From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Im clean. for once.

 

[TeriofTerror]

For Disney, I think it's a case of complacency, of "familiarity breeds contempt." There have been scores of alligator sightings, but the last attack was 30 years ago. So when alligator sightings are reported, that only reinforced their belief that the gators had no desire to interract with guests.
I'm not saying this was smart; but I can see how human nature could have this tendency. And who is going to get a bonus at the management meeting by being the person who always complains about gators? No one.

 

[matt9112]

Sharks are in oceans, bears and bobcats are in the wilderness, killer bees can fly anywhere, gators are naturally in bodies of water in Florida.

Are signs posted on every beach in the world warning of sharks? Are signs posted in forests warning of bears?

Common sense, and less sense of "escaping reality because we are at Disney" seems to come into play here.

do millions of people hike to a specific part of a forest where bears may be every day? if your in the woods or even scuba diving your mindset revolves around wild life. in the former i would also be armed. at disney world ones mind set is on mickey mouse and roller coasters. your really splitting hairs.

 

[jaklgreen]

You miss read what I said. What I'm saying is that 90%+ of the people who are visiting WDW know there are gators in FL but less than half of those people expect to see one in the Seven Seas Lagoon. People expect WDW to be a safe and sterile environment. It's not the same thing as visiting the Everglades or even a beach or state park.

I understand what you are saying but disagree a bit. How many people actually know it is a "man made lake" instead of just a lake. It looks just like Bay lake and that one is not man made. And then from there to assume that is is alligator free. I think it is more along the lines that people think that there is a Disney World "bubble", the happiest place on Earth and that somehow Disney is able to keep all of their waterways alligator free. Do you think that as big of a property as WDW is that it is even possible to keep alligators out of it? Other then put warnings up, do you think there is something they can do to eliminate all alligators?

 

[JohnD]

I understand what you are saying but disagree a bit. How many people actually know it is a "man made lake" instead of just a lake. It looks just like Bay lake and that one is not man made. And then from there to assume that is is alligator free. I think it is more along the lines that people think that there is a Disney World "bubble", the happiest place on Earth and that somehow Disney is able to keep all of their waterways alligator free. Do you think that as big of a property as WDW is that it is even possible to keep alligators out of it? Other then put warnings up, do you think there is something they can do to eliminate all alligators?

The "man made lake" point is irrelevant. It's connected to Bay Lake via the Water Bridge. How often have gators shown up in retention ponds, etc. anywhere? It's a red herring argument.

 

[G00fyDad]

This thread really needs to be closed now.

 

[21stamps]

Death trap. I wonder if @21stamps would be in favor of bringing back the Contemporary Olympic sized pool, deep end and diving board and all. Kind of miss that...

Yes. I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I don't believe that everything and anything is a "death trap".

 

[raven]

Let's say it's true. What's your point? There was still a gator there stalking their child. Put your smugness away and go somewhere else.

Do you know how many gator accidents there have been in Florida? Is the county to blame because these attacks happened? Or the property owner where they happened? Take a look at past legal actions toward Disney and tell me how many of them win? They have teams of lawyers who will find the tiniest loophole in the story to keep from being responsible. I don't like it any more than anyone else but it's true.

 

[jaklgreen]

I agree. Don't get hung up on the term man made. That's probably mostly irrelevant to my point. IMHO SSL doesn't appear as "natural" to people because of the ferries, resorts and monorail. It's also part of the Disney bubble. I know there is no way for Disney to keep alligators out, but there is a common perception that WDW is a safe place so people let their guards down a little more than normal. I think adding signs and some form of warning at resort checkin would go a long way to making sure people understand or remember the dangers that are present.

