From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

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"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
it introduces a new condition, a localized threat that is an increased risk vs the commonly known, usual risk levels.

No. It doesn't. Go back and re-read my posts. This has been my position all along.

So I don't misinterpret your position. You are saying that Disney was unaware of the threat. That they knew nothing about the increasing aggressive nature of gators in 7 Seas Lagoon? Were unaware of any reports made by any family or resort management staff regarding this? This is your position?

You discount the families interviewed on news outlets, print and digital media - and you are saying they are not credible? You're basically saying they are lying. You're getting closer to Shanghai with every post you make.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think people have a false sense of security when they are in the bubble

So if I work up some false concept in my brain... because I'm woo'd by the power of pixie dust... who is responsible for that?

If I think 'crime never happens' at Disney world and I think leaving my car unlocked and my $3,000 dollar camera hanging on my stroller in the park is safe.. and it gets taken.. Do we say 'well, why would they think they might get stolen? Its disney!!'

Unlike a lot of the people who post on here who are cynical and jaded against Disney, most guests feel that Disney would never put them in a situation that could be dangerous.

Disney didn't create this situation. If they had been just feet away, this never would have happened. Anyone that thinks Disney creates a biosphere and controls all elements of everything inside Disney needs their head checked. The people who have been injured on bus accidents would tell you to wake up. The parents who lost their kid to the bike/bus accident would tell you to wake up.

The notion that 'alot of people think stupid... so we should make that the acceptable standard' is in itself.. stupid. It's the race to the bottom.
 

prfctlyximprct

Well-Known Member
I've never witnessed it personally, but sadly, I think it's pretty believable. I'm a DVC owner and could stay in those bungalows with points if I chose to, but probably never will. I've never been on the deluxe dining plan either. What I did witness at BC villas last summer was a guy feeding the alligator in the canal there leftover pizza crust from the pool deck. For anyone that has never been to BCV there is a separate DVC only pool in front of the DVC wing. Between the pool and the parking lot is a drainage canal that runs up to the building. This guy and his kids had ordered a pizza and at about 9:30 pm he decided to feed the leftovers to the turtles and gator. I didn't really think it was a good idea but didn't say anything at the time. After seeing this happen I would definitely step in now and say something or report him.

My point is that you wouldn't need to grill chicken for the gator. Those things probably eat mostly anything and even if you are on the deluxe dining plan you are likely to have leftovers.
I just don't understand how there has never been an incident at fort wilderness then. I just don't understand it.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
Anyone going to WDW wants to escape into the magic. That's what a vacation is -- to put your real world concerns away just for a short time. I get it. I never turn on the TV or keep up with the news while at WDW. That doesn't mean WDW is responsible for your entire "reality." This isn't The Truman Show.

Yet even knowing about the dangers from alligators doesn't mean the tragedy wouldn't have happened. Admit it. It could have been your family on that beach and you wouldn't have given it a second thought at the time just because your toddler was splashing his feet in the water. You're on vacation on the shore of SSL next to GF on movie night. Not in a remote swamp.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Anyone going to WDW wants to escape into the magic. That's what a vacation is -- to put your real world concerns away just for a short time. I get it. I never turn on the TV or keep up with the news while at WDW. That doesn't mean WDW is responsible for your entire "reality." This isn't The Truman Show.

Yet even knowing about the dangers from alligators doesn't mean the tragedy wouldn't have happened. Admit it. It could have been your family on that beach and you wouldn't have given it a second thought at the time just because your toddler was splashing his feet in the water. You're on vacation on the shore of SSL next to GF on movie night. Not in a remote swamp.
Exactly. I do think if they have signs warning of gators it will give people a reminder that they are still in a natural area with dangerous wild animals.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I've never witnessed it personally, but sadly, I think it's pretty believable. I'm a DVC owner and could stay in those bungalows with points if I chose to, but probably never will. I've never been on the deluxe dining plan either. What I did witness at BC villas last summer was a guy feeding the alligator in the canal there leftover pizza crust from the pool deck. For anyone that has never been to BCV there is a separate DVC only pool in front of the DVC wing. Between the pool and the parking lot is a drainage canal that runs up to the building. This guy and his kids had ordered a pizza and at about 9:30 pm he decided to feed the leftovers to the turtles and gator. I didn't really think it was a good idea but didn't say anything at the time. After seeing this happen I would definitely step in now and say something or report him.

My point is that you wouldn't need to grill chicken for the gator. Those things probably eat mostly anything and even if you are on the deluxe dining plan you are likely to have leftovers.
Why didn't you report them? You guys are all blaming all powerful Disney. But not one person has said that they reported an illegal act. You own a timeshare in a state but you don't know the laws of that state?
That's a problem.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Bring Me A Shrubbery
Premium Member
Reading back through some of these posts I find it unreal how references are made to swimming in the ocean and sharks. Disclosure - I live on the intra-coastal in Martin county so I have seen this. Non-Floridians or those that don't live near the ocean probably have not.

