Frontierland makeover

[HMF]

I know there is much disgust with the way that the Florida theme parks have been run...but to be honest, what is different from the way they run their business compared to any other business I have had experience with. This is corporate America at it's finest and it has infested the ranks down there.
Flip Flopping on ideas and never making a final decision
Cost cutting at its finest
Not listening to its employees and making inane decisions based on the upper management's thoughts
Inability to act on and listen to its customer's complaints

Just because everybody does it does not make it right and if I remember correctly this line of thinking nearly destroyed our economy in 2008.

 

[Skyway]

Because it's not MAPO.

And so what if its not?

In the 60's, Disney was one of the only companies doing robotic entertainment. They HAD to build their own. But Since then, other companies have gotten into the industry and expanded the technology.

No one cares that Disney outsources much of its construction, laundry, food service, and other specialties. No one cares that Disney purchases fleet vehicles from car manufacturers instead of opening their own auto assembly plant. No one cares that Disney did not actually manufacture the paint, wigs, and fabric that goes on the AA's. So why should anyone care who makes the plastic frames and the motors inside?

MAPO had only one "client". Disney. As we all gripe about, the company isn't exactly opening up AA intensive shows all over the world like they did in the 70's and 80's.

A contractor like Garner Holt makes the overall price of AA's cheaper for its clients, and has a strong financial incentive to invest in R&D of new technologies. It's no different than how Disney (and other theme parks) outsource coaster development. Disney could never compete with the R&D being done by Intamin or Vekoma, which can recoup their costs by selling to a wide range of customers.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

And so what if its not?

In the 60's, Disney was one of the only companies doing robotic entertainment. They HAD to build their own. But Since then, other companies have gotten into the industry and expanded the technology.

No one cares that Disney outsources much of its construction, laundry, food service, and other specialties. No one cares that Disney purchases fleet vehicles from car manufacturers instead of opening their own auto assembly plant. No one cares that Disney did not actually manufacture the paint, wigs, and fabric that goes on the AA's. So why should anyone care who makes the plastic frames and the motors inside?

MAPO had only one "client". Disney. As we all gripe about, the company isn't exactly opening up AA intensive shows all over the world like they did in the 70's and 80's.

A contractor like Garner Holt makes the overall price of AA's cheaper for its clients, and has a strong financial incentive to invest in R&D of new technologies. It's no different than how Disney (and other theme parks) outsource coaster development. Disney could never compete with the R&D being done by Intamin or Vekoma, which can recoup their costs by selling to a wide range of customers.

I think you're forgetting that Disney attractions are real life interpretations of made up environments. Both characters and story play a key role in selling the believability of those worlds. There's a reason why people still like Pirates even though it's a 40-50 year old attraction. It's the same reason why animated films like Snow White, Pinnochio, Peter Pan, and Lady and the Tramp. The characters were designed, built, and animated under ONE roof. Sure Disney didn't make the paper, ink, pencils, and paint, but they were the ones who used those supplies to make those characters work. Comparing Garner to the Coaster Firms (Intamin, Vekoma, etc.) is a false equivalency.

The AAs, at least they used to be, are the most important part of the attraction from a creative and guest perspective. Making a character is an intensive process of trial and error that can only be done in close collaboration and IS different from buying wigs or motors or fabric.

Also, outsourcing tends to make products and or services more expensive as time goes on.

 

[phi2134]

Just because everybody does it does not make it right and if I remember correctly this line of thinking nearly destroyed our economy in 2008.

Never said it was ok

 

[HMF]

A contractor like Garner Holt makes the overall price of AA's cheaper for its clients, and has a strong financial incentive to invest in R&D of new technologies. It's no different than how Disney (and other theme parks) outsource coaster development. Disney could never compete with the R&D being done by Intamin or Vekoma, which can recoup their costs by selling to a wide range of customers.

If that's so why not simply buy Garner Holt. It makes more sense from a Disney perspective than buying Marvel.

 

[RSoxNo1]

There's a lot of that going around these days. ... I'd say it was all the coffee, but I've learned here that most fanbois are afraid to drink the stuff ... and they aren't even from Utah!

I got 50+ pages of another thread that indicates that fanbois are very serious about their coffee.

 

[jdmdisney99]

They're probably thinking about this. I'm sure they have top men working on it. Top men.

 

[Captain Neo]

Al Lutz broke the news today that OLC is about to greenlight Carsland for Tokyo's Frontierland replacing Tom Sawyer Island. I think it's a safe bet we are going to get a value engineered clone for Magic Kingdom.

 

[NiarrNDisney]

When I first read rumor here about the potential end of the RoA, TSI as we know them for future development (a plan I personally think shouldn't be on WDW's to-do list), I had fun visualizing it in this illustrated site plan:

Nice mock up!

 

[bdearl41]

Davy Crocket's Wild Frontier Stroller Parking E Ticket Attraction??????? Sounds fantastic. Why not fix the dumpster fire known as Adventureland? Frontierland already has two E tickets, Adventureland has a C ticket at best.

 

[Taylor]

Davy Crocket's Wild Frontier Stroller Parking E Ticket Attraction??????? Sounds fantastic. Why not fix the dumpster fire known as Adventureland? Frontierland already has two E tickets, Adventureland has a C ticket at best.

