From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[AEfx]

OMG! Alligators in Florida! You'd think its a B movie with one waiting for you around every corner.

Tell that to the parent of the kid who was obeying the no-swimming sign and standing in an inch or two of water and is dead now.

You guys really need to stop with this stuff. It's making us all look bad.

 

[JohnD]

Yes, but the point is - they haven't exploited it really any more because it was WDW. If this was at Myrtle Beach it would have made the same headlines. It just wouldn't have hung around as long because Disney is already implementing changes.

If anything, Disney WANTS the story to continue and has encouraged it so the media covers their efforts to keep guests safe. Disney doesn't want this to end with "kid dead at WDW" and just leave that taste in future guest's mouths. They want the media to report that they are taking measures to keep this from happening again.

Those are certainly conspiratorial motives you are assigning there. I think Disney would rather wish this never happened. Everyone wishes that. There is a dead child as a result. They're putting up the signs and fencing because they have to not because they are seeking publicity for it.

 

[JohnD]

Tell that to the parent of the kid who was obeying the no-swimming sign and standing in an inch or two of water and is dead now.

You guys really need to stop with this stuff. It's making us all look bad.

I said it already. It's a freak tragedy. Horrible. But the media is playing it up as if an alligator is waiting to eat every single guest on property. But please don't lecture me while you assign motives to Disney for wanting to keep the story going to make themselves look good. That kind of thinking is just sick.

 

[AEfx]

Those are certainly conspiratorial motives you are assigning there. I think Disney would rather wish this never happened. Everyone wishes that. There is a dead child as a result. They're putting up the signs and fencing because they have to not because they are seeking publicity for it.

Of course everyone wished it didn't happen. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

However, given that the WDW media relations has been making regular comments and updates to the media, there is no "conspiratorial" silliness to be had. That's their job. This is PR 101 - and so far, Disney has done everything right. It's a good thing. There is no shame or anything wrong with Disney wanting folks to know that they are taking measures to address this. It's expected and they are meeting expectations.

So I don't know what you are arguing about, this stuff is all pretty clear, so I'll just leave you to your nonsense.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

At certain times of the year DL is your best park. Personally I prefer it 100% in the hottest part of the summer because it isn't as humid and hot as WDW... And no matter what anyone wants to say the rides of both resorts are pretty close to even with only minor differences.

Thats the plan, next summer. We went a few years ago in the spring before my daughter started gradeschool and we all prefered many aspecs of it to WDW. Stayed offsite but could walk to gates in 15mins. More small kid rides, no magic bands so less planning required, less empty space between rides and better QS options. We loved it

 

[Bocabear]

Regardless, most tourists do not know about it, and there have been documented deaths at WDW over it.

documented death...not deaths. and it was in 1980, and the park remained open for another 21 years... The amoeba thing is as rare as the alligator attack... I don't think we will ever see another attack. I am sure just as in the case with the ONE amoeba death, that Disney will do what is necessary to make sure it really never happens again.

 

[JohnD]

Of course everyone wished it didn't happen. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

However, given that the WDW media relations has been making regular comments and updates to the media, there is no "conspiratorial" silliness to be had. That's their job. This is PR 101 - and so far, Disney has done everything right. It's a good thing. There is no shame or anything wrong with Disney wanting folks to know that they are taking measures to address this. It's expected and they are meeting expectations.

So I don't know what you are arguing about, this stuff is all pretty clear, so I'll just leave you to your nonsense.

But "wanting" the story to continue? You're twisted and demented in your thinking.

 

[kelknight84]

Returning to this thread and seeing it devolve into nonsense like this is just really a sad day for our forum.

On this absurd point in particular, actually, the richer people are more likely to travel with their own food - because they wouldn't pay $300-400 for a meal the quality that even the "best" WDW restaurants offer. The people that do that are the same ones that go broke staying at standard rooms at the monorail resorts who eat boxed macaroni and cheese three times a week the rest of the year to afford it.

