From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[21stamps]

Expanding alligator and human populations has led to increased contact, with some people behaving unwisely due to ignorance during these encounters.

Decades ago, alligators were approaching extinction. Alligators were an endangered species until 1987, when the Fish and Wildlife Service pronounced them as fully recovered.

Yet it wasn't until 2002 that there was a noticeable increase in the number of alligator attacks:

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It's all well-and-good to mention so-and-so number of deaths in the last so-and-so years. According to this chart, there were 5 deaths in 2015. The problem is getting worse because:

• Larger humans and alligator populations have resulted in more encounters.
• Uninformed people have been feeding alligators during these increased encounters.

Government agencies and outdoor businesses typically warn visitors when dangerous animals are present. Posted warnings about sharks or bears are common practice, even though both are relatively rare compared to the over one million alligators in the state of Florida alone.

Disney euthanized 5 nearby alligators within hours of this tragedy. WDW has a lot of alligators.

Disney also has a lot of visitors from other parts of the World who don't know that on-property alligators are common.

Disney should have done more to warn Guests.

And perhaps more than anything, people who continue to feed alligators should be punished.

.....and perhaps people who witness the feeding should be responsible and tell them to stop, and tell them it's illegal and why, or report them. How else do you expect punishment to happen if authorities do not know?
Because we all just continually pass blame to the next guy.. Heaven forbid we ever take personal accountability.

 

[G00fyDad]

.....and perhaps people who witness the feeding should be responsible and tell them to stop or report them. How else do you expect punishment to happen if authorities do not know?
Because we all just continually pass blame to the next guy.. Heaven forbid we ever take personal accountability.

To play devil's advocate here.... exactly what do you expect Disney to do to someone if you go report them? Even if Disney can locate the people that were feeding the alligators what are they supposed to do to them?

 

[GoofGoof]

So Disney is to blame for guests feeding alligators, but their guests who were witnessing it weren't reporting it? Bravo. You should be applauded. Jaywalking won't bring danger to mine or anyone else's family. Standing by and watching someone feed an alligator could. But it's easier to blame the big powerful company, because it happened on their property and they should have eyes everywhere. Because people can't be trusted to do the right thing.

You're right. This has gone so far off the deep end. I can't even wrap my head around what people are saying. Maybe next time you'll do something if you're so concerned.

And now another person wants to ban the marshmallow roasting. W. T. H.
Have fun with this ridiculousness

Actually, if a person jaywalks it could result in a vehicle accident and could impact other guests. The people who are feeding the alligators are wrong. Nobody is disputing that. I'm not blaming Disney for their actions. All that I'm asking Disney for is to publicize the rule with signs and info at check in and then enforce the rules. It's a really simple change that could go a long way to helping make positive change. I'm not trying to make an excuse for the guy feeding a gator, but maybe he really didn't know it was against the rules and the law.

 

[21stamps]

To play devil's advocate here.... exactly what do you expect Disney to do to someone if you go report them? Even if Disney can locate the people that were feeding the alligators what are they supposed to do to them?

One phone call. You don't need to go on a hunt for the nearest employee. Your assumption is "They won't do anything so I shouldn't report it."
That's horrible logic. It's passing blame.

Your next post says make people aware- you were aware, yet did nothing. So please stop with the "well would you if you witnessed a jaywalking?". It's deflection. Anyway, I have to go.. Have a wonderful day.

Oops- I quoted the wrong person. Sorry the "goof" names threw me off.

 

[G00fyDad]

One phone call. You don't need to go on a hunt for the nearest employee. Your assumption is "They won't do anything so I shouldn't report it."
That's horrible logic. It's passing blame.

Okay. I've asked you before to remain calm. Stop making assumptions about me. I said I was playing devils advocate here. Just throwing things out here.

Now... Say you make that call. I ask you again... what do you expect Disney to do about it?

