FoxNews website article on NextGen

[MichWolv]

Quoted for truth...this is the same flaccid argument made by fast passers....the capacity of the ride is a constant, always has been, always will be. No stupid 1.2 billion dollar project is going to make lines faster unless they spend that money on adding capacity to the ride vehicles...

.

None of this stuff will (or could) increase capacity on the attractions. But that ain't the goal, and anybody who reads Disney's stuff to say that the goal is to increase capacity is a...person who has made a mistake.

Of course, we all know that part of the goal is to get us to spend more. But another part of the goal, it seems to me, is to better utilize capacity. To wit, the first show of Flights of Wonder often has many available seats, as does the first show of the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular, even on days when the later shows are full and people are turned away. If you can convince people to rearrange their day to see the first show, you get more people in without performing the show any more often. Same thing with the Great Movie Ride early in the AM -- often cars are open, because everybody is running for TSMM. But if they already have their TSMM reservation, maybe the go to GMR first thing, utilizing capacity that would otherwise go unutilized. So it's not about increasing capacity, but using the capacity that exists. There are plenty of examples of this possibility around the parks.

Further, if you take a ride that runs at peak capacity all day -- let's say, Space Mountain -- and somehow get it so that the average time people wait in line for the ride drops by 20% (say 8-10 minutes), you've given all those people that much time to go do something else. So the goal isn't to get more people on the attraction, but to get the same number of people through the attraction with less average waiting in line. Theoretically, you could choose some attractions and drop the average wait to close to zero by not allowing stand-by at all -- you either use xpass or Fastpass, and nobody ever waits more than a couple minutes. I'm sure that isn't the plan, but decreasing average wait times is most certainly a goal.

 

[Brava Centauri]

I've had APs for the other Orlando theme parks, and I've paid extra to include parking so as to avoid that annoying expense. I bring in my own drinks and snacks, so there goes another chance to make money off of me. Because I'm local, I can justify only going for half a day or less, so the necessity to purchase more than one meal in the parks doesn't apply to me. And I very seldom eat at a table service restaurant and tend to buy whatever is cheapest on the counter service menu. Universal's preferred AP also includes food and souvenir discounts at almost all locations, so I saved there, too.

I don't think Disney makes a lot off their local AP holders due to the budget-saving habits locals like myself use, but it's a niche they apparently have seen they lack--hence why they started the FL resident monthly payment program since they do charge the most for their APs. I have family coming into town this weekend, and they want to spend a few days with us at Disney. Normally we rely on CM friends to help us out, but we currently don't have any available this time. If XPASS was in place these days, we would probably feel compelled to make a decision now as to what park on what day we plan to visit so any must-do rides can be "reserved" if we knew ahead of time that XPASS has made it almost necessary to do so in order to avoid ridiculous wait times. But what if the service was only for resort guests? We're already considering doing the 3 day $99 pass; I doubt a single day ticket would include the service if they made it available to anyone who purchases a minimum # of days. And what about APs? There are already 4 or 5 different kinds ... no doubt it would only be a perk for the more expensive options.

Whatever it ends up being, I just hope that it's an option that doesn't become a necessity in order to enjoy the parks without planning weeks in advance. Or paying more than normal admission. There was a time when stuff like this wasn't necessary to have a great day that's worth your ticket price. But more guests + too few expansions = epic crowds.

 

[Mawg]

Quoted for truth...this is the same flaccid argument made by fast passers....the capacity of the ride is a constant, always has been, always will be. No stupid 1.2 billion dollar project is going to make lines faster unless they spend that money on adding capacity to the ride vehicles...

Exactly...The capacity of the ride is not changing. Why even offer this? The line will just be faster for a few and slower for the rest. There has to be a good reason to spend this amount of money. They must think that the people using X-passes should not be waiting in lines and that they are some how better than the people not using X-passes (Maybe they spend more money). In the end, I think it will backfire on them though.

 

[MichWolv]

Exactly...The capacity of the ride is not changing. Why even offer this? The line will just be faster for a few and slower for the rest. There has to be a good reason to spend this amount of money. They must think that the people using X-passes should not be waiting in lines and that they are some how better than the people not using X-passes (Maybe they spend more money). In the end, I think it will backfire on them though.

As I said, it is most certainly possible, theoretically, to decrease the average wait time. It SHOULD be achievable in practice, as well. Whether it is achieved remains to be seen.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Of course, we all know that part of the goal is to get us to spend more. But another part of the goal, it seems to me, is to better utilize capacity. To wit, the first show of Flights of Wonder often has many available seats, as does the first show of the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular, even on days when the later shows are full and people are turned away. If you can convince people to rearrange their day to see the first show, you get more people in without performing the show any more often. Same thing with the Great Movie Ride early in the AM -- often cars are open, because everybody is running for TSMM. But if they already have their TSMM reservation, maybe the go to GMR first thing, utilizing capacity that would otherwise go unutilized. So it's not about increasing capacity, but using the capacity that exists. There are plenty of examples of this possibility around the parks.

