Four Parks: One Stale World?

tirian

Well-Known Member
I haven't been to TDL yet (going next year). But I have been an APer at DL and DLP (along with WDW). And I recently visited HKDL for the first time.

Comparing Disney with Disney, O-Town comes up on the short side of almost everything except size, resorts, dining options and recreational options.

There are things at WDW that I love and can't get elsewhere, but most aren't park-related, they're resort-related.

If not for EPCOT and DAK, I'd likely not keep my WDW AP. I likely spend 70% of my WDW time at the two of those parks because they have many unique and wonderful things.

My advice to any Disney lover who only visits WDW would be to spread your wings and horizons a bit and see what else Disney offers ... you'll likely be quite pleased with what you see.

Yet I still prefer the MK over DL and TDL. (I've never been to HKDL.) :shrug:
DLP is gorgeous but it can't maintain what it has for anything.

I know it doesn't make sense. Call it nostalgia. Please don't throw tomatoes at me.

EDIT:
Again, I agree that WDW has had many problems, but I don't think it will be stale much longer. (My opinion is based on several factors that I cannot discuss.)
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It's so goshdarned obvious that WDW1974 expects waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much from Disney.

It's one thing to have high expectations, but to have ridiculously high/unrealistic expectations (like what WDW1974) is a whole different story.

I think a lot of you are only agreeing with him because you know how he acts on other forums. And that if you disagree with him just once, he'll jump down your throat and assault you and say nothing but bad things about you until you're dead.

I still wish that those voices of reason known as Enderikari and Wannab@dis would get back onto this forum to yell at '74 as punishment for his lifetime of foolishness, name-calling, attitude problems, selfishness, self-centered behaviors, etc.

OK, I admit it -- you've won me over with your charm!

I can't decide what is more amusing, you or the talking heads I'm listening to on CNN right now.

Would you like a free Fastpass?
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
First off, while I agree with much of what WDW has to say here, I'm also not as cynical as him. I do take the HM upgrade at least as a step in the right direction. If only Pirates had gotten the same treatment (I'm still disapointed that they felt it was good enough to leave a crappy sound system in that attraction), and if Space would truly get the refurb it deserves then maybe we'd be on the right track. Well things aren't looking promising.

While I'm not as cynical as he is, I don't think he's wrong.

the reason the other parks such as Paris and Hong Kong do so much more is because quite frankly, they need it more than WDW does. They HAVE to try harder there. Not so much for Orlando becuase unfortunately, as much as I'd like to see the next POTC, I and the rest of us who want to see it, are a minority. Everyone else is pretty content with MILF (god, that needs a new name XD) Jack Sparrow and HSM.

So that makes it ok? Since they bring in good numbers they can deliver a sub par show. Walt would have been sick with that. He believed that the show must come first above everything else. For years the resort did things that weren't cost efficient because they were the right thing to do and in the end the right thing to do always brings guests back more often than just good enough. Unfortunately WDW has been given just good enough for too long. Over the past several years we can only really point to one attraction (Everest) that was more than just good enough.

I want WDW a premiere location again, one that prides on being the best in theme park entertainment. Right now its living on its reputation alone and people are noticing. Its like having a favorite restaurant that used to have the best food, now that its popular they just serve frozen food. All the regulars notice that it doesn't taste as good anymore and they start complaining. Many people who don't know how good it used to be keep coming because they've always heard how good the place is. They come in, they say the food was pretty good, and then they go home. It was ok, but it wasn't great by any means and they have no idea how good it was.

Secondly, I just don't agree with your argument. Even if Paris and Hong Kong go the extra mile because they have to, that doesn't explain Tokyo. That park brings in more guests than it can handle, yet they're the premiere theme park in the world. They don't do anything unless they're going to do it right. When you know that there are parks in the world that are run right, and then you look at your park and see that its just ok. That makes you upset. I'll never get out to Tokyo, but I can get to Orlando. Disney needs to have the same kind of pride in all their parks as they do in Tokyo. Just good enough was never good enough for Walt Disney, it shouldn't be good enough for the company who bears his name today.

It's so goshdarned obvious that WDW1974 expects waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much from Disney.

It's one thing to have high expectations, but to have ridiculously high/unrealistic expectations (like what WDW1974) is a whole different story.

