Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
I'll keep going and have a flawless and relaxing time with FP+.
I'm quite certain that even if you went and had issues of any type, this board would NEVER hear about it.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
FP+ meltdown part x
- Thread starter marni1971
- Start date
I'm quite certain that even if you went and had issues of any type, this board would NEVER hear about it.
prberk
Well-Known Member
I've never been called a "Vacation Dictator." My family sometimes found more "magical" descriptions... sometimes even adding creative ideas as to what exactly I could do with my dinner reservations...
I can't wait to tell them that we have guaranteed them to a credit card (especially theirs).
Last edited:
You stated that you had two questions about my post, but then you didn't ask a single one.
Your first point really just addresses the fact that FP+ requires some adjustment for everyone. The fact that people will learn that preplanning gets results doesn't change the referenced comment, nor does it really need to since my post didn't speak to whether people's feelings on this issue was actually correct or not.
Your second point doesn't really need to be replied to since it is completely supposition on your part that TPTB will turn FP+ into a pay-to-play benefit.
The system completely sucks now... That is a just a fact.... Been going for 30 years and two years My gf and I waited pretty much for nothing because we knew how to use the fast pass system...Now longer lines are the less good rides and have to plan months in advance.... Once you use all three you can get another one but the times suck by then.... Park hoping not as easy.... It's a complete f
Identifying problems is certainly important. However, these issues should be passed on to management, not shared with customers. It is never appropriate for a person in a CSR role to be acting in the manner mentioned in the earlier post.
An employee in a CSR role should never share his frustrations regarding the company with a customer. That simply isn't appropriate. Also, it doesn't serve your argument to invoke the name of Walt in such a discussion as he would no doubt have very quickly for acting in this manner. These employees are cast members, remember. They are to play a role, not give eyerolls.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
That's not really a "fact" at all. The new system is better for some people and worse for others compared to the past system. Some people like it, some people hate it, some people are in between. Some people like some aspects, but don't like others.
The reality is that any system is going to have some people than benefit more than others. Arguably, the benefits of FP+ are less able to be monopolized by superusers of the system.
IMHO, the reason why it is less beneficial to superusers is simply because more people are using the system that ever before. Previously, tons of guests ignored the paper FPs, so superusers could get multiple passes in a day and have very efficient and filled days at the parks. Now, thanks to heavy advertising, more guests are using FP+ than previously used FP (or using it more, getting 3 FP+ a day where they might have only gotten 1 or 2 paper FP in a day) leading to (1) less availability of "extra" FP on rides that previously had paper FP and (2) longer standby lines on rides that previously did not have paper FP.
This is not really "good" or "bad" just different. The people now using FP+ who would not have previously used paper FP are benefiting from some shorter waits that they would not have gotten. On the reverse, some superusers of paper FP are less able to do as much in a day since they cannot accumulate as many FP+ as they were able to get paper FP+.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Others might use less 'Magical terms - Slimy, Evil or Machiavellian all come to mind as terms which can be used on a family board.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
No, not at all. Just trying to say, that utilization pressures have forced WDW's hand, and they are mucking around with availability. I was taking it a step farther than you, and explaining WHY WDW has changed availability. I think WDW INTENDED to preserve some availability at 30 days, 1 week, day before. Just like I don't think WDW intended tiering, but they had no choice once people started actually USING the system. That's why you had an easier time at NYE because they were still able to run things more as they wanted. Despite attendance levels, fewer people were actually participating in advance booking that day, vs your autumn day. But as the complaints about failures to book between 60-30 days grew, the more they had to pull from the pool of "last-minute availability" and I'd bet they are pulling from standby as much as they feel the system will tolerate too.
I believe that resort guests were more lackadaisical about making their bookings, when it was still new, and before all the off-site people had access, as well. Many didn't believe it was necessary, "surely WDW wouldn't sell out rides so fast. They could wait." Utilization stayed below the point where capacity limitations kicked in. That's WDW's dirty little secret in all of this, the capacity for certain attractions can be completely filled by attendance levels on the slowest day. So when people actually use the advance booking tools, absolutely problems can exist on slow days in autumn, so just imagine what the busy days are like? And utilization increases even more?
Once the off-site people hit the system, people really started cracking the whip about make your reservations! Enough people listened, and it was a very quick process to drive the successful booking window to midnight @ 60 days. It's taken on a life of its own now, and the window will continue to be pushed out by all the 60+ days folks, and other attractions will start to see the most convenient times disappear as well. Thankfully, the rides most susceptible to that (HM, PoTC, Spaceship Earth) have massive capacity so it's been a slower process. But I am not comfortable saying that we'll never see booking issues for those rides, especially for busy holiday periods like your next NYE trip. All comes down to utilization vs capacity for individual rides. I'm curious to see how it goes. I expect to see more "there were NO good 4th FP option complaints, and more, I could only reserve this ride late at night, so now I can't even get a 4th FP posts!"
