Four Parks: One Stale World?

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
True. I did not mean to suggest that I believe that the DDP is to blame, it is just something you often hear. I really do not know either way.

The DDP is to blame for the Walmarting of Disney Dining ... now, if you want to blame the execs who enacted the program, we could do that.

But there's very little way to defend the dumbing down, while increasing costs, that have happened since the DDP came to be.

When a WDW Dining lover such as myself is eating off property at places like Sizzler and Pizza Hut and Chick Fil A, I am example No. 1 for what DDP has done.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
And the current DDP is in no way like the many plans offered prior to 2004.

Totally different animals.
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
The DDP is to blame for the Walmarting of Disney Dining ... now, if you want to blame the execs who enacted the program, we could do that.

But there's very little way to defend the dumbing down, while increasing costs, that have happened since the DDP came to be.

When a WDW Dining lover such as myself is eating off property at places like Sizzler and Pizza Hut and Chick Fil A, I am example No. 1 for what DDP has done.
I was simply saying that I have no proof of it either way. I generally do not make absolute statements without proof. It is illogical.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I was simply saying that I have no proof of it either way. I generally do not make absolute statements without proof. It is illogical.

I guess I am not a Vulcan. I do.

When I know enough about how TWDC operates and can connect dots, I'm willing to do so.

Dining has become a disaster since the DDP.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
I know nothing about mushrooms as I'm allergic, but substituting black pepper for saffron is a huge difference. Saffrron prices range from $500-$5000 per pound depending on the grade. Black peppercorns range from $10-maybe $50 a pound although I couldn't find any higher than $30 a pound. Black pepper is at least 100 times cheaper than saffron.

My son was getting cranky and it wasn't worth it. I just nibbled my way back around the world showcase that night.

I'm not trying to start a fight, just stating some facts and observations. Sorry if I offended anyone.


Lol, no offense or fight here :)

I know pepper is a LOT cheaper than saffron, per pound, but then you use a lot less saffron then pepper by weight.

Anyway, my point was saffron is NOTHING like pepper. It looks, smells, and tastes totaly different. That's why I was saying I don't think the substitution was done for economic reasons. I wonder if they changed up the dish because of other people's comments, thats all.

-dave
 

mcjaco

Well-Known Member
I guess I am not a Vulcan. I do.

When I know enough about how TWDC operates and can connect dots, I'm willing to do so.

Dining has become a disaster since the DDP.

The DDP has really ruined the dining experience. Which of course ties into the DVC.....grrrrrrr.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I wonder if anyone here actually remembers when ONLY APers and locals could make reservations and they were only day of. And then when they allowed you 48 hrs.

Or if anyone here remembers what it was like to dine at a Disney restaurant and be handed a real menu ... one with pages of selections.

Or when you'd get soup or salad included with dinner entrees and they were less than half the price of what they are now.

Or when lunch actually was priced less, even if the portion/item was the same as from the dinner menu.

Or when character meals were almost non-existent.

I could go on and on here ... and everything I just wrote disappeared before the DDP (well, except for the real menus ... thay still had them at Nine Dragons and Alfredo's a few years back) ... but the DDP (the ultimate WalMarting of Disney Dining via a cruise line like program) has totally put the proverbial fork in the enjoyment of dining on property.
 

scottnj1966

Well-Known Member
Your absolutely right Marni.

I sure wish someone with some real insight would take over the WDW resort.
They have lost touch with what is needed and what disney was about.

So sad.
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
I wonder if anyone here actually remembers when ONLY APers and locals could make reservations and they were only day of. And then when they allowed you 48 hrs.

Or if anyone here remembers what it was like to dine at a Disney restaurant and be handed a real menu ... one with pages of selections.

Or when you'd get soup or salad included with dinner entrees and they were less than half the price of what they are now.

Or when lunch actually was priced less, even if the portion/item was the same as from the dinner menu.

Or when character meals were almost non-existent.

I could go on and on here ... and everything I just wrote disappeared before the DDP (well, except for the real menus ... thay still had them at Nine Dragons and Alfredo's a few years back) ... but the DDP (the ultimate WalMarting of Disney Dining via a cruise line like program) has totally put the proverbial fork in the enjoyment of dining on property.
1. I really do not remember this. I remember same day, but not restricted. When Epcot opened I remember making same day ressies at world key kiosks for WS and we did not have AP's. Perhaps you are talking about a different time.