The only way you can say that with a straight face is to have no idea about the other Disney parks out there. All it takes is checking out Tokyo for a moment to know that his expectations are nowhere unrealistic. All it takes is having visited Disney back when the park was run right to know the expectations aren't unrealistic. WDW used to be run to his expectations, many parks in other countries still are. There's no reason why WDW cannot.

Is WDW a better overall experience than anything else in Orlando? It still is although that gap is definitely closing. It used to not even be close. However this whole era of just good enough is really starting to catch up. I for one love Disney, I love the parks, and I have a good time even with just good enough. But I know how great it can be, and I know that if the other parks continue their desire to be perfect that they'll soon overtake Disney in quality. Its at that point that they'll start to lose business. Like I said, their current crowds are due to name recognition solely. They're living off past success. You can only carry that business plan for so long. The good thing is it wouldn't take much to move from just good enough to the premiere park in the US. (I'm not even asking for Tokyo quality since I know there's no OLC here to share the costs). But it wouldn't be that hard for there to be no park anywhere in the US who could even compete with WDW. They just have to try, they just have to have passion. Unfortunately that's been long gone from Orlando.
 

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
Kcnole, not only are you completely wrong with everything you just said again, but do not deny that you really are just as cynical as that no-good darkens-every-forum-he-visits WDW1974! (If '74 can get with name-calling and all that nonense, so can I!)

This forum has become just as bad and hateful of WDW as the always-vile Micechat and it's unfortunate that it's been going in that direction for too long.
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
How about closing this topic?

This whole forum is already in the toilet as it is.

You don't like the discussion so it should be closed? Are we only allowed to say glowing things about Disney on here? If people would quite getting offended that someone might dare question something the mouse does maybe this thread wouldn't be testy? I understand why some people have no problem with the way WDW is run, they just don't remember when it really was better and haven't seen other parks where it really is still better.

All I ask is that they respect that other people may not feel the same way. I'm not going to get worked up that you love everything about WDW (here's a hint, we love WDW too). Just don't get your feelings hurt that we see issues that need to be better. Its like saying someone's not patriotic because they see a problem in America and say something about it. It's the most patriotic thing you can do. I'm not trying to get political here so don't take it that way, just making a comparison. Its like telling me I don't love my sister just because I tell her that her drinking problem is taking her life downhill and I know she can do better. (My sister doesn't have a drinking problem, just another analogy). The only thing I can do if I love her is tell her.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
I think the tides are slowly turning that will eventually bring about the changes in society necessary to make these improvements happen (or make the demise of Walt Disney World happen), not necessarily quickly, but over time. I think this is the case because we are at the beginning of a new era in the United States of “anti-apathy” (I could have just used a positive phrase, but I think this more apt).

You mention the "Wal-Marting" of in America. I think this attitude has come into prominence since the mid-1990s. Most people didn’t recognize the eventual problems that would be caused by going with “cheap and easy”. A large portion of the minority who recognized a problem complained, but didn’t do anything to stop the problem.

Similarly, many people going to Walt Disney World weren’t savvy enough to recognize the cheapening of the parks, and simply bought into the changes hook, line, and sinker. These people are the reason you have generic merchandise everywhere, and everything is dumbed down—because the lowest common denominator was also the common denominator. Others, who didn’t necessarily enjoy what was going on, facilitated it by shrugging it off as what the “market dictated”.

I think this is beginning to change, and will continue to change. People are understanding that the market doesn’t dictate anything independent of what the people dictate to it. There will always be ignorant folks—but instead of trying to appeal to these consumers, I think companies are beginning to understand they need to appeal to a more astute consumer (the idiots will buy whatever everyone else is buying, so it’s not like anything needs to be offered that directly “appeals” to them).

What I mean by this is that many people are reviewing their purchases and starting to determine if the items they’re buying have requisite levels of quality (look at the growth of “health food” stores in recent years—even with the current economic circumstances). People are beginning to scrutinize the decisions of the places in which they invest their money (both in a investment sense and otherwise). In short, Americans are finally starting to drop the laziness, and care. I think today is a prime example of this, with record numbers getting out of their houses (now other factors besides anti-apathy could explain this, but let’s not go down that route—minimally, there is some anti-apathy going on there)…

Management at Walt Disney World can look at the upcoming lull in attendance as simply a result of the economic times. That is probably what they will do. It’s a much more simple solution and spares them any culpability. Alternatively, they could look at it and question what they can do to offer a product that people will continue to buy even when they are trimming the fat out of their budgets.