 

[ParentsOf4]

.....and perhaps people who witness the feeding should be responsible and tell them to stop, and tell them it's illegal and why, or report them. How else do you expect punishment to happen if authorities do not know?
Because we all just continually pass blame to the next guy.. Heaven forbid we ever take personal accountability.

I have been going to WDW for decades. I've never counted but it's certainly more than 50 trips, perhaps approaching 100. I'm pretty sure I've spent over 1 year (365 days) on property.

I have never seen someone feeding an alligator and seen an alligator only twice, both from a distance. (Once from a car and once from the Monorail.) Among the things I learned this week:

• Alligators are incredibly common at WDW.
• Alligators are more active at night.
• Feeding alligators changes their behavior.
• Guests feed alligators all too often.

Now that I know these things, if I ever see someone feeding an alligator, I will report it immediately.

The thing is, Disney has a large security staff and outdoor cameras everywhere. Ultimately, Disney needs to take responsibly for policing this.

Even if I report it, it's Disney that needs to take action.

 

[Matt_Black]

To play devil's advocate here.... exactly what do you expect Disney to do to someone if you go report them? Even if Disney can locate the people that were feeding the alligators what are they supposed to do to them?

"Hey, were you feeding the wildlife?"
"Why, no! What wildlife?"

Unless they're caught red-handed, it becomes one guest's word against another's.

 

[ParentsOf4]

"Hey, were you feeding the wildlife?"
"Why, no! What wildlife?"

Unless they're caught red-handed, it becomes one guest's word against another's.

Not with Disney's extensive monitoring system in place. The cameras that are there to protect Disney against liability also can be used to monitor Guests feeding alligators.

 

[21stamps]

I have been going to WDW for decades. I've never counted but it's certainly more than 50 trips, perhaps approaching 100. I'm pretty sure I've spent over 1 year (365 days) on property.

I have never seen someone feeding an alligator and seen an alligator only twice, both from a distance. (Once from a car and once from the Monorail.) Among the things I learned this week:

• Alligators are incredibly common at WDW.
• Alligators are more active at night.
• Feeding alligators changes their behavior.
• Guests fed alligators all to often.

Now that I know these things, if I ever see someone feeding an alligator, I will report it immediately.

The thing is, Disney has a large security staff and outdoor cameras everywhere. Ultimately, Disney needs to take responsibly for policing this.

Wow. So we should all walk around this world not worrying about anything. There's people who's job is to pick up trash- so we should let it lay on the ground. There's police to catch bad guys- so we don't need to worry when we witness a crime. There's Disney- who should now hire enough people to have them posted every 10 feet- in case someone feeds a gator.

I'm floored. Absolutely floored. This makes me sad for mankind.

I'm going swimming, and try to forget all of this nonsense that I've read today. People can be so shocking, not always in a good way.

 

[G00fyDad]

"Hey, were you feeding the wildlife?"
"Why, no! What wildlife?"

Unless they're caught red-handed, it becomes one guest's word against another's.

Exactly! This is why the other poster's idea of educating at check-in and adding more signs is the best option. Of course there a great many people that do not stay on property or who are there as day guests. There is no perfect solution, but running around responding to every call from someone complaining of wildlife feeders is even farther away from the best solution.

 

[G00fyDad]

Not with Disney's extensive monitoring system in place. The cameras that are there to protect Disney against liability also can be used to monitor Guests feeding alligators.

Just sayin', it isn't Vegas.

 

[trr1]

Wow. So we should all walk around this world not worrying about anything. There's people who's job is to pick up trash- so we should let it lay on the ground. There's police to catch bad guys- so we don't need to worry when we witness a crime. There's Disney- who should now hire enough people to have them posted every 10 feet- in case someone feeds a gator.

I'm floored. Absolutely floored. This makes me sad for mankind.

I'm going swimming, and try to forget all of this nonsense that I've read today. People can be so shocking, not always in a good way.

Have a nice swim and may I suggest visiting other threads. That may help you forget and see the nice side of people

 

[Matt_Black]

Just sayin', it isn't Vegas.

