Frontierland makeover

[Darth Sidious]

Not sure how buying Lucasfilms has anything to do with capital spending at the parks. It doesn't. There is plenty of room for any of the proposed projects or all of them since the costs would be spread over multiple years. They said they will be be returning to a less capital intensive period now that the construction boom period is over, but each of those big capital projects had huge budgets averaging close to $1B each. These smaller projects could be done without moving the needle on capital spending.

You are correct. These projects are definitely doable. Btw, here is an interesting article... You may enjoy it based on past conversations: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-09/bob-iger-on-disney-california-adventure

 

[unkadug]

But universal wont stop spending money. Comcast wants them to be the best park, so they are virtually giving universal all the money they need to become better theme parks than wdw. Since comcast has taken over, universal has gotten a Spider-Man refurbishment, despicable me simulator, transformers in opening next summer. Although not announced, hp 2.0 has already started construction and the gringotts roller coaster has already put down track. Just look at the universal rumors thread on the universal section of this board. There are tons of rumors that are very likely to be built like a Seuss land or Jurassic park expansion or both and many more. Since comcast bought the parks, disney has finished construction on stuff that was already in progress and announced a project that was on life assist for a while and has gone through budget cuts probably like cutting the bike coaster, and refurbished test track even though reports say the ride hasn't even changed that much, just the pre and post shows. That's it. There have been minor refurbs and little attractions like the jack sparrow thing in DHS, but that costs them little money. Disney world doesn't want those new rides…
They NEED those new rides if they want people to come to disney instead of universal.

That's not what I'm reading.

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I rode 4 times and made 3 designs... It's amazing. Except for the track, it's pretty unrecognizable from the original. Inside it pretty much looks just like the concept art.

The screens worked today. They displayed info on each test.

The music was a computerized synth sound. Much better than the clanging and banging it use to be.

I also got a sneak peek at one of the post show exhibits where you can make a commercial featuring your design and e-mail it to yourself. Pretty awesome.

In a nutshell, it's the beat attraction at Epcot hands down and one of the best rides in all of property. WDI made me a believer again!

​

 

[Beholder]

I'd like to put my thoughts out there on the "possible" expansion in Frontierland. First, wether the concept of an old west type attraction is "hot" or "current" with the domestic crowd may be secondary in consideration. My understanding is that our Old West is what is considered by many around the world as Americas "mythology". Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Bat Masterson are our knights of the Round Table, our Sinbad, our heroes and villains. To some extent, the world is as fascinated with our old west as we are with their Beowulf and Heracles. Second, I don't think a respectful representation of Native Americans would offend anyone. The Pueblo, Cherokee, Sioux, and the early mound builders would make for some fascinating subject matter for a great attraction. Maybe a section on the mysterious Anasazi. Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, the stage coach, railroads, outlaws and the gold rush all intertwined with Americas indigenous people could make a pretty awesome attraction. Again, just my thoughts.

 

[Matt7187]

That's not what I'm reading.

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Oh, then maybe I should change who I read from!

 

[whylightbulb]

The thing is that WDI is *always* working on new stuff, presenting stuff, hashing stuff over. In blue sky country it seems like something new is always on the verge of being built.

WDI is looking at an Oz ride for DLR, no way they'd think about WRE for WDW's Frontierland. They're waiting to see how the film does.

False rumor.

Not sure what you mean by "false rumor." Everything I've said is true. This is beyond Blue Sky now. I'm not saying it will happen I'm simply saying its looking more likely than a few weeks ago.

 

[MUTZIE77]

Surprisingly, Carsland at DCA has yet to turn on a profit on its own, though it inevitably will. That's why Disney doesn't build everything right now, they've got to wait for prior investments to bring in $.

WDW has noticed Potterland, they did build FLE, 7DMT on the way, and Avatarland is a go. We can argue how good these additions are, but yes, WDW has already spent a ton to compete with Uni.

They spent too much for what was built, and what was built is no competition for Uni.

 

[NoChesterHester]

Not sure what you mean by "false rumor." Everything I've said is true. This is beyond Blue Sky now. I'm not saying it will happen I'm simply saying its looking more likely than a few weeks ago.

Don't respond to the pixie dust snorter. Your life will be better.

 

[SirOinksALot]

They spent too much for what was built, and what was built is no competition for Uni.