This is actually the first idea I've read that has potential merit, in my mind.

But even then, I think this would be the exception rather than the rule. I would bet that some of these attractions/shows will ALWAYS draw less people at certain times. People aren't going to get to the parks 2 hours earlier than they usually do so they can see the Indy stunt show without a wait.

The vast majority of attractions and shows are going to remain busiest during the busiest hours of the day.

 

[Bolna]

But even then, I think this would be the exception rather than the rule. I would bet that some of these attractions/shows will ALWAYS draw less people at certain times. People aren't going to get to the parks 2 hours earlier than they usually do so they can see the Indy stunt show without a wait.

The vast majority of attractions and shows are going to remain busiest during the busiest hours of the day.

I am afraid that a lot of people will use X-Pass to achieve multiple rides on their favourites. So they will get at Space Mountain X-Pass before and still go their first thing in the morning. Many people use FP just the same way: Get a FP for later and still get into the standby line now (as long as it relatively short in the morning).

 

[Mawg]

Here's an example of how X-pass may help some but not others. At the Studios at rope drop, where does everyone in the park head first? They head to Toy Story to get in line for their fast pass. They then slowly start to spread out around the park but for a good hour or two that area of the park is the most condensed. If people already had their fast passes before they even entered the park, they would start somewhere else first. This seems great. But for those not using X-pass they still need to go get a fast pass of which there will be fewer thus they might have to get in the stand by line. However, since attractions that normally no one would be at this early in the morning now have people experiencing them earlier, the rest of the day may go smoother. Still if you are not an X-pass user and want to experience an attraction like Toy Story you might be in for a longer wait.

I hope this doesn't work out because I could see in the next 10 years they could take it further and upon entrance you would be given one of 8 routes thru the park with specific times to experience every attraction, thus ultimately spreading the crowds out evenly throughout the whole park all day long. No Magic in that.

 

[G00fyDad]

I hope this doesn't work out because I could see in the next 10 years they could take it further and upon entrance you would be given one of 8 routes thru the park with specific times to experience every attraction, thus ultimately spreading the crowds out evenly throughout the whole park all day long. No Magic in that.

I couldn't.

 

[MichWolv]

This is actually the first idea I've read that has potential merit, in my mind.

But even then, I think this would be the exception rather than the rule. I would bet that some of these attractions/shows will ALWAYS draw less people at certain times. People aren't going to get to the parks 2 hours earlier than they usually do so they can see the Indy stunt show without a wait.

The vast majority of attractions and shows are going to remain busiest during the busiest hours of the day.

True indeed, but you don't need to make everything completely even to get benefits. I think I read a while ago that the average guest experiences 9 attractions in a day. If that can be raised to 10, or even 9.5, by spreading out the lines, or otherwise decreasing the average wait, or if the time it takes to experience those 9 attractions can be lowered from an average of 9 hours to 8.5, that'll be a huge win for all those guests.

Certainly, this is all playing at the margins, but when you are playing at the margins with that big of a population, it's easy to see huge returns by moving the meter just a little bit. If NextGen saves 30 minutes each for, let's say, 20,000 people per day (MK attendance, I think?), thats 10,000 hours per day saved or 3.65 million hours per year. Or look at it in terms of increased attractions. If those 20,000 people a day see, on average, .5 more attractions, that's an extra 3.65 million attractions per year. Play that out over 4 parks, over multiple years, and the returns on that $1.2 billion investment are pretty good.

Even before the returns that come from getting us to spend more money.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

True indeed, but you don't need to make everything completely even to get benefits. I think I read a while ago that the average guest experiences 9 attractions in a day. If that can be raised to 10, or even 9.5, by spreading out the lines, or otherwise decreasing the average wait, or if the time it takes to experience those 9 attractions can be lowered from an average of 9 hours to 8.5, that'll be a huge win for all those guests.

Certainly, this is all playing at the margins, but when you are playing at the margins with that big of a population, it's easy to see huge returns by moving the meter just a little bit. If NextGen saves 30 minutes each for, let's say, 20,000 people per day (MK attendance, I think?), thats 10,000 hours per day saved or 3.65 million hours per year. Or look at it in terms of increased attractions. If those 20,000 people a day see, on average, .5 more attractions, that's an extra 3.65 million attractions per year. Play that out over 4 parks, over multiple years, and the returns on that $1.2 billion investment are pretty good.

