Daniel Johnson
Well-Known Member
They were watching a movie on the beach
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From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon
- Thread starter simba2
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DisneyPrincess5
Well-Known Member
Agreed, sir.
An opinion can be a powerful motivator, yet a very dangerous weapon.
None of us will know what it's like to be in the minds and hearts of that family. No one is immune to making mistakes. No one is perfect. We cannot judge what happened here. It's not any of our place to do so. May those without sin cast the first stone.....
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I don't think Disney will let it go that far.
Nick Pappagiorgio
Well-Known Member
I have never filed a lawsuit (I've had cause too but we came to an agreement to stay out of court), but "decent" people file lawsuits all the time. It simply is a matter of the situation. Sometimes parties can come to an agreement, sometimes they need a court's help.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
It was 9pm. I've yet to be at a beach anywhere in my entire life that closed before or at 9pm.
Oh sorry. Ft Zachary Taylor. A state park. That one closes at 9 I think. So I'll rephrase "any private (condo/resort) or public beach.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
From a legal prospective this is likely true. They definitely don't want to litigate and would settle out of court if the family chose to sue.
From a practical standpoint this is just a horrible tragedy which is really a freak occurrence. Yes, there were gators in the water and Disney knew this, but the lake has been part of WDW for 45 years and there was never an incident like this. For the first 15 to 20 some odd years WDW allowed swimming in some of their lakes. I remember swimming in Bay Lake at CR in the 80s as a kid. River Country fed into Bay Lake too. The risk was always present but an incident never occurred. I am assuming that Disney chose not to post signs listing out the risk of things that are remote to happen. They probably didn't want to freighten guests. Looking back in hindsight now I wish they would have had signs or warnings and this never happened. I'm sure there will be beefed up signage and better security now, but that's little comfort to the family of the victim.
This is a true tragedy and I can't even imagine what the family must be going through. I have pictures of my son when he was 6 months old on the pier at Poly. He wasn't in the water, but it really hits home still.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
They do movies on the beach at night. It has to be dark to start the movie. I believe one just ended. Lots of people also go to the beach at Poly and GF to watch Wishes.
Most beaches will not have lifeguards on duty, etc but do not actually close. It's simply SWIM at your own risk. Again, IMO, there is a difference between swimming (actually getting my body into the water) versus wading - getting your feet wet. I spend lots of time at the ocean and even at fresh water beaches. I do not go swimming after dark. I have gotten my feet wet.
"El Gran Magnifico"
Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Okay. Going to try again. Previous post was not allowed due to "questionable" language directed at a few specific individuals who have posted.
When you visit Disney you have a "reasonable" expectation of safety.....why? Because Disney markets itself as a "controlled" environment. Two very important italicized words that will come into play shortly. Sure, you may get sick on a ride, (and if you have a health problem say "high" blood pressure you probably shouldn't be going on Space Mountain). I get it. But a family walking in foot of water that is merely yards from a Disney "sponsored" event at a Disney marketed "Deluxe" Resort, should have the reasonable expectation that their 2 year old child will not be hunted and plucked off of the shoreline of said Disney "Deluxe" Resort Hotel. Because if that type of threat exists, Disney has a legal obligation to inform of - and/or post notice of that threat. By all accounts, Disney knew. Disney may not have thought it would get to this point, but Disney damn sure knew there were alligators patrolling the waters of 7 Seas Lagoon (and probably all other waterways of the"kingdom"). As a native Floridian I've seen countless signs identifying this type of threat. Not just a token "No Swimming Sign".
When you visit Disney you have a "reasonable" expectation of safety.....why? Because Disney markets itself as a "controlled" environment. Two very important italicized words that will come into play shortly. Sure, you may get sick on a ride, (and if you have a health problem say "high" blood pressure you probably shouldn't be going on Space Mountain). I get it. But a family walking in foot of water that is merely yards from a Disney "sponsored" event at a Disney marketed "Deluxe" Resort, should have the reasonable expectation that their 2 year old child will not be hunted and plucked off of the shoreline of said Disney "Deluxe" Resort Hotel. Because if that type of threat exists, Disney has a legal obligation to inform of - and/or post notice of that threat. By all accounts, Disney knew. Disney may not have thought it would get to this point, but Disney damn sure knew there were alligators patrolling the waters of 7 Seas Lagoon (and probably all other waterways of the"kingdom"). As a native Floridian I've seen countless signs identifying this type of threat. Not just a token "No Swimming Sign".