2. Well, you sort of answered that one already. I would agree that some menus have been streamlined.

3. You are kind of contradicting your "walmarting" statement here. Cheaper restaurants offer soup/salad with your entree. A la Carte is offered more and more now, not just Disney. However, the level of salads everywhere has gone up because of it. Salads offered with meals are generally generic. Iceburg lettuce, one slice of tomato, one slice of cucumber, and some cheap dressing. I would rather pay seven or eight bucks and get a proper salad.

I also remember when milk was a dollar. Prices do raise.

4. A filet at Le Cellier is $25.99 for lunch. It is $34.99 for dinner. The portion might be less but it costs less. If there ever was a time when they offered the same portion for lunch and dinner at different prices, well that is a good way to go out of business.

5. This one, I do remember. But you make it sound like you are going to see Mickey at V&A's. The upscale places are still there. I can still enjoy a good adult meal at Artist Point, Narcoossees, Jiko, etc.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
OK.....er....

I love the DDP, love making my reservations in advance, and knowing exactly what I am going to eat.

And I don't feel that crowded restaurants and not taking walk-ups are a bad sign. It is a sign of go business. Next time, make a reservation. I have to do it on Saturday night here at home, it shouldn't be that unusual for those in a place as crowded as Disney.

And as Theme Park food goes, its not so bad on the price. I got gouged in Busch Gardens on a class trip I took my kids on. And the quality wasn't even close.
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
OK.....er....

I love the DDP, love making my reservations in advance, and knowing exactly what I am going to eat.

And I don't feel that crowded restaurants and not taking walk-ups are a bad sign. It is a sign of go business. Next time, make a reservation. I have to do it on Saturday night here at home, it shouldn't be that unusual for those in a place as crowded as Disney.

And as Theme Park food goes, its not so bad on the price. I got gouged in Busch Gardens on a class trip I took my kids on. And the quality wasn't even close.
Different strokes for different folks. I personally do not like the DDP but you do, I am glad that at least someone enjoys it. If no one did then I would be wondering why they chose to continue it. :)
 

bjlc57

Well-Known Member
stale or not..

Has the price reduction made WDW enough of a buy, to come this year? or has the lack of improvement and the lack of new rides and better quality rides plus the economy keeping you from a trip?

is this discount enough to sway you? One of the only reasons that I may go is that we now have banked cash with an airline.. and they have to be used within a year..
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
1. I really do not remember this. I remember same day, but not restricted. When Epcot opened I remember making same day ressies at world key kiosks for WS and we did not have AP's. Perhaps you are talking about a different time.

Actually, I wasn't very clear. I meant only locals and later APers could call and make phone reservations two days in advance.

Indeed, anyone was able to make same day reservations at EPCOT locales starting the day the park opened.

2. Well, you sort of answered that one already. I would agree that some menus have been streamlined.

Some?

More like every single one. This began in the late 90s, but has picked up speed since the DDP began.

Most locations will have six-eight entrees. You can count on one being a filet or steak, one being chicken, one being salmon, one being pasta, one being veggie ... it's all the same or very similar despite supposedly being different cuisines.

I mean they serve freaking mac n cheese with a filet at Jiko ... that isn't African no matter how they spin it. It's pure and simple American 'comfort' food.


3. You are kind of contradicting your "walmarting" statement here. Cheaper restaurants offer soup/salad with your entree. A la Carte is offered more and more now, not just Disney. However, the level of salads everywhere has gone up because of it. Salads offered with meals are generally generic. Iceburg lettuce, one slice of tomato, one slice of cucumber, and some cheap dressing. I would rather pay seven or eight bucks and get a proper salad.

I also remember when milk was a dollar. Prices do raise.


A la carte pricing is done for one reason and one only: because it makes more money for the restaurant. Why include something that you can charge for? It reminds me of Boatwright's as an example ... when that place opened every entree came with a bottomless (think Olive Garden, just a whole lot better) bowl of salad with their homemade garlic, buttermilk ranch dressing. After 3-4 years, they still included it, but you had to ask for refills, it wasn't offered. Then they started charging extra for it ... but it was very nominal ... I think like $1.89 a person. Then, they stopped and you could get a one plate salad that was tiny and was about $2.99 ... last I checked it was a small salad for about $5.99. It's all about money ... oh and the homemade dressing is long gone, replaced by some generic stuff they serve at multiple locales around property.