Even before the returns that come from getting us to spend more money.

But what if the increased attractions come at the cost of those that didn't plan their day down to a "T"?

That's the biggest problem I have with all this. It certainly seems that if you don't "keep up with the Joneses" you're going to pay.

It seems very logical that the repercussions of this program would parallel how the Dining Plan effected sit-down restaurant availability. The dining plan has DECIMATED the ability to walk up to your restaurant of choice and get a table. If you don't plan ahead, sometimes MONTHS in advance, you won't eat at Le Cellier. Or Cindy's. Etc...

To me, it makes complete sense that the suits looked at that program, and thought "Our restaurants are constantly completely booked now... How can we apply the same process to the attractions??" and this is what they've come up with.

I believe the same people that think the DDP is the greatest thing are the people that will LOVE XPass and all of its chain reaction effects... While those that HATE the DDP are going to hate XPass.

 

[MichWolv]

But what if the increased attractions come at the cost of those that didn't plan their day down to a "T"?

That's the biggest problem I have with all this. It certainly seems that if you don't "keep up with the Joneses" you're going to pay.

It seems very logical that the repercussions of this program would parallel how the Dining Plan effected sit-down restaurant availability. The dining plan has DECIMATED the ability to walk up to your restaurant of choice and get a table. If you don't plan ahead, sometimes MONTHS in advance, you won't eat at Le Cellier. Or Cindy's. Etc...

To me, it makes complete sense that the suits looked at that program, and thought "Our restaurants are constantly completely booked now... How can we apply the same process to the attractions??" and this is what they've come up with.

I believe the same people that think the DDP is the greatest thing are the people that will LOVE XPass and all of its chain reaction effects... While those that HATE the DDP are going to hate XPass.

Correct. The benefits will not be spread evenly. But if a result of NextGen is better utilization of capacity, such that, hypothetically, attraction capacity is 90% utilized overall, vs. 85% (and yes, I'm making the numbers up), that would mean an increase, on average, in the number of attractions per person (assuming no increase in the number of park guests per day), of apporximately 6%, equivalent to going from 9 to 9.5 attractions, on average, per day.

It is true that what really will happen is some people will max the system and gain 2 or 3 attractions, while others will not utilize it and will lose some. But if the average utilization of capacity goes up, so does the average number of attractions experienced per person -- that's just math. And if that can be done in a way that still allows people, on average, to experience their favorites (and why not? The same number of people will see the top attractions as do today, because they'll continue running at full capacity), it's a net gain overall.

I'm not saying that this will work, but the numbers show it is possible. Implementation, as always, will be the key.

 

[Wesleyjohn]

I couldn't agree with you more! Why is it so hard for the current management to see this. It makes perfect sense to me and is the reason there is even a company for them to run today. Please oh please get some people in there to run things that actually understand this philosophy before it is too late!

Quite simple really! Because that's what college professors taught them! Lol

 

[Wesleyjohn]

I couldn't agree with you more! Why is it so hard for the current management to see this. It makes perfect sense to me and is the reason there is even a company for them to run today. Please oh please get some people in there to run things that actually understand this philosophy before it is too late!

Quite simple really! Because that's what college professors taught them! Lol

 

[acishere]

So Disney wants to track us in the future with three genetically altered telepathic people to prevent any future crimes? :hammer:

Have you even seen Minority Report? :shrug:

I meant the fact that everywhere you go in that movie they have the eye scanners that track your consumer history and tailor ads for you. When Tom Cruise walks in a store he gets scanned and the hologram immediately starts interacting with him about his previous purchases and starts making suggestions on what to buy next.

 

[G00fyDad]

I meant the fact that everywhere you go in that movie they have the eye scanners that track your consumer history and tailor ads for you. When Tom Cruise walks in a store he gets scanned and the hologram immediately starts interacting with him about his previous purchases and starts making suggestions on what to buy next.

Ahhh. I don't think we're there yet.

 

[acishere]

Ahhh. I don't think we're there yet.

Yeah, but that is part of what the wristband is supposed to be. Yeah its not scanning your eyeball, but it has the same outcome. You are being integrated into an experience so they can better understand you get you to buy stuff. And you can bet if they want to use it to have rides acknowledge you, they are going to have stores and food places do the same thing. That is what I was referencing.

 

[MickeyPeace]

And of course we all know that the single male with no kids will never become a married man with two kids so we better not build the good customer service base when he doesn't count for anything...

Also the single male (with perhaps a larger disposable income) may make three to four trips a year while the family of four will make one every few years.

If Disney starts favoring and dividing guests it will not be a good thing.