Cletus
Well-Known Member
They actually promote being on the beach at night. This is from Yacht Club. People don't expect the situation that just happened.
wdwgreek
Well-Known Member
Just my two cents! If the no swimming sign wasn't sufficient to keep people out of the water, short of putting up a wall up what is the solution. Disney while negligent for not warning of alligators, was only contributorly negligent at best. The no swimming sign put the parents on notice that they should not be going into the water, and assumed the risk what ever those are of doing so. At the same time if custom dictates that a sign about alligators should be up or a sign that lists all the dangers like the water play signs in the parks then disney didn't do its full diligence. That said blame wise its 50/50 ignoring a no swimming sign is an assumption of risk akin to the swim at your own risk signs on the beach.
Dole Whip Happy Hour
Active Member
A family morns, parents,siblings, grandparents, aunts,uncles cousins
A community morns, neighbors, friends, babysitters
no judging or pointing fingers will change a thing for them
but what might help others is education.
All you out there that visit the world, multiple times a year or once in 5 years,
if you could remember this tragedy ,and if you do see a family drifting close to the water in the evening,
if you hear people on the buss talking about the beautiful beach, and how lovely it would be to dip their feet it in,
try to be calm and nice about reminding them that it is Florida and the water can be dangerous and why.. IF they have questions
about the water, ask them to talk to Disney cast/employees or the front desk about their policies if they don't believe you. Or just plain remind a Disney employee they should be shooing them away from the water.
Being from Wisconsin, I might never have known how serious the danger was, and after being a little shocked and have a question or two,I would thank you for taking the time to warn my family, other families might too. If not, you KNOW you did try.
I have not looked if it is there, but it would be good for this website and other non official Disney sites, to have simple post pinned under the Trip planning, (not some 30 pages, that gets lost with time,) in a simple non alarming way, some of the dangers that can be acknowledged and avoided, like why you don't go near the water, feeding the wildlife, the snakes for the people that are not from Florida. I know there is probably a reason for not doing this, but this website is about sharing and educating.
A community morns, neighbors, friends, babysitters
no judging or pointing fingers will change a thing for them
but what might help others is education.
All you out there that visit the world, multiple times a year or once in 5 years,
if you could remember this tragedy ,and if you do see a family drifting close to the water in the evening,
if you hear people on the buss talking about the beautiful beach, and how lovely it would be to dip their feet it in,
try to be calm and nice about reminding them that it is Florida and the water can be dangerous and why.. IF they have questions
about the water, ask them to talk to Disney cast/employees or the front desk about their policies if they don't believe you. Or just plain remind a Disney employee they should be shooing them away from the water.
Being from Wisconsin, I might never have known how serious the danger was, and after being a little shocked and have a question or two,I would thank you for taking the time to warn my family, other families might too. If not, you KNOW you did try.
I have not looked if it is there, but it would be good for this website and other non official Disney sites, to have simple post pinned under the Trip planning, (not some 30 pages, that gets lost with time,) in a simple non alarming way, some of the dangers that can be acknowledged and avoided, like why you don't go near the water, feeding the wildlife, the snakes for the people that are not from Florida. I know there is probably a reason for not doing this, but this website is about sharing and educating.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Yes, decent people could file a lawsuit in certain situations. I don't think decent people should file a lawsuit when really no one was at fault. And I don't see any fault on either side of this situation. Not on the parents allowing their child to be in/near the water, and not on Disney for not having gator warnings.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Oh I agree. But that's for the water, not the beach itself closing. I think there are a lot of people who won't swim in the ocean at night, but will walk on the shoreline.
me_stitch
Premium Member
If the movie just ended at 9 pm then it wasn't dark.
Nick Pappagiorgio
Well-Known Member
Your point is valid, but you assume we have all of the facts. What if we or the parents find out, for instance, that Disney cut its alligator management budget 2 months ago and was not managing the population like it had in the past? Or maybe a CM told them that wading was okay, even though swimming was not. I doubt either happened but companies have done crazier things in the past.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to "like" this time. But sadly agree. Sigh...
IanDLBZF
Well-Known Member
Good point, I also feel as if there should have been a sign saying "DANGER - ALLIGATORS PRESENT IN WATER NO SWIMMING OR WADING ALLOWED", along with proper parental supervision, then this incident would have NEVER happened in the first place!
HouseHacker97
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is at fault either. Ive been reading a lot of messages on Facebook and twitter that are blaming Disney for negligence and I'm simply trying to reiterate that Disney was not liable for this tragic incident. In florida, for those who didn't know, gators are literally everywhere. Disney regularly relocates gators to the best of their ability. 7SL is an extremely large body of water, and it sits in the center of Disney's property which is covered in wetlands. It's not like this was Lake Eola which is surrounded by highly populated and very busy streets and buildings, which makes it harder to find one there.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
We have sharks here in California but you won't really see "Warning Sharks." You see "Swimming not permitted" "Keep out of Water" but we know there are sharks here. the only time you'll see that is during peak season and when there is a sighting close to shore. But they close the beach for that
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