Fix Imagination and new show
Fix SSE
Fix maelstrom and movie
Fix/reshoot impressions
Fix soarin'/circle of life
Fix UoE
Fix Innoventions
That's just to get it up to quasi-disney standards

Not touching WoL or the rest of WS that is a whole 'nother issue

 

[Darth Sidious]

Some accountant with a spreadsheet knows it. That man is not me. Comparing that number to the same number for Universal would give you an idea of how WDW is doing vs Universal.

You could see if once in the past they gave a dollar amount then take subsequent years % change but is it worth that? lol Disney's overall numbers (revenue) in terms of dollars worldwide and domestically crush Universals but percentage wise Universal wins out. The profit margin for P&R is an abysmal 14% or so for disney and if you back out depreciation which is just an accounting number you get roughly 23%. Compare that to the roughly 30% Uni is seeing. Keep in mind though, for many reasons this comparison isn't really fair because they are in different situations.

 

[articos]

Everyone pretty much knows what Epcot needs and it is mostly to put fix or fixed in front of attractions i.e.

Fix Imagination and new show
Fix SSE
Fix maelstrom and movie
Fix/reshoot impressions
Fix soarin'/circle of life
Fix UoE
Fix Innoventions
That's just to get it up to quasi-disney standards

Not touching WoL or the rest of WS that is a whole 'nother issue

Add:

Fix post-show for Imagination
De-clutter FW
Clean SSE ext./ Fix post-show
Relocate Entry graveyard/restore fountain
Fix Seas interior content (add/refresh/clean)
Prune back entry trees at Land
Add personnel back to Living with the Land

 

[CountryBearFan]

No more 'Toons for AdventureLand, FrontierLand and TomorrowLand.

They're not "Toons"--it's a very discriminatory term when used in this kind of a context! Call them "Animated Characters" instead.

 

[Skip]

They're not "Toons"--it's a very discriminatory term when used in this kind of a context! Call them "Animated Characters" instead.

I'm constantly baffled by you.

 

[menamechris]

My concern with these potential projects is that TDO will become too overwhelmed by the prospects of them all, and end up doing nothing. Why aren't these projects being reviewed one at a time - adjusted and "value engineered" (gggrrr) as necessary - and THEN once greenlit, move to the next project.

I feel like there are so many possible projects being thrown at the wall at once, that nothing will end up sticking.

 

[NoChesterHester]

My concern with these potential projects is that TDO will become too overwhelmed by the prospects of them all, and end up doing nothing. Why aren't these projects being reviewed one at a time - adjusted and "value engineered" (gggrrr) as necessary - and THEN once greenlit, move to the next project.

I feel like there are so many possible projects being thrown at the wall at once, that nothing will end up sticking.

The thing though is that financially they really could pull the trigger on all of them at once. If they really wanted to address multiple issues at once, they could.

 

[doctornick]

The thing though is that financially they really could pull the trigger on all of them at once. If they really wanted to address multiple issues at once, they could.

All of these added up probably are similar to the $1.2B they spent on DCA (surely a little more, but not wildly so). The company could afford it, especially without new cruise ships being built, and with it spread out ove multiple years.

 

[GoofGoof]

The thing though is that financially they really could pull the trigger on all of them at once. If they really wanted to address multiple issues at once, they could.

All of these added up probably are similar to the $1.2B they spent on DCA (surely a little more, but not wildly so). The company could afford it, especially without new cruise ships being built, and with it spread out ove multiple years.

This and this. They definitely could do it. Even if everything we tlaked about got green lit today it would take 3 to 5 years minimum on a very agressive schedule (agressive for Disney). $1.2B spread over 5 years is only $240M per year Or roughly the cost of John Carter

It's not a question of if they can do it, but whether they will choose to make the investment.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Is this really true?

MK just opened FLE, which costed hundreds of millions, they'll want to see a return on the investment. Oh, and Iger/Rasulo have said no major new spending for the next fiscal year. Disney has been on a construction boom for the past half decade, cruise ships, Hong Kong, FLE, Carsland, Shanghai (which Disney is partly financing) . . . if they spent major $ every year the company would be bankrupt.

And they just spent how many billions on Star Wars?

Carsland or WRE next year?

No way.

Construction boom over for at least the next three years, outside of Avatarland.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Let me put this in perspective before the thread gets out of hand. The project recently was taken to the next step in the development process beyond Concept. That's why I said it's looking more likely. It hasn't been officially greenlit but it has made it past the stage that normally marks the end of the road and there are quite a few resources assigned to this including outside resources. This of course doesn't mean that it can't end up on the chopping block or end up being value engineered down to a food cart (that also goes for any other project out there right now including AK and Studio) but at this stage it's looking very good.

The thing is that WDI is *always* working on new stuff, presenting stuff, hashing stuff over. In blue sky country it seems like something new is always on the verge of being built.

WDI is looking at an Oz ride for DLR, no way they'd think about WRE for WDW's Frontierland. They're waiting to see how the film does.

False rumor.

 

[GoofGoof]

MK just opened FLE, which costed hundreds of millions, they'll want to see a return on the investment. Oh, and Iger/Rasulo have said no major new spending for the next fiscal year. Disney has been on a construction boom for the past half decade, cruise ships, Hong Kong, FLE, Carsland, Shanghai (which Disney is partly financing) . . . if they spent major $ every year the company would be bankrupt.