This was clearly a tragic incident, and one that, yes, Disney could have done a better job at informing guests about the risk since it was so well-known locally. Disney's signs were inadequate, more like "keep off the lawn" suggestions.

That said, I applaud the new signs. Disney has done what they had to do.

Long term, I think you'll find the lagoon is going to be significantly altered over this. And I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. It's probably time for a change. At the least they are going to start putting up proper fencing. You ever notice how practically every back yard in Orlando housing developments have pools and are completely enclosed by alligator-resistant screen rooms? It would be one thing if Disney simply had no clue they were out there - but they do, they have programs for dealing with them - in hindsight, yes, it was inadequate.

When you add the known fact of alligator feeding at WDW, there is yet another factor as to why it may not have happened before but it's happening now. What all else people seem to be arguing about is completely beyond me. This isn't about replicated animal poop candy or an attraction, this is a known regional problem that WDW has pretty much created the "perfect storm" of factors to set up for this situation to happen and there is every reason to believe if nothing is done that it will happen again.

The screen rooms are for bugs. Gators easily get through them and take a dip in the pool quite frequently.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

http://www.panterlaw.com/News-Resources/Legal-Articles/Premises-Liability-in-Florida.shtml
I posted that for those who don't seem to understand how clear the law is on this

 

[surfsupdon]

Seeing a 'a gator' is not a problem and is common.
Seeing a 'a large gator that is encroaching on humans' is a problem

Notice what is lacking from every 'I saw a gator too!!' story? Informed estimates on size and the risk associated with the gator.

The threat, or risk, was allowing Guests to feed the gator. By also calling the gator our "honorary pet" or "resident pet," it may take the ferociousness factor away from some Guests. The term "pet" does not coincide with a potentially dangerous wild animal.

I do agree that seeing a gator is not a problem.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

A counterpoint that completely ignores entire dimensions of common knowledge, probability, and what behavior triggers it. When your guest cracks open a beer they brought, did you stop them and make sure they know all the potential hazzards drinking has before you allow them to continue on actions they initiated themselves?

You're comparing something that poses an immediate or imminent threat of physical harm (potentially fatal) with a causality of a lifestyle choice that is predicated by an addiction. Really? That's not a counterpoint. That is an absolute fairy tale.

 

[flynnibus]

The threat, or risk, was allowing Guests to feed the gator. By also calling the gator our "honorary pet" or "resident pet," it may take the ferociousness factor away from some Guests. The term "pet" does not coincide with a potentially dangerous wild animal.

A lion cub is seen as a cute too... very different from a full grown lioness. They don't need to be scared of all alligators... just the alligators that pose a threat. Which is also why Disney and FWC don't act on small gators. Too numerous and not harmful.

The idea that people were desensitized to gators or 'alligators are our friends' is not an issue in this situation or lead up... in fact quite the opposite it seems as everyone is scared to death of gators. The problem with these citations is they lack the significant factors that tie them to actual concerns verse everyday occurrences.

As for feeding... its a problem, but the feeding alone didn't create this situation or incident. Other FAR more significant factors were in play.

 

[flynnibus]

You're comparing something that poses an immediate or imminent threat of physical harm (potentially fatal) with a causality of a lifestyle choice that is predicated by an addiction. Really? That's not a counterpoint. That is an absolute fairy tale.

It highlights the broad, overreaching, ill defined logic you postulated. My example meets all the requirements of your 'test' yet as you say, it leads to a ridiculous outcome. Because your test and standard is horribly flawed and incomplete. Which makes it a pitiful standard to advocate towards.

 

[flynnibus]

http://www.panterlaw.com/News-Resources/Legal-Articles/Premises-Liability-in-Florida.shtml
I posted that for those who don't seem to understand how clear the law is on this

Sorry to inform you that the situation here is not simply covered by a two page blog post.... one that doesn't even begin to approach the conditions in play. Go back many pages if you want some more references a bit more on target.