 

[G00fyDad]

Yeah, but that is part of what the wristband is supposed to be. Yeah its not scanning your eyeball, but it has the same outcome. You are being integrated into an experience so they can better understand you get you to buy stuff. And you can bet if they want to use it to have rides acknowledge you, they are going to have stores and food places do the same thing. That is what I was referencing.

Fine. I understand your position but it's Disney and not the CIA. I'm just not ready to put on a foil hat yet.

 

[flavious27]

They are.

Well FLE is coming but not much is said about MK and DHS beyond that.

Then don't. There is such an "either/or" attitude with this xPass system. This is going to be another perk for booking packages. Not a required action. Nor should it ever cause any more irritation with guests that do not use it than the current FP system. The consensus seems to be that xPass is "something I have to do", "something that will consume every moment of my day", or "something that will cause the lines to be unbearable". That is not what it is about. There are plenty of people like me that are excited about this idea. I can book my TS 180 days out right now and I love that because I do know what parks I'd like to visit on each day. (and yes, I can change it later, even that same day and still get a seat) And now I will be able to book rides 180 days out. I can book all of my attractions that usually fill up fast for the first thing in the mornings and get them out of the way. Then I can just relax for the rest of the day and if I get to ride them again then great, if not then at least I had an xPass for that morning.

If they are only going to be a few spots open for this, like at the end of the day then it won't have as much of an effect. If this is what will replace fp and be really the only way to get a seat for the first 7 hours in a day, you are going to be forced into it.

If they are really concerned about filling up queues that are light, then the ideal method would to send FP to guests using txts. This method of on time reservation is what companies that manufacturer and warehouse use to save money.

So you have no problem with them not knowing if it is you using your KttW card but you have a problem with them not knowing if it is you using your RFID bracelet? :shrug: And if you have this kind of problem then send Disney a suggestion to give you the option to have the cash registers tell the the cashiers ask for ID when you buy something. Or better yet, if you feel that strongly about the security issues then just don't get charging privileges on the bracelet or KttW card.

We really don't hear guests having their kttw cards copied. RFID can be hacked. Yeah your CC info is not on the card but without limits and verification, someone could get your band number without your knowledge and then use it at DTD to charge up a few hundred or more. Or if they make this your room key, someone could break into your room. It really isn't that hard for someone to find out what room you are in or act dumb when using a a fake band to get a room number from the front counter clerks.

Also bands used by other amusement parks are cheap, disney should be associated with that. What they could do is have something that says disney and is partly hidden on guests.

They could put a rfid chip in one of these and have them used for nextgen.

 

[G00fyDad]

If they are only going to be a few spots open for this, like at the end of the day then it won't have as much of an effect. If this is what will replace fp and be really the only way to get a seat for the first 7 hours in a day, you are going to be forced into it.

Never said it would be just a few spots at the end of the day. Where did you get that idea? :shrug: Doing that would just be plain stupid and not worth the effort Disney is putting into this. They're likely to be spread out throught the day.

If they are really concerned about filling up queues that are light, then the ideal method would to send FP to guests using txts. This method of on time reservation is what companies that manufacturer and warehouse use to save money.

And those without a free text messaging plan or even a cell phone would do what exactly?

We really don't hear guests having their kttw cards copied. RFID can be hacked. Yeah your CC info is not on the card but without limits and verification, someone could get your band number without your knowledge and then use it at DTD to charge up a few hundred or more. Or if they make this your room key, someone could break into your room. It really isn't that hard for someone to find out what room you are in or act dumb when using a a fake band to get a room number from the front counter clerks.

Sorry but I dismiss this outright. This is the lamest g*****n excuse I hear about this technology. LOL :ROFLOL: Lets examine what it would take for someone to "steal your soul" with this tech shall we?

1 - They would have to stand virtually up against you while touching your wristband to a device to read it. If you cannot tell that some grown man or woman is grabbing your arm or at least touching it with a scanner then seek medical attention, quick. I can maybe, just maybe, see it happening during Christmas week when people are stacked into the parks like sardines. Which moves us to #2.

2 - That cat-like ninja that just crept up and stole your RFID information only got a alphanumeric ID. That's it. Nothing more. So, unless they have hired superhackers and have access to Disney's database, they aren't going to know you by anything other than... `18122585saf2d684d2h3h9.

3 - And if someone can walk up to you at your resort, scan your bracelet having never alerted you, then follow you to your room, then somehow open your door with the alphanumeric number, then the hell with it, I'm moving out of the country and to a small island in the pacific. This just gets too dangerous for me. :wave:

Also bands used by other amusement parks are cheap, disney should be associated with that. What they could do is have something that says disney and is partly hidden on guests.

Cheap? Disney should not associate with them? I take it you have not seen these? I'd rather have one of these than a Mickey tag. Thanks.