And they just spent how many billions on Star Wars?

Carsland or WRE next year?

No way.

Construction boom over for at least the next three years, outside of Avatarland.

Not sure how buying Lucasfilms has anything to do with capital spending at the parks. It doesn't. There is plenty of room for any of the proposed projects or all of them since the costs would be spread over multiple years. They said they will be be returning to a less capital intensive period now that the construction boom period is over, but each of those big capital projects had huge budgets averaging close to $1B each. These smaller projects could be done without moving the needle on capital spending.

 

[Matt7187]

MK just opened FLE, which costed hundreds of millions, they'll want to see a return on the investment. Oh, and Iger/Rasulo have said no major new spending for the next fiscal year. Disney has been on a construction boom for the past half decade, cruise ships, Hong Kong, FLE, Carsland, Shanghai (which Disney is partly financing) . . . if they spent major $ every year the company would be bankrupt.

And they just spent how many billions on Star Wars?

Carsland or WRE next year?

No way.

Construction boom over for at least the next three years, outside of Avatarland.

I completely disagree. I think TDO has at least half a brain and knows that universal will keep adding stuff like hp 2.0, transformers, etc. and they will lose a lot of guests and most importantly for them money. If Disney went on a huge streak starting on December 7 by announcing Carsland and mi coaster, new DHS stage shows, and avatar concept art, and then at d23 expo next August they go huge and announce WRE, imagination 4, soarin around the world, tron, and a very subtle hint at more to come, (star wars), then disney will stay the best parks in the world and universal will not have a chance for a very long time. They would make HUGE money on Carsland and eventually Star Wars that merchandising would make back lots of the money spent. And we all know that TDO pretty much only cares about money, but they would make a ton of it.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Construction boom over for at least the next three years, outside of Avatarland.

Does that mean you're not going to talk about a fifth gate for the next three years?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Not sure how buying Lucasfilms has anything to do with capital spending at the parks. It doesn't. There is plenty of room for any of the proposed projects or all of them since the costs would be spread over multiple years. They said they will be be returning to a less capital intensive period now that the construction boom period is over, but each of those big capital projects had huge budgets averaging close to $1B each. These smaller projects could be done without moving the needle on capital spending.

Sure, Disney is a big company, they can spend $600 million over three years to build Carsland by hiding this in the budget.

Not.

Disney spent $4 billion on Star Wars, yes, that is the same Disney company that runs the theme parks.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Does that mean you're not going to talk about a fifth gate for the next three years?

I can talk about it, but if it had Carsland is a part of it, the earliest opening would probably be in 6-7 years from now. It isn't a secret that TDA wants to keep Carsland a DLR exclusive for now.

 

[GoofGoof]

False rumor.

There is another guy around here who loves to present his opinion as facts. Haven't seen him post in a while. Curious....

I don't know if this thing will get built or not, but the source is pretty reputable.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I completely disagree. I think TDO has at least half a brain and knows that universal will keep adding stuff like hp 2.0, transformers, etc. and they will lose a lot of guests and most importantly for them money.

Surprisingly, Carsland at DCA has yet to turn on a profit on its own, though it inevitably will. That's why Disney doesn't build everything right now, they've got to wait for prior investments to bring in $.

WDW has noticed Potterland, they did build FLE, 7DMT on the way, and Avatarland is a go. We can argue how good these additions are, but yes, WDW has already spent a ton to compete with Uni.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sure, Disney is a big company, they can spend $600 million over three years to build Carsland by hiding this in the budget.

Not.

Disney spent $4 billion on Star Wars, yes, that is the same Disney company that runs the theme parks.

Disney bought Lucasfilms for $4B but half was paid in stock and half cash. It's only $2B in cash out the door but that is not the same cash that is budgeted for capital projects. Two completely different segments run by different people. The Star Wars deal has no impact on capital spending at the parks.

 

[Matt7187]

Surprisingly, Carsland at DCA has yet to turn on a profit on its own, though it inevitably will. That's why Disney doesn't build everything right now, they've got to wait for prior investments to bring in $.

WDW has noticed Potterland, they did build FLE, 7DMT on the way, and Avatarland is a go. We can argue how good these additions are, but yes, WDW has already spent a ton to compete with Uni.

But universal wont stop spending money. Comcast wants them to be the best park, so they are virtually giving universal all the money they need to become better theme parks than wdw. Since comcast has taken over, universal has gotten a Spider-Man refurbishment, despicable me simulator, transformers in opening next summer. Although not announced, hp 2.0 has already started construction and the gringotts roller coaster has already put down track. Just look at the universal rumors thread on the universal section of this board. There are tons of rumors that are very likely to be built like a Seuss land or Jurassic park expansion or both and many more. Since comcast bought the parks, disney has finished construction on stuff that was already in progress and announced a project that was on life assist for a while and has gone through budget cuts probably like cutting the bike coaster, and refurbished test track even though reports say the ride hasn't even changed that much, just the pre and post shows. That's it. There have been minor refurbs and little attractions like the jack sparrow thing in DHS, but that costs them little money. Disney world doesn't want those new rides…
They NEED those new rides if they want people to come to disney instead of universal.