Yeah, if Disney's monitoring system was as great as some are touting, I doubt that one Columbia House CM would have made off with the thousands of dollars that she was alleged to have stolen.

 

[JohnD]

Is there more Disney could have done to mitigate against alligator attacks? Absolutely. Would it have prevented the attack? No one will ever know. That's all they can do is implement policies and procedures to mitigate against it.

 

[flynnibus]

Not with Disney's extensive monitoring system in place. The cameras that are there to protect Disney against liability also can be used to monitor Guests feeding alligators.

You're talking about the wide open spaces... Disney doesn't have 1ft video surveillance over every public area of the property.

Contrast this with Disney retail locations where Disney has cameras everywhere... yet they still won't actively pursue shoplifters.

There is endless amounts of crime that goes unpursued because the police simply don't have the resources to chase everyone. Wildlife Commission is probably even MORE constrained.

Lets be honest... this is an area that only morals will change behavior... threat of prosecution is so low its not really a deterrent for most.

 

[Matt_Black]

The only other possible way I could see to deter feeding is to increase food prices. You'd be much less willing to part with that churro is you paid 30 bucks for it.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Wow. So we should all walk around this world not worrying about anything. There's people who's job is to pick up trash- so we should let it lay on the ground. There's police to catch bad guys- so we don't need to worry when we witness a crime. There's Disney- who should now hire enough people to have them posted every 10 feet- in case someone feeds a gator.

I'm floored. Absolutely floored. This makes me sad for mankind.

I'm going swimming, and try to forget all of this nonsense that I've read today. People can be so shocking, not always in a good way.

Please stop ignoring what I write to fit your agenda. What I wrote is nothing at all like what you are trying to twist it into.

Guests and Disney both bare responsibility. However, as a business inviting customers onto its property to conduct commerce, the law requires Disney to assume responsibility above-and-beyond the casual Guest.

If someone is smashing glass bottles on property, do you expect Disney to ignore it when they see it?

If I see it first, do you expect me to make a citizen's arrest or to contact Disney?

I don't have to post "don't feed the alligator" signs. Disney does.

I don't have to confront Guests who are behaving recklessly. Disney does.

I bare a moral obligation to report incidents to Disney but, ultimately, Disney needs to act.

 

[kelknight84]

Please stop ignoring what I write to fit your agenda. What I wrote is nothing at all like what you are trying to twist it into.

Guests and Disney both bare responsibility. However, as a business inviting customers onto its property to conduct commerce, the law requires Disney to assume responsibility above-and-beyond the casual Guest.

If someone is smashing glass bottles on property, do you expect Disney to ignore it when they see it?

If I see it first, do you expect me to make a citizen's arrest or to contact Disney?

I don't have to post "don't feed the alligator" signs. Disney does.

I don't have to confront Guests who are behaving recklessly. Disney does.

I bare a moral obligation to report incidents to Disney but, ultimately, Disney needs to act.

The glass bottle would be an immediate concern. Gators are known to be in the water and rarely are an immediate threat. There was no imminent threat or danger.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Lets be honest... this is an area that only morals will change behavior... threat of prosecution is so low its not really a deterrent for most.

I think we both agree that Disney is never going to be able to catch many (most?) incidents of Guests feeding alligators. However, to date, it appears that Disney has been ignoring all of them.

Disney needs to change its behavior and start prosecuting instances that it knows about, and needs to make a public spectacle of these cases to deter other Guests.

Based on what I know so far, I'd guess that Guests feeding alligators is a root cause of the problem. These Guests need to be punished. However, Disney needs to take a more active role than it has in the past.

 

[Matt_Black]

I bare a moral obligation to report incidents to Disney but, ultimately, Disney needs to act.

And what, do you suggest they do? They already tell guests not to feed the animals. Disney is NOT a law enforcement agency. The worst that any guest suspected of feeding animals is going to get is an exceedingly polite reminded to not do it again.