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
I love how you keep referring to 'superusers', The fact of the matter is that the new FP system effectively locks out FP access to headliners for anyone who does not or CANNOT plan their days at the 60 day window. Due to the nature of my business in the past would book a weekend getaway 2-3 weeks out, I've frequently cancelled vacations because a customer NEEDED ME and in my shop the CUSTOMER ALWAYS COMES FIRST.
By no means have I ever been a superuser I can't even recall when I used more than 2-3 FP's per day so we could ride a favorite headliner - but now I'm locked out of headliners unless I want to wait hours in line.
I really liked the pre-FP days better and by that I mean the days before the PAPER FP.
I do not believe for one second that the wait times for popular attractions because of FP+. I am 100% positive they went down due to changing the GAC to the DAS. When you no longer have people having unlimited access to the FP line, of course the wait time will go down.
People keep saying that Disney went to the DAS system because the amount of abuse with the GAC too heavily impacted the numbers in FP. That may be true, but I also wonder if they changed it when they did so they could use the decreased wait times as a sign that FP+ was working; or if it was just a happy coincidence they didn't expect and are secretly wiping their brows in relief that SOMETHING made the wait times go down and they can just claim that it was the $1.5B change and not the $500 one (I don't know how much DAS actually cost, but I'm sure it was practically free when you compare it to the cost of MM+.)
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I'm not as convinced (though I would agree that DAS has played a role). DLR would be an interesting control case for the theory though considering that paper FP has remained the same there during the switch from GAC to DAS. I wonder if anyone has the numbers there to calculate.
Yeah, I really wished they didn't do the GAC/DAS and FP+ changes so close together. Now we'll never know what kind of impact each one had individually unless, like you suggest, they test it at DL. I doubt they ever will, because I still think a majority of the affect is due to DAS, and Disney won't admit that FP+'a only effect was increasing SB times on less popular attractions! Lol.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
You're attacking me?? Who poked you? As a matter of fact I have had issues with other areas of Disney World before and have been vocal about it. I suggest you take the attitude elsewhere because it is sorely misplaced with me. I cannot help it if I have never had a single issue with FP+. If that annoys you then you may need to re-examine yourself.
Here's the thing: if I'm a CM and I'm talking to a guest like you, you better darn well believe I will keep my opinions to myself and my eyes LOCKED from moving in even the tiniest circular motion, because I can usually read people pretty well, and I can tell when someone does not want to know that I am a human who has thoughts and feelings and opinions that might not necessarily be 100% in line with the company. I will smile and say, "Oh, but this system is simply the most magical, innovative, efficient thing ever! I haven't had a single complaint, dear sir! Tra-laaah!"
On the other hand, if I'm a CM and I'm talking to a guest like @voodoo321, who seems slightly perplexed by it all and seems to be fishing for some proof that he's not alone in his confusion and frustration, then I'm gonna let my guard down a little bit and empathize with him because I can read that that's what he's wanting from me, and I feel comfortable that he's not gonna rat me out, and above all it lets him know that no, he's not the crazy one and he's not alone.
Good customer service is knowing what the customer wants from you and providing that. Within reason, of course.
Also, I think you misread what he meant by "eye roll." I took it as a good-natured, "Ahhh, relief that someone is relating to me and not yelling at me for something I can't fix," than a "Disney is STUPID duuuurrr," kind of eyeroll. Of course, voodoo321 will have to confirm that. I can only speculate.
Last edited:
Like hell they didn't have a choice. Sorry for the profanity but I do not believe a company that has ultimate power over how many passes it gives out and when cannot release them whenever they damn well please. The system, as it was proposed last year, was that they would give out X number of FP+ to onsite guests at this time, then X number to AP guests, then X number for day guests. That's the training CMs had. That's what many still believe is happening. It explains why when you wait to add a ticket to one of your guest accounts, Guest Relations assures you there will be no problem adding them to your FP+ bookings the day of. And why the poor frontline CMs manning the FP+ kiosks are shocked they cannot do the same because there are no FP+ left for POTC on a Tuesday afternoon.
I'm eagerly awaiting CMs being able to trial this system for themselves. They're given a 7 day window to book, right smack dab in the holiday season. They will have a blast learning the only things left to book are attractions they know don't need a FP+ in the first place.
As it stands now I just tried booking a ride on November 22 on TSMM. It's the 30 day window for my AP. I search for 4 people and they say TSMM is available. It lets me check it, but no times come up.
