FoxNews website article on NextGen

[G00fyDad]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Now I will know that I will definitely be able to ride some of the top attractions with out having to kill myself to get there in morning to do so. Do you have any idea if you are only able to schedule an attraction for once a day or can you do it multiple times in a day?

No one knows yet. Disney is keeping tight lipped about it at this point (or maybe they don't fully know themselves) and as of right now the details are sketchy at best. But they have to implement this system with as little interruption in normal day to day operations as possible. For instance the current FP system gives out something like 10 FP for say 9:00am to 10:00am. Then, once those are gone, another 10 for 9:01am to 10:01am and so on throughout the days operating hours. That equals 7200 to 8400 FP a day per attraction. The new system cannot interfere with this too much, but simply adding more FP to the system would mean an even longer wait in standby lines. They will have to come up with a better solution to the problem first.

 

[Tom]

No one knows yet. Disney is keeping tight lipped about it at this point (or maybe they don't fully know themselves) and as of right now the details are sketchy at best. But they have to implement this system with as little interruption in normal day to day operations as possible. For instance the current FP system gives out something like 10 FP for say 9:00am to 10:00am. Then, once those are gone, another 10 for 9:01am to 10:01am and so on throughout the days operating hours. That equals 7200 to 8400 FP a day per attraction. The new system cannot interfere with this too much, but simply adding more FP to the system would mean an even longer wait in standby lines. They will have to come up with a better solution to the problem first.

Correct - they need to do this VERY carefully, or they're only going to hurt lines, not help. I imagine that for every pre-made reservation they give out, they'll deduct 1 from that time block's on-site Fastpass allotment, with a low threshold so that on-site Fastpasses are still somewhat available.

BTW, I believe the FP clock ticks up in 5-min increments. So, 9:00-10:00, 9:05-10:05, and so on.

 

[acishere]

I don't really like the idea of Xpass. I don't know what I'm going to be in the mood for months in advance of my vacation. I don't know if I'm going to have too much to drink one night so I better not reserve an early time for Tower of Terror the next morning. I like being able to have a general game plan that can be changed as I go along and I'm worried that with Xpass I will be punished for that choice with longer wait times. Having every. single. thing. in your vacation being set months in advance just turn the experience into just a by the numbers experience. Reserving a few set times for something extremely extraordinary is one thing, but every vacation needs wiggle room to do what you want. That is the point of vacation, to take time off and not have to hear my Blackberry making the appointment reminder ding every hour throughout the day.

Bingo!
That is the entire reason the NextGen project exists, to track your spending and figure out how to make you do more of it. They aren't investing a billion dollars just to make the queues more interesting, or have an AA say your name.

They want your spending data. With it they can tailor ads and such to your tastes, use your favorite characters to sell you things, etc. They will also be assigning a "value" to guests based on your worth to the company. A single male with no kids will have a much lower value than a family of four, which will have an effect on how each are treated.

I'm not a fan.

So essentially the NextGen project is "How we can be more like movie Minority Report." Then again that is what every company is striving for.

Using this to treat certain guests more poorly than others however is a terrible business model. I mean that single male has much more disposable income than the large family. He has more room to make selfish purchases, why treat him less favorably? In a vacation destination, there are so many ways to profit off of so many different types of people, that using this system to only focus on certain values would be a waste of money.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Correct - they need to do this VERY carefully, or they're only going to hurt lines, not help. I imagine that for every pre-made reservation they give out, they'll deduct 1 from that time block's on-site Fastpass allotment, with a low threshold so that on-site Fastpasses are still somewhat available.

BTW, I believe the FP clock ticks up in 5-min increments. So, 9:00-10:00, 9:05-10:05, and so on.

This is my expectation as well. I think looking at a park like the Animal Kingdom is the best way to explain how this might work.

On an average day guests are allocated 3 xPasses. The xPass available "attractions are as follows"

Group A: Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, Dinosaur, Kali River Rapids
Group B: Primeval Whirl, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo the Musical, Flights of Wonder, Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade premium viewing

Guests are able to acquire 1 xPass in each group, as well as 1 additional xPass in either Group A or B.