Maybe management won’t take the latter approach right away. However, I think they will when America’s economy recovers, and they still find themselves having people put up for sale their DVC contracts, or not planning as many annual visits, or beginning to embrace competitors who, although they may not yet have the same level of quality as Disney, are actively challenging Disney (even if this only means one day away from Disney on a trip, if Disney loses one day from each family who normally visited for seven, that is a huge hit).

In my mind, Disney cannot continue to only cater itself towards casual (read: few or once-in-a-lifetime) visitors. It has done so much to sell itself to other demographics, and if it doesn't keep these folks happy, it will suffer financially.

The one way I disagree with you, WDW1974, is on the idea that registering complaints works for us all. This is for a very reason to which you alluded--that you can levy a complaint with someone 'higher up' than the Main Street CM. Most of us cannot do this. Our best recourse is to hurt WDW financially. While I still feel too strongly about the place to ever think about going there less, I can give them less of my money when I'm there. Even this will make a palpable dent and should make a difference.

Don't get me wrong, I think voicing your opinion is important for everyone. At the very least, you can break the rose-colored glasses of others, and get them to think critically about even those things for which they hold a sacred reverence. If you still, overall, enjoy the experience about WDW, but dislike some aspects, hit those aspects financially. That's what I will do, I would encourage others to do the same. Don't like the lower standards of dining? Bring food. Don't like the merchandise? Don't buy it.


I know this post is going to catch flak for being “elitist” or “condescending”, and that’s fine. I have a firm belief that Americans need to raise our standards—not be lazy, not accept cheap and “a lot”, and not embrace mediocrity. Overall, Americans are a great and intelligent people, I just expect us to always act like it. If that makes me an elitist, well, then so be it.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
That's why the AC thing gets on my nerves. Because it's over and done with and nothing the fans do will change it. If Joe Rohde (and others at WDI) couldn't save it, then believe me there's nothing fans can do after the place has been shut down.

It would be better to let Disney know how much you enjoy something they might be thinking of closing soon (like say the CoP) rather than bemoan something that is already dead.
I guess I can speak partially for the Adventurer's Club people...since I am one of them.


I think the reason why many of us are upset (besides the obvious) is because there was no warning about that particular club closing. There was information leeked about other clubs closing...but nowhere was it ever said in any of the rumors that were out there that the Adv. Club was one of them. It really came out of the blue for most of us. Had many of us known it was potentially on the chopping block, I'm sure that work would have been done prior to that to try and change Disney's minds...instead of all the (possibly futile) work that is being done now.

I think, had there been any sort of inkling about it, it would have been "easier" to swallow. (Not totally, of course, but at least we all could have done something to prepare ourselves...if that makes sense.)
 

kcnole

Well-Known Member
but do not deny that you really are just as cynical as that no-good darkens-every-forum-he-visits WDW1974! (If '74 can get with name-calling and all that nonense, so can I!)

I'm not as cynical, I've already pointed out issues that I disagree with him on. That said I'm not going to argue with you about it. You've made up your mind that anyone who sees WDW as anything other than that gleaming city on the hill is a blight that should be banned from the internet. I love WDW, I dream of going back. That I have a broken foot right now and can't make it down for the Halloween season has me bummed.

I see flaws in the park and know it can be better. I hope Disney can make it better. I still love Disney, its like one of my best friends. But its allowing itself to go a bit in its midlife crisis. I'm just hoping it can get back to the place it once was.
 

The_CEO

Well-Known Member
* Sniffs*

Troll Soup?

Just like the economy, forums are bound to have their ups and downs. I don't see why anyone, should be bashing this forum directly. Heck the whole reason for a forum is to gather and collect information with others, discuss and express your views and beliefs.
WDWMagic has been around for a heck of a long time and I consider it a decent place to view anything related to disney over any of the others.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
How about closing this topic?

This whole forum is already in the toilet as it is.

And how come '74 can get away with name-calling, put-downs, insulting others, etc. and the rest of us can't? :confused:
Honestly, I don't know what your beef is with 74 but if you don't like what he posts, there is an ignore feature...trying to bash him (even if you feel you're being bashed...which, I have to say, I've been watching, I haven't seen him bashing here) is not doing you any good...besides possibly getting banned from here. (Which maybe you want, because you obviously don't like it here anyway.)

I'm not trying to harp on you...as I agreed more with wann@be (someone you seem to have liked) more than not, usually, I'm just giving you a friendly suggestion. In this case...there are some valid concerns. Even I'm one who has to agree...and I'm usually tremendously pixie dusted. :wave:
 

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
How about closing this topic?