Adventure land has POTC, jungle cruise, tiki room, and the aladdin spinner. None are E's but it's better then what you said it was

 

[bdearl41]

Adventure land has POTC, jungle cruise, tiki room, and the aladdin spinner. None are E's but it's better then what you said it was

POTC has a 6 foot hill, name a thrill in Adventureland. While I enjoy each attraction, and the dole whip, Adventureland has zero punch, and with the name adventure in it, it needs punch. Otherwise it is simply "Friendly Jungle Land".

 

[TP2000]

Adventure land has POTC, jungle cruise, tiki room, and the aladdin spinner. None are E's but it's better then what you said it was

How did we ever get to a place in time where Pirates of the Caribbean and Jungle Cruise are no longer considered E Tickets?

 

[bdearl41]

How did we ever get to a place in time where Pirates of the Caribbean and Jungle Cruise are no longer considered E Tickets?

Have you ridden them more than twice, if so they are no longer E rides. WDW used to push the envelope, ahead of all other parks, they have fallen behind. It is completely expectable, when on top, you lose your edge a little. But now WDW has to get that edge back and bring back the "WOW" to their rides. Yes they have great rides, and many of those great rides are recent, but c'mon, trying to pass the Jungle Cruise in 2012 as an E ticket is a joke.

 

[bdearl41]

Nice mock up!

I would like to know what some of the rides are: E4 and J6 especially.

 

[WDW1974]

Yep, 2015 on Shanghai. And yes, that will 99.999% happen. No pesky regulation or building code. (Kidding, kinda.) Iger's almost certainly staying at least another 2 years, likely 3 or 4 minimum. He does have political ambitions, but that could also take the shape of other influential positions between public/private sectors, and I think he likes the position he's put the company in and wants to enjoy the spoils for a bit. Really, I don't think he's all that bad for the parks. He's a pretty big proponent of the parks, actually, if someone below shows him what needs to be done and why. The bigger problem is getting the lower echelons to stick their necks out. JL insisted on Carsland, and Bob backed him, even when it overran. The larger problem is TDO and the Parks corp suite, along with the politics at Flower.

I would say his hands off leadership is actually detrimental to the parks. You are quite right, IF he is pushed by someone like John Lasseter or the Chinese government, then things get done. Otherwise ... not so much. And he lacks Eisner's passion for the parks, one that absolutely was there regardless of his last years at the company.

No one that has power or standing tells him that WDW is a disaster and he doesn't bother to show up and see for himself.

But, certainly, TDO and WDI politics have been and remain huge obstacles to getting WDW on the right track again.

Thinking Cars Land might be a good draw for TPFKaTD-MGMS is smart. Value engineering the land down akin to taking a hatchet isn't smart. But you wanna bet what wins out?

Hell, EE could have been an amazing attraction ...

WDW won't ever get magically better. It may get systemically better if the individual Parks VPs start to care more, some sort of balance is brought back to the thinking of show quality vs. guest counts, maintenance budgets are ticked up, and TDO has a sea change in thought from the top down. Doable? Absolutely. Probable? Let's wait and see.

I don't have any faith because the VPs both in the parks and at TDO need changing. They need people with vision who get quality.

 

[WDW1974]

Bob cares about what makes revenue for the company. He doesn't care about the parks the way fans do, but he does actually care about the division. P&R makes a significant contribution to the company as a whole, and it's a well known entity with a legend behind it. There was never a serious effort to sell off Parks&Resorts, nor WDW, in the way that the rumors tried to spin. There was never a danger of WDW or DL ever leaving the control of TWDC. RE: Splash, Disco Yeti or Imagination - none of them are impacting actual guest numbers or satisfaction in a meaningful way, unfortunately. That's what matters.

Well, as the evil vile Disney hating Spirit, I was the one who first placed that news out ... and I stand behind it to this day. Disney was putting its toes in the water, so to speak, about selling all/parts of p&R as far back as '07 and were (likely still are) seeking investors to buy smaller chunks. WDW had investment groups touring the resort in the summer of 2011 and having free reign. What that means or could have, I really don't know. But there was something beyond smoke there.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If that's so why not simply buy Garner Holt. It makes more sense from a Disney perspective than buying Marvel.

Not really. Holt makes money because he can sell to Disney, or Universal or a casino somewhere or whomever. Disney was only making animatronics for themselves. I understand that something is lost by Disney not doing things for themselves, but I still fail to see how that equates to vilifying Holt.

They need people with vision who get quality.

And they're being picked up by other companies.

 

[WDW1974]

It's definitely *not* worth visiting Disneyland Paris at Christmas to see the Christmas Cavalcade. It's cute for what it is, but it's not spectacular by any stretch of the imagination.

Responded to your email, but will say it here too: where's the trip report?
I am really anxious to read your impressions as a first-timer...

 

[WDW1974]

That just sounds awful. It's a shame that, after the amazingness of Tokyo DisneySEA, that the Oriental Land Company has followed Disney down the obsession with franchises.

I don't blame them one bit. It's the reality of the day and they don't have expansion land ... besides, Potter is going to be a 5-hour bullet train ride away in a few years!