The overall Fastpass/xPass distribution per attraction won't change, but the number of xPasses available per window will be less than the total amount of Fastpasses previously available per window. This would allow every window to be available for day guests.

This is all speculation, but it does seem that something similar to this is likely.

 

[Oddysey]

In my everyday life I am a stringent planner. I plan just about everthing you can think of in an effort to be more efficient. As a local AP holder, when I go to Disney, I attempt to channel my alter ego "the non-planner". This allows me to relax, forces my blood pressure to go down, and allows me to escape from the every day hustle and bustle.

It would only be fair to pass judgement on xpass after it is executed because speculation is, well, just speculation. However, I am fearful of the affects this may have on my attempts to relax and enjoy the attractions at my leisure. When NextGen officially rolls out, if I dont like how it alters the Disney experience, I will simply take my money elsewhere. If me and my family can still enjoy the parks at our preffered pace, and still expect a reasonable wait time at most stand by lines, I will continue to give my money to Disney every year. For me its that simple.

 

[Mawg]

We typically go to WDW in October. However, next summer we are planning a family reunion there. Since we have teachers and students in the family we have to go at the peak time in Late June early July. There is nothing I can do about the crowds, but if Disney gives me tools to keep my wait times down for our favorite attractions, I’m going to take full advantage and use them. Between using Magic Hours, X-pass, Fast Pass, Rider Swaps and Single Rider lines having dinning reservations at peak crowd times I’m hoping we can hit everything we want by being educated on these offerings and some advanced planning.

It seems X-pass hurts the AP holder the most as they just show up when they want to without much pre-planning and will experience longer waits. Disney also knows that they don’t make as much money on the AP holders as they do the families staying in the resorts for a week long family vacation. They probably don’t feel bad about screwing them over.

 

[Bolna]

This is my expectation as well. I think looking at a park like the Animal Kingdom is the best way to explain how this might work.

On an average day guests are allocated 3 xPasses. The xPass available "attractions are as follows"

Group A: Kilimanjaro Safaris, Expedition Everest, Dinosaur, Kali River Rapids
Group B: Primeval Whirl, Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo the Musical, Flights of Wonder, Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade premium viewing

Guests are able to acquire 1 xPass in each group, as well as 1 additional xPass in either Group A or B.

The overall Fastpass/xPass distribution per attraction won't change, but the number of xPasses available per window will be less than the total amount of Fastpasses previously available per window. This would allow every window to be available for day guests.

This is all speculation, but it does seem that something similar to this is likely.

This is actually a good example of how X-Pass will affect visitors in a negative way.

If you take your group A there is only one attraction in it which is not a thrill ride. So any family that has smaller kids or anyone else who does not want to go on a thrill ride will certainly go for the KS X-Pass as this is the only ride in that category they can do as a group. I am certain that you will see the KS-X-Pass for any given day to be the first one which has all available slots booked well in advance.

So people who are too late to get their KS X-Pass might settle on one of the other rides in that category, but certainly will try to get a FP as soon as possible. If the X-Passes are taken out of the allotment of FPs available now you will see FP disappearing at a much quicker pace than they are now as the timeframe would be pushed forward after a smaller amount of FPs having been distributed than at the moment.

So it will be much harder to get a KS FP now. A lot of people will only be left with the normal standby line then.

I think the problem with X-Pass is that it will make a lot of people take a spot in what is now the virtual FP line which they might not have taken before. Because when you decide whether to get a FP or not you can look at the current wait time in standby and decide it is not worth to get a FP - because the standby line is not so long, because your FP return time does not work for you, because you don't want to walk back to the attraction at a later point in time etc...

 

[RSoxNo1]

This is actually a good example of how X-Pass will affect visitors in a negative way.

If you take your group A there is only one attraction in it which is not a thrill ride. So any family that has smaller kids or anyone else who does not want to go on a thrill ride will certainly go for the KS X-Pass as this is the only ride in that category they can do as a group. I am certain that you will see the KS-X-Pass for any given day to be the first one which has all available slots booked well in advance.