This whole forum is already in the toilet as it is.

And how come '74 can get away with name-calling, put-downs, insulting others, etc. and the rest of us can't? :confused:

This forum has become just as bad and hateful of WDW as the always-vile Micechat and it's unfortunate that it's been going in that direction for too long.

If this is how you feel.....why are you here? It's as though you walked into a classroom discussion, disagreed with someone's point of view, offered no evidence to support your opinion, and then proceed to tell the teacher, the students, the principal, and the administration how dumb everyone is, that all of them are completely wrong, and that the entire school should be closed. :shrug:

I don't understand your motives.:shrug:
 

ejeremy98

Member
It's important to remember quality versus quantity. The other parks have to continue to slap on more and more rides each year because let's face it, one themeless roller coaster is as forgettable as the next.

Disney doesn't focus on jamming in more and more rides, they focus on planning creative rides that tell a story. For example, if you look at expedition everest purely as a roller coaster, it's not so great. However, it is hands down better than half the coasters at other parks because of the story and theatrics it immerses the guests in. That takes time and planning.

Name a ride at one of the other parks that has the timeless, unforgettable staying power of Pirates of the Caribbean or Splash Mountain.

If you want a lot of new forgettable "rides" you belong at one of the other parks. Disney is for people looking to dream and imagine.
 

nibblesandbits

Well-Known Member
WDWFigment said:
In my mind, Disney cannot continue to only cater itself towards casual (read: few or once-in-a-lifetime) visitors. It has done so much to sell itself to other demographics, and if it doesn't keep these folks happy, it will suffer financially.

Actually, I have to agree with this too. Disney seems to be marketing themselves not as much to get the once in a lifetime visitor (as they once did, what seemed like the main goal a while back) and instead are attempting to get the repeat visitor back, especially with different marketing campaigns and with things like DVC purchases.

The problem becomes, if Disney doesn't realize they are going to have to step it up soon in regards to a lot of things, those loyal customers are going to take a look at what they've got and start thinking...do I want to take my yearly trip back to Disney, as I've always been doing...or do I maybe want to go elsewhere. Once people start doing that (and for some, that may already be happening), then Disney is going to have a very big problem on their hands. Because people will only put up with mediocrity for so long...and unfortunately, it seems that Disney is attempting to skate that fine line and do just enough and not go over the breaking point.

The weird thing is, I find myself in a bit of a conundrum. I enjoy the parks immensely. I get excited about going just as much now, as when I was planning that first trip for myself a little over 3 years ago. Matter of fact, I'm super pumped about going back in December. So, do I still love the parks? Yes, I do. But, I'm slowly realizing that I'm getting close to my point...of realizing that maybe, it really isn't as magical as it may have once been.

That's not to say I won't go back ever again, but it does mean that I'm changing my habits a little bit to fit the new way I'm thinking. I know on recent trips, I haven't been as inclined to purchase many souvineers...as nothing seems special enough really to bring home. There's very little I feel that I have to have. And worse yet, very little I feel is worth the money to spend on souvineers to bring back to my family. I can't tell you how hard it was to buy stuff for my family on this last trip. I was in the store for like an hour and when I left, I still wasn't really thrilled with what I ended up bringing home. Come to think of it, what I did end up buying for myself was only because it was reasonably priced--on clearance, as what I really wanted was more than I wanted to spend.

The thing is, when those of us who were "pixie" dusted" start wavering...Disney has a major problem. I'm one who is hopeful that things are going to be turning around. Unfortunately, Disney is taking their own sweet time delivering any news for those of us who are patiently (or unpatiently) waiting for it.
 

hrcollectibles

Active Member
Well, I got one piece of news from this rant: 4 parks, 1 world, eh? Well, I don't really like it but HEY; wayaganna do? I do agree that we could use some more new stuff here. Disneyland's getting new stuff every other minute, wether it be a new effect or a new merch. item or a new "attraction" to a new refurb. But, while we don't get that much, recently we're getting the KPWSA and Pixie Hollow, not to mention the christmas stuffs and the rest of it. So yeah, I think that there should be more re-furbing going on (and I'd LOVE to hear a new announcement right about now), but for right now, we have enough new things to keep most at bay. So no, in my opinion, the parks are not stale.


Whats KPWSA?
 

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