And I disagree that the salads included used to be cheap and basic. They were as good or better quality than what is offered today.

Of course, you can build a check in a hurry if you add a salad for four people at say $6 a shot (we know at the finer places it's closer to double that).


4. A filet at Le Cellier is $25.99 for lunch. It is $34.99 for dinner. The portion might be less but it costs less. If there ever was a time when they offered the same portion for lunch and dinner at different prices, well that is a good way to go out of business.

The portions were the same or very similar. And none of Disney's resturants came close to going out of business, let alone lose money. The one difference was dinner was more expensive, but came with soup or salad, while lunch just included the entree.

As for the $34.99 filet entree at Le Cellier considering that within the last two years the same meal (likely using higher quality ingredients) was close to the lunch price, I have a huge issue with it.

I can get the same quality at Mythos at IOA for under $20 (I think it was like $17.99 and then get 10% off that as an APer). Disney's costs and quality in no way justify a double the price deal. This is gouging because either A.) people on the DDP will think they're getting a better deal (which is all BS anyway); and B.) the poor 'fools' not on DDP ... like locals will shell out the extra $$$ and Disney gets to make even more.


5. This one, I do remember. But you make it sound like you are going to see Mickey at V&A's. The upscale places are still there. I can still enjoy a good adult meal at Artist Point, Narcoossees, Jiko, etc.

No. That's not what I am saying at all.

The three places you mention are among my favorites at WDW. But their prices have gone through the roof the past 2-3 years ... they are now in many cases beyon absurd.

$43 salmon at Artist Point? a $26 veggie entree at Jiko.

Pure and simple gouging of guests.
 

Computer Magic

Well-Known Member
$43 salmon at Artist Point? a $26 veggie entree at Jiko.

Pure and simple gouging of guests.
That price is to entice people to use the dining plan. Then it looks like a great savings. If you don't use the dining plan then the guest is getting screwed.

I use the dining plan today but enjoyed the plan pre 2005. More water down crap

I see a lot of us complaining, but how do we change it? The economy is forcing Disney to offer attractive pricing, but they are cutting back entertainment. How do we get quality back into the system?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
OK.....er....

I love the DDP, love making my reservations in advance, and knowing exactly what I am going to eat.

And I don't feel that crowded restaurants and not taking walk-ups are a bad sign. It is a sign of go business. Next time, make a reservation. I have to do it on Saturday night here at home, it shouldn't be that unusual for those in a place as crowded as Disney.

And as Theme Park food goes, its not so bad on the price. I got gouged in Busch Gardens on a class trip I took my kids on. And the quality wasn't even close.


It may be great for you ... and many others ... but it's not for everyone, that's for sure.

You may know what and where you want to have lunch on Feb. 2nd today ... but what about a local who doesn't even know he/she will be there then?

I guess we just screw them since they didn't call the WDTC at 7 a.m. on the morning their 180 day window opened.

It's just ridiculous.

I understand Disney wanting to fill every table. But when someone shows up at 5:30 at Le Cellier and is willing to wait for a table (even a few hours) they should be able to get in as a walk up.

It is very bad policy to tell them there is one place they can get in without a PS (usually Morocco) if they can wait for an 8:50 PS or they can dine on chicken fingers (oh wait, they dumbed those down to cheaper nuggets didn't they?) or the worst theme park burgers anywhere.
 

yankspy

Well-Known Member
Actually, I wasn't very clear. I meant only locals and later APers could call and make phone reservations two days in advance.
I understand now.
Indeed, anyone was able to make same day reservations at EPCOT locales starting the day the park opened.



Some?

More like every single one. This began in the late 90s, but has picked up speed since the DDP began.

Most locations will have six-eight entrees. You can count on one being a filet or steak, one being chicken, one being salmon, one being pasta, one being veggie ... it's all the same or very similar despite supposedly being different cuisines.

I mean they serve freaking mac n cheese with a filet at Jiko ... that isn't African no matter how they spin it. It's pure and simple American 'comfort' food.

Agreed on that one.