Universal has been building better rides than Disney since 1999. That year USF had 8.9 million visitors. Then they spent billions, had all sorts of flashy additions, saw a nice uptick in attendance.... and had a combined 8.9 million visitors between USF and IOA a decade later. Until Universal can break away from the 6-park flex ticket model, which is not imminent, they'll always struggle to break that cycle. I'll never understand how people think Universal is "beating" Disney for being where they should be with organic market growth over the past 15 years.

Hopefully the river doesn't go away. I'm also not sure Frontierland of all places at WDW is where the money needs to be spent, but who knows.

 

[gonnichi]

That's not what I'm reading.

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It sounds to me like the new TT looks amazing, but it is just more cosmetic work ( just like the FLE, very exciting to look at but not anything really great) It doesnt sound like it is going to be a much better ride then it was. Same track layout etc, which is fine but it doesnt sound like an amazing new attraction. here is hoping that i am wrong and it is better then Potter.

 

[Adam5897]

I think that TDO is realizing that they have to do something soon. I usually don't get my hopes up but I truly think that something big and Mabey unexpected will be announced on Dec 7th for what's next.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Universal has been building better rides than Disney since 1999. That year USF had 8.9 million visitors. Then they spent billions, had all sorts of flashy additions, saw a nice uptick in attendance.... and had a combined 8.9 million visitors between USF and IOA a decade later. Until Universal can break away from the 6-park flex ticket model, which is not imminent, they'll always struggle to break that cycle. I'll never understand how people think Universal is "beating" Disney for being where they should be with organic market growth over the past 15 years.

It's not just turnstile clicks. UNI will not surpass Disney in terms of attendance. Guests spending at UNI is up compared to WDW which means that Disney is losing a day or more of spending on admission, food, and merch. When you take what one guest spends on admission, merch, and food and multiply that by the number guests that are spending ONE less day at WDW the results are substantial. Also, More guests are opting out of Disney Magical Express and renting a car. Can you guess where they're going? Last but not least, growing numbers of Central Fla. tourists, from Brits to High School senior classes, are going to UNI and HP before they go to WDW. They're going to the park with the FRESHEST offerings and UNIQUE merch and food when their wallets are fattest.

I'll also add this, Apple's Global smartphone market share as of the most recent data (Sept. 2012) is 17% but their profit share is 71%. While I doubt UNI could hit that profit share, they could easily have a larger profit margin than WDW without surpassing them in attendance. Comcast and UNI know this and you see them investing accordingly.

Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/08/technology/smartphone-market-share/index.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ber-apple-takes-71-of-all-smartphone-profits/

 

[Darth Sidious]

It's not just turnstile clicks. UNI will not surpass Disney in terms of attendance. Guests spending at UNI is up compared to WDW which means that Disney is losing a day or more of spending on admission, food, and merch. When you take what one guest spends on admission, merch, and food and multiply that by the number guests that are spending ONE less day at WDW the results are substantial. Also, More guests are opting out of Disney Magical Express and renting a car. Can you guess where they're going? Last but not least, growing numbers of Central Fla. tourists, from Brits to High School senior classes, are going to UNI and HP before they go to WDW. They're going to the park with the FRESHEST offerings and UNIQUE merch and food when their wallets are fattest.

I'll also add this, Apple's Global smartphone market share as of the most recent data (Sept. 2012) is 17% but their profit share is 71%. While I doubt UNI could hit that profit share, they could easily have a larger profit margin than WDW without surpassing them in attendance. Comcast and UNI know this and you see them investing accordingly.

Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/08/technology/smartphone-market-share/index.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ber-apple-takes-71-of-all-smartphone-profits/

Their profit margins for P&R is already much higher than TWDC.... I think it is double.

 

[WED Purist]

Construction boom over for at least the next three years, outside of Avatarland.

Wow, nothing starting for three years outside of Avatarland. You sure about that?

 

[WED Purist]

The thing is that WDI is *always* working on new stuff, presenting stuff, hashing stuff over. In blue sky country it seems like something new is always on the verge of being built.

WDI is looking at an Oz ride for DLR, no way they'd think about WRE for WDW's Frontierland. They're waiting to see how the film does.

False rumor.

I'm curious as how you know this is a false rumor.

 

[CinematicFusion]

My question...will anything be built by 2016? From avatar to DHS to frontier land expansion?