I totally agree that most people assume Disney to be a safe place. And it is for the most part. I think most people assume that places like the local park is safe, and the trip to the grocery store will be safe. And for the most part they all are. Nobody expected this to happen. But freak accidents can and do happen. No matter how hard we try, we can not completely control nature. Now if this happened inside MK while walking down main street, then I would be all over Disney. But to have a freak thing happen outside in nature where nature is supposed to be then I can step back and look at it from that point of view and see it for what it was. That does not mean that I wish it never happened. No baby should die, especially like that. But I think it is just human nature to want to blame somebody.

 

[raven]

I totally agree that most people assume Disney to be a safe place. And it is for the most part. I think most people assume that places like the local park is safe, and the trip to the grocery store will be safe. And for the most part they all are. Nobody expected this to happen. But freak accidents can and do happen. No matter how hard we try, we can not completely control nature. Now if this happened inside MK while walking down main street, then I would be all over Disney. But to have a freak thing happen outside in nature where nature is supposed to be then I can step back and look at it from that point of view and see it for what it was. That does not mean that I wish it never happened. No baby should die, especially like that. But I think it is just human nature to want to blame somebody.

It's not uncommon. People let down their guard because they are in a "magical" place. You have to partly blame Disney for that because that's what the perception is. But it's very difficult to be carefree anywhere anymore.

 

[jaklgreen]

It's not uncommon. People let down their guard because they are in a "magical" place. You have to partly blame Disney for that because that's what the perception is. But it's very difficult to be carefree anywhere anymore.

I'm sorry but I do not blame Disney for being a vacation destination anymore then I would the beach or a park or a trip to the rainforest in Costa Rica. If someone lets their guard down, especially out in the open, that is not on Disney or anyone else. And of course they are going to portray themselves as a carefree place to bring your family. And for the most part it is.

 

[GoofGoof]

I totally agree that most people assume Disney to be a safe place. And it is for the most part. I think most people assume that places like the local park is safe, and the trip to the grocery store will be safe. And for the most part they all are. Nobody expected this to happen. But freak accidents can and do happen. No matter how hard we try, we can not completely control nature. Now if this happened inside MK while walking down main street, then I would be all over Disney. But to have a freak thing happen outside in nature where nature is supposed to be then I can step back and look at it from that point of view and see it for what it was. That does not mean that I wish it never happened. No baby should die, especially like that. But I think it is just human nature to want to blame somebody.

It is human nature to want to blame someone and I'm sure there will be a settlement whether Disney was in the wrong or not.

What I've learned from this tragedy and all of the discussion around is that not everyone was/is aware of the dangers of alligators at WDW. Whether thats reasonable or not and whether Disney has an obligation to inform or educate people has been at the core of the debate here. For Disney it's just easier to post the signs and warn guests at checkin. It would be easy and cost very little but could help save a life. It's a no brainer to do IMHO.

 

[flynnibus]

Having studied tort law you would be a fool to think DW has zero liability.

I like cake....

And that as much in common with my post you quoted... As your reply did. I didn't say anything about zero liability. I said that article falls far short of addressing the factors in play. Maybe one should study more?

 

[21stamps]

If anything positive came out of this thread I hope it's this-

To the people who thought that Disney Magic, was actually Magic, hopefully now you realize it isn't. For me that "magic" is the time spent with my loved ones, in an amazing place.

Maybe people also misunderstood what some people talk about when referring to a "Disney Bubble". It means surrounding yourself with Disney. Not an actual "sterile" environment cut off from the rest of the world.
We are doing our first ever exclusively Disney vacay this year- DCL/WDW- I refer to it as our first complete Disney bubble vacation.
I thought all people thought the same way, this thread is proof that some people took "magic" and "bubble" literally. So maybe something new was learned. Hopefully..

 

[flynnibus]

Have the parents filed a lawsuit?

No need to rush there... Plenty of time to do that well after they deal with burying their child. We shouldn't really lean on that delay as proof of anything

 

[wdwmagic]

Guys, please refrain from insults and fighting.

For those of you who continually ask for the thread to be closed, I suggest you do not read it.