Do you realize what happens when a shark is spotted near a shoreline? Do you really? It's chaotic. Everyone is forced from the water. Barriers and signs are erected warning people not to venture back into the water. Helicopters are spotted overhead. Anyone seeing the scene this creates pretty much gets the picture. Now imagine a shark sighting on South Beach in Miami. You think the lifeguard is just going say "Yep, It's the Ocean..there are sharks"
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
Reading back through some of these posts I find it unreal how references are made to swimming in the ocean and sharks. Disclosure - I live on the intra-coastal in Martin county so I have seen this. Non-Floridians or those that don't live near the ocean probably have not.

Do you realize what happens when a shark is spotted near a shoreline? Do you really? It's chaotic. Everyone is forced from the water. Barriers and signs are erected warning people not to venture back into the water. Helicopters are spotted overhead. Anyone seeing the scene this creates pretty much gets the picture. Now imagine a shark sighting on South Beach in Miami. You think the lifeguard is just going to point to the "No Swimming" sign and say "Yep, It's the Ocean..there are sharks"
You're completely wrong. Sorry. They do not do this every time a shark is spotted.
They will warn people if an aggressive shark is spotted close to shore, and then some of the things you stated will happen. People get bit by non aggressive sharks all of the time.
Please check your facts.
Do they close the beaches for barracuda? And everything else that can be in there?
I'm a diver. I know what's in the ocean. Don't spread information that isn't true.
Place a call to Dade County, Monroe County, Broward or Palm Beach. None of these places will confirm that they close every time there is a shark.
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
"I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
"No. I'm right!"
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..........

Meanwhile......
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flynnibus

Premium Member
No. It doesn't. Go back and re-read my posts. This has been my position all along.

Only if you believe Disney was aware of a specific, elevated dangerous risk being present vs the normal risks associated with the locale. A distinction you may have been thinking, but did not qualify clearly in your reply. But if that's your stance.. ok.. continue on..

So I don't misinterpret your position. You are saying that Disney was unaware of the threat. That they knew nothing about the increasing aggressive nature of gators in 7 Seas Lagoon? Were unaware of any reports made by any family or resort management staff regarding this? This is your position?

You discount the families interviewed on news outlets, print and digital media - and you are saying they are not credible? You're basically saying they are lying. You're getting closer to Shanghai with every post you make.

I don't think Disney was aware of a specific, elevated dangerous risk being present at that time vs the normal risks associated with the locale. We have no informed, credible sources citing that there was a dangerous gator who had been active leading up to this. If we are going to advocate Lane from Nebraska doesn't know anything about gators... why are we trusting Jane from Idaho on what are meaningful gator sightings and risks as proof of a pending elevated risk?

Simply because there have been dozens of articles on the topic doesn't mean crap... 99% of them are just parrotting the same stuff, and every source has been people unqualified to even cite the relevant metrics that matter, let alone be qualified to make the judgement you all now take as gospel.

So I don't misinterpret your position, you think Mark the Janitor, random guests talking to anyone with a website are all now experts in alligator assessments? I simply point you back to an earlier post.. because it addresses this concisely and so I don't repeat myself.

Seeing a 'a gator' is not a problem and is common.
Seeing a 'a large gator that is encroaching on humans' is a problem

Notice what is lacking from every 'I saw a gator too!!' story? Informed estimates on size and the risk associated with the gator.

If new information is revealed that establishes that there was a new elevated risk present and Disney as a whole did not respond... then I'm game to challenge that. But 'hey, I saw an alligator too!' stories or 'hey, I saw an alligator snap' stories alone aren't it.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
Why didn't you report them? You guys are all blaming all powerful Disney. But not one person has said that they reported an illegal act. You own a timeshare in a state but you don't know the laws of that state?
That's a problem.
Did I say I didn't know the laws in the state? You probably need to take a break here because at this point you are just getting worked up and hostile for no reason. Personal attacks aren't really necessary. It's Ok for people to disagree on things. It's just a discussion.

Should I have reported it? Probably. But do you report every illegal act you witness? If a guy crosses the street against a red light do you call 911 and report him for jaywalking? Do you call 911 and report someone for speeding in the lane next to you? To bring it back to Disney, if before they installed the chips did you always report people who helped themselves to "free" soda at the drink machines? I'm on vacation to relax and spend time with my family not police the resort. While I didn't think feeding the animals was a great idea I didn't think it was overly dangerous at the same time either.
 

kelknight84

Well-Known Member
Reading back through some of these posts I find it unreal how references are made to swimming in the ocean and sharks. Disclosure - I live on the intra-coastal in Martin county so I have seen this. Non-Floridians or those that don't live near the ocean probably have not.