 

[SirOinksALot]

It's not just turnstile clicks. UNI will not surpass Disney in terms of attendance. Guests spending at UNI is up compared to WDW which means that Disney is losing a day or more of spending on admission, food, and merch. When you take what one guest spends on admission, merch, and food and multiply that by the number guests that are spending ONE less day at WDW the results are substantial. Also, More guests are opting out of Disney Magical Express and renting a car. Can you guess where they're going? Last but not least, growing numbers of Central Fla. tourists, from Brits to High School senior classes, are going to UNI and HP before they go to WDW. They're going to the park with the FRESHEST offerings and UNIQUE merch and food when their wallets are fattest.

I'll also add this, Apple's Global smartphone market share as of the most recent data (Sept. 2012) is 17% but their profit share is 71%. While I doubt UNI could hit that profit share, they could easily have a larger profit margin than WDW without surpassing them in attendance. Comcast and UNI know this and you see them investing accordingly.

Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/08/technology/smartphone-market-share/index.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ber-apple-takes-71-of-all-smartphone-profits/

The fact that you think Universal could have a higher profit *share* than Disney in the Orlando market shows that this finance discussion needs to end. Now. Margin and share are not the same thing. On no planet would anyone trade earning 20% margin on 45 million visitors for earning 30% on 14 million visitors, especially when the 20% comes with two dozen resorts, conference visitors, and a shopping district that dwarfs CityWalk both in physical size and number of first-party operating locations. Anyone banging on about Universal's higher P&R margins obviously has no grasp on the totality of the situation and is just dicing numbers to serve their prerogative.


Perhaps you're young, but this same argument was percolating around the Internet back in 1999. The scenario was literally identical. I was at IOA a few Saturdays ago and did Hulk, Spiderman twice, Dr. Doom twice, HP twice, the Olivander show, and both dragon coasters in a tick under three hours. It already isn't what it once was, which is why you see Universal going nuts to get Transformers done by June - because they know they don't want to have another summer like this recently past one. Over the course of 23 years, Universal hasn't been able to sustain anything without lumping substantial amounts of cash at the parks, and even when they do, it then trails off and they aren't outpacing organic market growth over the long term. I find it hilarious that people keep coming back to guest spending numbers at Universal when (according to sources I trust) those numbers (and the articles about them... go figure) dried up almost a year ago.

Some Frontierland discussion this has all turned into

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

My question...will anything be built by 2016? From avatar to DHS to frontier land expansion?

Well, At the rate of seven dwarfs mine train, doesn't seem like it.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

This news is pretty nice to see. Considering Frontierland is my favorite land in the park.

 

[KitchenKabaret]

As much as I want Disney to expand and grow. This ride doesn't seem to really excite me. We need Carsland at DHS, animal kingdom expansion (anything), another ride or some redos (energy and imagination) at Epcot , and fix tomorrowland and get rid of speedway

And oh yeah fix and expand dtd too

Yes...THIS...exactly. Why try to push more people into a smaller park when you have your highest capacity park (EPCOT) sitting there, in miserable need of a tune up? I love EPCOT and it remains my favorite park, but I'm hard pressed to explain why to other people, at least in terms of major attractions.

And if Disney wants to capture the imaginations of future generations of small children, they really need to integrate more Pixar characters into their plans. They are missing out on a huge opportunity there.

 

[John]

It's not just turnstile clicks. UNI will not surpass Disney in terms of attendance. Guests spending at UNI is up compared to WDW which means that Disney is losing a day or more of spending on admission, food, and merch. When you take what one guest spends on admission, merch, and food and multiply that by the number guests that are spending ONE less day at WDW the results are substantial. Also, More guests are opting out of Disney Magical Express and renting a car. Can you guess where they're going? Last but not least, growing numbers of Central Fla. tourists, from Brits to High School senior classes, are going to UNI and HP before they go to WDW. They're going to the park with the FRESHEST offerings and UNIQUE merch and food when their wallets are fattest.

I'll also add this, Apple's Global smartphone market share as of the most recent data (Sept. 2012) is 17% but their profit share is 71%. While I doubt UNI could hit that profit share, they could easily have a larger profit margin than WDW without surpassing them in attendance. Comcast and UNI know this and you see them investing accordingly.

Sources:
http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/08/technology/smartphone-market-share/index.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ber-apple-takes-71-of-all-smartphone-profits/

THIS ^ The only metric that matters.