Ok, let me just try booking myself. That works. I'm offered 7 time slots throughout the day. I pick 1-2pm. Now I'll just go add 3 other family members to my FP+. (They all have active APs.)
Nope, not available. Ok, let me try just adding one. That works. Cool. Now let me add the other two. Guess what the time slot given for them is 6-7pm. A full 5 hours after me?! I figure I'll just book that and then change times for them. Easy, right? No, now the entire app has locked up and won't let me book them. And by the way I have been clicking through this little experiment to book one ride on the day my window opens for the last 20 minutes!
Now tell me this system is NOT broken and will lead to many magical vacations? Honestly, I think the people who are raving about FP+ went earlier this year when it was working. Anyone who's recently traveled there is seeing how horrible it has become. It's so useless you are better off going Standby. (or with DAS... welcome the DAS abusers back to the fold.)
The problem you will hear more of is people (like me) with holiday vacation plans who are not able to book the things they want at 60 days because availability is taken by the 60+ day guests. That's a roar that'll begin right around the time the Thanksgiving trippers book in about 4 days and reach a crescendo for the end of this month when Christmas & NYE trippers start booking.
The reply from the FP+ evangelists, I'm sure, will be "But this is the busiest time of year".
Last edited:
I don't want to degrade this into a GAC/DAS debate but the GAC abuse figures never did add up for WDW like they did DL. There were not that many GAC users in WDW. The figure came out to approximately 1% of the entire visitor population at any given time. DL had a use rate of 25%. I highly doubt the switch had anything to do with Standby times at WDW.
Standby waits may be up because FP+ is getting used more. I've been told by several CMs who worked attractions that FP always did make attractions slower and their jobs harder. Integrating the lines and checking times (which involves challenging guests who miss their window or misbehaving MagicBands) delays everyone. Not to mention Standby queues have natural end points. If the line gets to outside at the entrance then people will self moderate and come back later. That means the only delay you have with the attraction is if it breaks down or you have a problem loading a particular guest.
Gahhhh, okay, I'll bite. We were monitoring GAC usage for months before the switch at major attractions, counting every single person that came through the FP line with them. Then, once DAS switched over, we kept monitoring the lines. Disney will never release the numbers, I'm sure, because like I said, they want FP+ to take all the credit. But from Christmas season with GAC compared to the next Christmas season with DAS, SB wait times were on average 10-15 minutes less* with DAS compared to GAC despite similar park attendance numbers.
*At least at the two major attractions I worked at the time.
I will agree with you on two counts - that only 1% of people had them at WDW (however, they were accounting for 10-15% of the FP line at any given time, which is a significant impact), and that DL had far, far worse abuse. Seriously, I don't know how that park even functioned. Although, I'm just going by what happened with Radiator Springs. When we were there in the off season in early January 2011, I saw maybe three total SAPs any time we went through FP (and I was looking for them!)
Last edited:
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Oh I just love the political-nature of these discussions, and the loaded language that comes along with it (not really, it's rather eye-roll inducing).
The irony of referring to those that used the previous FP system as intended as "superusers", though - that's a new one.
Proponents of FP+ like to pretend that FP was somehow esoteric or complex when it was so simple it was described in a few sentences on the guide map. You could easily get 3 FP a day - you walk up to a kiosk, a ticket is spit out that tells you when you can get your next one. It wasn't difficult and was about as "equal opportunity" as could be.
Compare that to this system, where folks are sitting on a website every day waiting for things to seemingly randomly show up to reserve days/weeks/months in advance, plan every day of their vacation ahead of time, down to where they will be at a certain hour on a certain day, have a complex system of accounts and ticket registrations, and has to carry around a smart phone to be able to effectively manage them.
I know which system I think sounds like it caters to "superusers" - when anyone could be a "superuser" of the previous system simply by glancing at the ticket that spits out and knowing when you can get your next one.
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
This is likely the root cause. Now that FP+ has been live for some time and more and more people have access to it (Cast Members now have a 60 day window to book as well as long as they're staying on property which adds an additional 66k+ people to the FastPass+ pre-booking mix that were not a part of it prior to two days ago) there is more of a push to get FastPass early. People who weren't familiar with what attractions they needed it for before are now wiser and booking them further and further out. This leaves very little inventory for day-of guests or last-minute changes.
7DMT seems to be the outlier here. Most high-capacity headliners are still available, no matter how limited, until day of with the exceptions of usually Soarin' and TSMM. 7DMT, being a coaster, SHOULD theoretically have a high hourly capacity and therefore a higher FP+ inventory. The fact that it is gone 60 days out points to the fact that it is simply on everyone's to-do list and it is a must have. Anna and Elsa are a different story, I'm sure there's high demand but the inventory is quite low due to it being a Meet & Greet.