 

[GoofGoof]

Uh Jacares or alligator crocodilians are common in Brazil.

I'll try one more time. You are saying alligators are common in Brazil. Nobody is disputing that. It's also completely irrelevant. What I'm saying is that if a tourist comes from another country (like Brazil) or another part of the US how do we know they are knowledgeable about the presence of alligators at WDW? The assumption that everyone who visits WDW is intimately familiar with WDW and its wildlife is flawed. For a lot of visitors it may be their first time to WDW or even Florida. They could be very aware of the dangers of alligators from having them back home but that doesn't mean they are aware that they exist at WDW.

So you are now conceding that the alligator fatality is a freak of nature event like being killed by lightning. Got it.

When did I ever say it wasn't a rare event? You seem to just be arguing with anyone for the sake of arguing. My opinion on this is pretty simple to follow, but I'll summarize again. The attack was a rare occurrence. It's only the second time in 45 years an alligator has attacked a person on property and the first fatality. But hindsight is 20/20. If Disney had better signs or warnings to guests this may have been avoided (it may not have too, not everyone cares to follow warnings or signs). For the sake of protecting their guests Disney should add signage and warnings at checkin. It's a very easy fix for them and if it can even prevent one tragedy every 20-30 years it's very worth doing. The fence is probably not necessary but once it's up it will be hard to get rid of. They also need to very strictly enforce the rule against feeding alligators and make sure it's publicized.

From a legal liability standpoint I think Disney will settle out of court to avoid bad PR and prolonged media coverage. I do think that Disney has a decent leg to stand on if they wanted to go to court. I don't think they were necessarily negligent in this case due to the no swimming signs and the rarity of this type of attack. The one area that they could be found at fault is their lack of enforcing rules against feeding the gators. If any of these stories is true and there are CMs who would testify that they reported things that were ignored by management that could be bad for them.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

It highlights the broad, overreaching, ill defined logic you postulated. My example meets all the requirements of your 'test' yet as you say, it leads to a ridiculous outcome. Because your test and standard is horribly flawed and incomplete. Which makes it a pitiful standard to advocate towards.

How is it flawed. Oh, please do explain o'insightful one. Let's twist your analogy a bit. Let's say you saw on the news that Guinness was recalling beer due to a potentially harmful situation caused by pathogens due to an error in a brewing facility. Your buddy comes over and brings with him a six pack of - you guessed it - Guinness beer. You going to at least mention to him what you saw on the news a little earlier? Maybe kind of give him a "heads up"? Or you gonna stick to your guns and say no "He should be aware of the risks of drinking".

That's what we're talking about here. Employees and Other Guests, made complaints prior to this incident. Disney did nothing, other than rely on a basic "No Swimming" sign. Keep digging yourself further into the hole. You'll come out in Shanghai soon.

 

[GoofGoof]

Funny people aren't upset at Disney for preventing the rain

Clearly Disney needs to bring back discovery island so it can remind people there are living things in these woods and waters.

I mean if this was the bellagio lagoon... Maybe. But are we really saying guests can't digest those are REAL woods and swamps...? God help us

I think people have a false sense of security when they are in the bubble. Unlike a lot of the people who post on here who are cynical and jaded against Disney, most guests feel that Disney would never put them in a situation that could be dangerous. Seven Seas Lagoon is filled with resort shuttles and boats moving people between TTC and MK. It has the 3 resorts and the monorail around its perimeter. It doesn't really feel that much like wilderness. I would say a lot more people would be more cautious on Bay Lake then SSL because of its a more natural setting. Obviously now that will change and most people will be aware and if they aren't the signs will tell them.

 

[flynnibus]

That's what we're talking about here. Employees and Other Guests, made complaints prior to this incident. Disney did nothing, other than rely on a basic "No Swimming" sign. Keep digging yourself further into the hole. You'll come out in Shanghai soon.

If you are willing to stand on the reports we have so far as the damning evidence... there is nothing I can say that will change your mind because you are overeager to believe the predetermined outcome.