A la carte pricing is done for one reason and one only: because it makes more money for the restaurant. Why include something that you can charge for? It reminds me of Boatwright's as an example ... when that place opened every entree came with a bottomless (think Olive Garden, just a whole lot better) bowl of salad with their homemade garlic, buttermilk ranch dressing. After 3-4 years, they still included it, but you had to ask for refills, it wasn't offered. Then they started charging extra for it ... but it was very nominal ... I think like $1.89 a person. Then, they stopped and you could get a one plate salad that was tiny and was about $2.99 ... last I checked it was a small salad for about $5.99. It's all about money ... oh and the homemade dressing is long gone, replaced by some generic stuff they serve at multiple locales around property.

And I disagree that the salads included used to be cheap and basic. They were as good or better quality than what is offered today.

Of course, you can build a check in a hurry if you add a salad for four people at say $6 a shot (we know at the finer places it's closer to double that).

Honestly, the included salad deal became less frequent largely due to huge fluctuations in lettuce prices for a couple of years. I can remember this from when I used to buy produce for a restaurant at a farmers market. Lettuce would literally go from $14.00 a case one week to $50.00 the next. This happened for a while. You are correct in that charging for salads is a nice way to build up a check. Whether the salds were cheap and basic back then, well I guess that is largely subjective so there is no way to to come to a consensus there.


The portions were the same or very similar. And none of Disney's resturants came close to going out of business, let alone lose money. The one difference was dinner was more expensive, but came with soup or salad, while lunch just included the entree.

As for the $34.99 filet entree at Le Cellier considering that within the last two years the same meal (likely using higher quality ingredients) was close to the lunch price, I have a huge issue with it.

I can get the same quality at Mythos at IOA for under $20 (I think it was like $17.99 and then get 10% off that as an APer). Disney's costs and quality in no way justify a double the price deal. This is gouging because either A.) people on the DDP will think they're getting a better deal (which is all BS anyway); and B.) the poor 'fools' not on DDP ... like locals will shell out the extra $$$ and Disney gets to make even more.
Food has become more expensive everywhere. You may be right. I could not say for certain unless I personally saw how each restaurant operates. It is hard to compare two separate restaurants. There are so many variables involved. As far as the DDP, you will never see me defending it. I do not like it at all either.



No. That's not what I am saying at all.

The three places you mention are among my favorites at WDW. But their prices have gone through the roof the past 2-3 years ... they are now in many cases beyon absurd.

$43 salmon at Artist Point? a $26 veggie entree at Jiko.

As far as I can see, the Salmon at Artist point is $34.00. Furthermore, it is King Salmon which is more expensive because it is a wild Salmon. The Strip seems a little high at $42.00 but beef prices have gone up in the last few years as well. The Veggie dish at Jiko appears to have truffle oil in it which would make it an expensive dish to produce.

Pure and simple gouging of guests.
As I said, whether it is gouging or not, I do not think that either of us could say for sure unless we were able to actually see some hard numbers.
 

davis_unoxx

Well-Known Member
well, that's cause DL's PoC got an entirely new modern sound system, which sounds great while the MK got a few modern speakers mixed in with the '73 originals, which makes for a bleeding mix of sounds ... some too loud, many too soft and all grating. But at WDW management feels there's no need to go the extra mile and they look to cut at every juncture.



I have as much confidence in their management as I do that of Lehman Bros and AIG and our government in general. In other words -- NONE!



I don't know Lee. I know he's considered the insider guru of this site much like my pal Lee MacDonald at LaughingPlace.com ... of course, Leemac actually works for TWDC so he's privy to quite a lot, but only spills when he is allowed to by his handlers. I don't want to contradict Lee, but I know of absolutely no solid plans for ANYTHING at WDW now, especially DAK. If they loosen any pursestrings, I'd look for it to manifest itself in the Mermaid clone at MK and the Monsters coaster for The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios. Last I heard for DAK was that they were trying to resurrect Rivers of Light from the trash heap (after a whole lot of development dollars were spent) ... I've also seen a model of a certain large TDS attraction located appoximately where the character meet, greet and grope land is, but that was a few years back and I believe it was strictly blue sky.

It will be a very sad day on 10-1-11 if TWDC once again chooses to ignore a milestone MK B-Day and doesn't celebrate with a new attraction(s) and parade and pyro show. But right now, all I'd expect is crappy LE pin sets!
Rivers of light was in planning before 2008? Wow Disney is slow!
 

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