Do you realize what happens when a shark is spotted near a shoreline? Do you really? It's chaotic. Everyone is forced from the water. Barriers and signs are erected warning people not to venture back into the water. Helicopters are spotted overhead. Anyone seeing the scene this creates pretty much gets the picture. Now imagine a shark sighting on South Beach in Miami. You think the lifeguard is just going say "Yep, It's the Ocean..there are sharks"
I live in Pinellas county, and when there are sharks the lifeguard puts up the purple wildelife flag. Then it is up to people if they swim or not. No news, no big fan fare, it's usual business around here....
 

raymusiccity

Well-Known Member
Exactly. I do think if they have signs warning of gators it will give people a reminder that they are still in a natural area with dangerous wild animals.

It looks like they'll need to make some serious changes to the fire pit location at BLT. Not only is it at the water's edge, but, the combination of marshmallows and gators make for a dangerous scenario. I think there's a video posted somewhere of a wrangler luring an alligator from the water near Splash Mountain with a trail of marshmallows!

1980-01-01 019.JPG
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Did I say I didn't know the laws in the state? You probably need to take a break here because at this point you are just getting worked up and hostile for no reason. Personal attacks aren't really necessary. It's Ok for people to disagree on things. It's just a discussion.

Should I have reported it? Probably. But do you report every illegal act you witness? If a guy crosses the street against a red light do you call 911 and report him for jaywalking? Do you call 911 and report someone for speeding in the lane next to you? To bring it back to Disney, if before they installed the chips did you always report people who helped themselves to "free" soda at the drink machines? I'm on vacation to relax and spend time with my family not police the resort. While I didn't think feeding the animals was a great idea I didn't think it was overly dangerous at the same time either.
So Disney is to blame for guests feeding alligators, but their guests who were witnessing it weren't reporting it? Bravo. You should be applauded. Jaywalking won't bring danger to mine or anyone else's family. Standing by and watching someone feed an alligator could. But it's easier to blame the big powerful company, because it happened on their property and they should have eyes everywhere. Because people can't be trusted to do the right thing.

You're right. This has gone so far off the deep end. I can't even wrap my head around what people are saying. Maybe next time you'll do something if you're so concerned.

And now another person wants to ban the marshmallow roasting. W. T. H.
Have fun with this ridiculousness
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
Reading back through some of these posts I find it unreal how references are made to swimming in the ocean and sharks. Disclosure - I live on the intra-coastal in Martin county so I have seen this. Non-Floridians or those that don't live near the ocean probably have not.

Do you realize what happens when a shark is spotted near a shoreline? Do you really? It's chaotic. Everyone is forced from the water. Barriers and signs are erected warning people not to venture back into the water. Helicopters are spotted overhead. Anyone seeing the scene this creates pretty much gets the picture. Now imagine a shark sighting on South Beach in Miami. You think the lifeguard is just going say "Yep, It's the Ocean..there are sharks"

And how long are the beaches closed? How far into the future does Marin County warn new bathers that a shark was seen in the past? Did Marin county then change how the beach was accessed for all future bathers? Because that's what people are saying here is an appropriate response to your sighting.

Up here in the mid-atlantic, they clear swimmers from the water when an immediate threat is seen, then after a reasonable time, the world comes back to order and everyone returns to normal life... because the IMMEDIATE elevated danger is gone. Helicopters? Barriers? hahah We have a lifeguard with a whistle and flags... that works just fine.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Expanding alligator and human populations has led to increased contact, with some people behaving unwisely due to ignorance during these encounters.

Decades ago, alligators were approaching extinction. Alligators were an endangered species until 1987, when the Fish and Wildlife Service pronounced them as fully recovered.

Yet it wasn't until 2002 that there was a noticeable increase in the number of alligator attacks:

alligator-attacks.jpg



It's all well-and-good to mention so-and-so number of deaths in the last so-and-so decades. According to this chart, there were 5 deaths in 2015 alone. The problem is getting worse because:
  • Larger humans and alligator populations have resulted in more encounters.
  • Uninformed people have been feeding alligators during these increased encounters.
Government agencies and outdoor businesses typically warn visitors when dangerous animals are present. Posted warnings about sharks or bears are common practice, even though both are relatively rare compared to the over one million alligators in the state of Florida alone.

Disney euthanized 5 nearby alligators within hours of this tragedy. WDW has a lot of alligators.

Disney also has a lot of visitors from other parts of the World who don't know that on-property alligators are common, and don't know feeding them causes alligators to change their behaviors.

Disney should have done more to warn Guests.

And perhaps more than anything, people who continue to feed alligators should be punished.
 
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