And your analogy doesn't meet the tests of your original statement.. it introduces a new condition, a localized threat that is an increased risk vs the commonly known, usual risk levels.

It's the difference between 'beware, there are sharks in the ocean' vs 'beware, there was a dangerous shark just spotted in the water within the last few hours'

There is nothing credible cited in any of the news reports that Disney had any prior knowledge of a specific DANGEROUS gator in the area leading up to the incident. Guests reports of a gator... or reports of a history of people feeding gators... does not constitute the knowledge of a dangerous sized gator in the immediate area.

I'm amazed at just how eager people are willing to accept uninformed witness accounts as gospel of what is happening and what Disney did or didn't do... on reports that don't even cover the basics. If only we could figure out how to give a healthy dose of skepticism to the entire internet at once... to offset these sensationalism.

 

[21stamps]

Ok I'm breaking my rule but come on people!

Just stop!!! This is ridiculous. No. I don't think most people who vacation are clueless. If you are- then maybe it's time to google something besides tabloid magazines.

To say that because Disney picks you up and you stay on property so you shouldn't know about Florida is ignorant. Saying that people have screened in pools to keep gators out- ignorant. Those are for bugs. And plenty of people don't have screens on their pools.

If you go to a Beaches resort or any other all inclusive anywhere- they do not give you a pamphlet on local wildlife. Not in the Dominican Republic, not in Turks & Caicos, not in Arubu, and not at any water front resort that I know of in Florida.

If you don't know that you need a fishing license in Florida and you get a ticket- that's your fault.

Bottom line- Stop expecting the world to hand everything to you. Be responsible and know about where you are going. Take personal responsibility. It's frightening the amount of people who aren't!!!

This was a tragedy. I don't care if the people were from Nebraska, Texas, or Florida. Knowing about gators doesn't mean that someone can not be attacked. Doesn't mean we expect to be attacked. That is flawed logic. This entire thing is based on assumptions. And it's completely irrelevant. No one says about an attack "oh well they knew gators were in Florida, so it's less sad that they died."

They have placed signs and (hopefully) temporary fences..so now everyone will know. To those people who wants lakes drained or a wall built etc- please just vacation at a different destination. But guess what? Wherever you go will still have wildlife.

Please be logical. This isn't a time for mass hysteria. If you thought snakes and bugs and rain were all fake in Disney World- then seriously, please reavaluate any thought process you have. It was never a bubble it will never be a bubble. Most people know it is not some "sterile" bubble. Unless you truly thought you were driving through some invisible biodome when you entered the property.

Oh and if now we are blaming "rich people" society has sunk to a new low.

Lastly-We don't know if these people knew that gators exist. To me it doesn't matter or make it any less horrifying.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would love to see a photo of someone feeding the alligators from one of those bungalows. It just doesn't add up to me. If you have enough money to stay in them, I HIGHLY doubt you're out there on your deck grilling some chicken for the family meal. You'd be on the deluxe dining plan, eating at all the places I could never afford. I don't know, maybe I live in a fantasy world, but those articles are bogus.

I've never witnessed it personally, but sadly, I think it's pretty believable. I'm a DVC owner and could stay in those bungalows with points if I chose to, but probably never will. I've never been on the deluxe dining plan either. What I did witness at BC villas last summer was a guy feeding the alligator in the canal there leftover pizza crust from the pool deck. For anyone that has never been to BCV there is a separate DVC only pool in front of the DVC wing. Between the pool and the parking lot is a drainage canal that runs up to the building. This guy and his kids had ordered a pizza and at about 9:30 pm he decided to feed the leftovers to the turtles and gator. I didn't really think it was a good idea but didn't say anything at the time. After seeing this happen I would definitely step in now and say something or report him.

My point is that you wouldn't need to grill chicken for the gator. Those things probably eat mostly anything and even if you are on the deluxe dining plan you are likely to have leftovers.