As horrific as this tragedy was, it has brought up a great deal of questions that members here wish to discuss. As long as it is done within the rules of the site, it will remain open.

If any if you can't post within the rules, you will be prevented from posting in the tread. Thanks.

 

[betty rose]

Let's put it this way. I have a 2 year old right now. There is no amount of money that would make me want to trade places with these parents.

We have gone to Disney since they opened. DD was two at the time, years later we took one grandson at 6month's, the other three years. We never felt threatened, as we were told People went out every night to trap and take away snakes and alligators. It was Disney, and we believed them. Now, we have found out that the state of Florida has changed over time to repopulate the alligator population, and they have become a problem. We were never aware of the changes. This last trip we were threatened by a water moccasin. They are deadly. Our grandson was pulled away from that snake as it approached him, thrashing around and going toward him, thanks to our daughter's quick action he was pulled out of the way. Then it came after my husband, still trying to strike, he went backwards quickly, the snake turned toward me, and was aggressive, I yelled snake to alert those behind me while running backwards, as quick as we could. We got away just in time. This 6 foot snake came out of the plants, by the pool, not inside the pool, but the path by the pool. Out of no where we couldn't have prepared if we have wanted to. Quick thinking by our family saved us. We alerted a C.M. he wasn't alarmed, but said he would call it in. I'm not sure he took us seriously. Disney has taken the position, it's Florida, those are the risks. I'm not trying to start any argument, just to say.....it's Florida...there are risks. We live in Colorado and a bear was taken out of our daughter's neighborhood, it killed at pet. Every state has danger's from wildlife. People have a responsibility to warn people of their States dangers. We have gone to our Rocky Mountain National Park, we get a pamphlet every time we enter, about the dangers. Mountain lions, rattlesnakes, etc.

 

[BAChicagoGal]

Time will tell a lot in this situation. Will the family sue or not? Will the parents just walk away, never to be seen again. Or will they resurface at a later date in the future asking for something from the Disney Company? At that time, will witnesses come forward to discredit the parents? Time will tell.

Hopefully, the alligators will stay in the water, and nobody else will be harmed.

In the meantime, people have as many varied opinions, and the sands on the GF beach.

My husband and I were discussing this subject today, and both of us said that we would sue, if it happened to our child. However, we are basing that decision on circumstances we know nothing about. We weren't there. We don't know the facts. We may never know the full truth here. I can't speak for my husband, but I most likely would want to sue more out of anger, and pain, and disbelief than putting a price on the life of a human being. Most likely a knee jerk reaction. Ask me again some time in future. You might get a different answer.

The family has kept a low profile. I admire them for that. Only they know what truly happened. Time will tell if we hear from them again. We may not.

 

[BAChicagoGal]

Considering what it costs to take a WDW vacation, these days, I am always surprised when people do not educate themselves. The family in question here, has kept a low profile, and so we don't know all the facts. We don't know first hand, what they knew, and did not know. We can only speculate. Only say what we know, or assume. I have learned the hard way in life, never to make assumptions. More times than not I have been wrong.

 

[betty rose]

So if you are warned by a sign or in this case you know full well the dangers of Disney from this thread would you still go Disney?

Yes, we bought into DVC years ago. We will vacation differently. Take some protection from snakes, as in a whistle, I hope they hate loud sounds, and we are old and don't go out at night anymore. I will avoid beaches, and paths around beaches. It's okay with us , to do this as, we can't walk very far anymore. Find fault, if you want to, we are trying to take precautions, like we do where we live. Bear country. We have learned about the risks, and have learned from our state and phamplets, when we went to the National Parks. We don't go there anymore, not because of wild life. Because went can't drive to the mountains . But each state has it's own dangers. It's the obligation of a company , that says it takes safety first. To warn those that are unaware of the dangers to tell the visitors. We are proud that our state has done this for over 30 years, and has passed a law for businesses to do the same.