So people who are too late to get their KS X-Pass might settle on one of the other rides in that category, but certainly will try to get a FP as soon as possible. If the X-Passes are taken out of the allotment of FPs available now you will see FP disappearing at a much quicker pace than they are now as the timeframe would be pushed forward after a smaller amount of FPs having been distributed than at the moment.

So it will be much harder to get a KS FP now. A lot of people will only be left with the normal standby line then.

I think the problem with X-Pass is that it will make a lot of people take a spot in what is now the virtual FP line which they might not have taken before. Because when you decide whether to get a FP or not you can look at the current wait time in standby and decide it is not worth to get a FP - because the standby line is not so long, because your FP return time does not work for you, because you don't want to walk back to the attraction at a later point in time etc...

I'm not so sure that an attraction like KS will now become a Soarin' type problem, especially considering how high the capacity is for KS, and the high percentage of guests that want to experience the ride.

Having said that, your overall point is well taken. When they did similar pairings for Give a Day, Get a Day, the scale was much smaller, and from a statistical standpoint, the fastpass distribution was probably deemed insignificant. With xPass they won't have this luxury so they may have to play around with groupings so that they don't line up the way that I described. At the Magic Kingdom where the attraction lineup is deeper it won't be that big of a problem, but at the other three parks this could be a problem.

Another potential "rule" that can be built into the system is a restriction on the number of times you can acquire an xPass or Fastpass for a particular attraction.

 

[Bolna]

I'm not so sure that an attraction like KS will now become a Soarin' type problem, especially considering how high the capacity is for KS, and the high percentage of guests that want to experience the ride.

Having said that, your overall point is well taken. When they did similar pairings for Give a Day, Get a Day, the scale was much smaller, and from a statistical standpoint, the fastpass distribution was probably deemed insignificant. With xPass they won't have this luxury so they may have to play around with groupings so that they don't line up the way that I described. At the Magic Kingdom where the attraction lineup is deeper it won't be that big of a problem, but at the other three parks this could be a problem.

Another potential "rule" that can be built into the system is a restriction on the number of times you can acquire an xPass or Fastpass for a particular attraction.

I don't think either KS will become the next Soarin or TSM with regard to wait times and FP availability. But I do think that X-Pass will put a lot of stress on the system.

With that regard it might be interesting that DLP just announced a new perk for the celebration of the 20th anniversary for the members of the Shareholders Club (if you own shares in Euro Disney S.C.A. you can become a member - for a fee or if you own 10 shares or more for free). You can register for a weekday in May or June for a free VIP FP which is valid for a party of up to 4 people for unlimited rides through all DLP FP attractions. This is limited to 25 VIP FPs per day, so 100 people.

Since it is a more or less free perk for Disney to give a way (but great to have for visitors), I think this 25 passes limit is quite telling. I am sure they chose a limit that they were sure would not effect the other guests too much. So this is a potential 100 people (as every pass is valid for a party of 4) with unlimited access for 9 FP attractions (6 at DLP, 3 at WDS). And only on weekdays, not on the much busier weekends.

 

[durhay]

WHEN I heard the learn’d astronomer;
When the proofs, the figures, were ranged in columns before me;
When I was shown the charts and the diagrams, to add, divide, and measure them;
When I, sitting, heard the astronomer, where he lectured with much applause in the lecture-room,
How soon, unaccountable, I became tired and sick;
Till rising and gliding out, I wander’d off by myself,
In the mystical moist night-air, and from time to time,
Look’d up in perfect silence at the stars.

-Walt Whitman

 

[fosse76]

It seems X-pass hurts the AP holder the most as they just show up when they want to without much pre-planning and will experience longer waits. Disney also knows that they don’t make as much money on the AP holders as they do the families staying in the resorts for a week long family vacation. They probably don’t feel bad about screwing them over.

They make more money on Passholders than they do on the average guest. They visit the parks more than the average guest, thereby substantially increasing their in-park spending. Park admission is negligible. The real money comes from food and merchandise.

 

[Mawg]

They make more money on Passholders than they do on the average guest. They visit the parks more than the average guest, thereby substantially increasing their in-park spending. Park admission is negligible. The real money comes from food and merchandise.

That may be true but I can only speak from my own experiences and don't have any real stats. The only way I would buy an AP is if I lived close enough I could drive (local to Orlando) and not have to spend the night thus no resort. If I did live that close I would try to save money by eating breakfast on the way or off site, bringing in a sack lunch and eating at home afterwards. If I lived in Orlando I don't know how much I would spend on merchandise either, Disney stuff is everywhere. I'm sure I'm not the only cheapskate that would be like this. However, on a family vacation I save for a year and splurge, it's special.

 

[MichWolv]

That may be true but I can only speak from my own experiences and don't have any real stats. The only way I would buy an AP is if I lived close enough I could drive (local to Orlando) and not have to spend the night thus no resort. If I did live that close I would try to save money by eating breakfast on the way or off site, bringing in a sack lunch and eating at home afterwards. If I lived in Orlando I don't know how much I would spend on merchandise either, Disney stuff is everywhere. I'm sure I'm not the only cheapskate that would be like this. However, on a family vacation I save for a year and splurge, it's special.

Two trips in the same 12 month period generally makes APs worthwhile. We live in the Chicago area and typically use APs, whether we stay on property or not.

 

[G00fyDad]

So essentially the NextGen project is "How we can be more like movie Minority Report." Then again that is what every company is striving for.

So Disney wants to track us in the future with three genetically altered telepathic people to prevent any future crimes? :hammer:

Have you even seen Minority Report? :shrug:

 

[Mawg]

Two trips in the same 12 month period generally makes APs worthwhile. We live in the Chicago area and typically use APs, whether we stay on property or not.

Then you're not really the local AP holder that Disney is screwing over. You're still going to plan your vacation far enough out that X-passes may benefit you. It's the local who just drops in for the day and does not spend much money that X-passes will hurt the most.

 

[TP2000]

Al Lutz has a Disneyland columnn out today, but it has a nugget of WDW NextGen news in it.

According to Lutz, NextGen and xPass (which is a working title only) "soft open" this October at WDW and are formally launched at WDW in January, 2013.

 

[G00fyDad]

Then you're not really the local AP holder that Disney is screwing over. You're still going to plan your vacation far enough out that X-passes may benefit you. It's the local who just drops in for the day and does not spend much money that X-passes will hurt the most.

More of that "either/or" crap. How do you know? Where did you get this information that it will "screw over" the local AP holder? Where? That's just it. You don't know. Just more of that gloom and doom talk from those that have the same information as everyone else on this, very little. :brick:

 

[RSoxNo1]

I wonder if something being considered is that if a guest chooses to use xPass, they won't be able to use Fastpass or the time frame (2 hours between Fastpasses) will be eliminated in favor of a max # of Fastpasses/xPasses per day.

 

[G00fyDad]

I wonder if something being considered is that if a guest chooses to use xPass, they won't be able to use Fastpass or the time frame (2 hours between Fastpasses) will be eliminated in favor of a max # of Fastpasses/xPasses per day.

I've seen that idea expressed many times before. It may very well happen too. But I'd simply like to see Disney set aside a block of additional xPasses, slightly reduce the number of FPs, and extend the operating hours by 1 hour each night or morning (aside from emh). That would alleviate the strain on not only the current FP system but also the standby lines too. But that is just my opinion. :wave:

 

[PirateFrank]

When I think about the logistics of planning out the rides and getting right on at your scheduled time.. it kind of makes me a little sick. How is it going to be possible to make lines shorter when the same number of people are riding during the day?.

Quoted for truth...this is the same flaccid argument made by fast passers....the capacity of the ride is a constant, always has been, always will be. No stupid 1.2 billion dollar project is going to make lines faster unless they spend that money on adding capacity to the ride vehicles...