Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Lol...this is laughable
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FL Governor tells CDC to get its act together
- Thread starter ChuckElias
- Start date
Your statements are honestly just nonsense. Even when all the hygiene requirements are met (and I think all the cruise lines are happy to meet those), it still will be impossible to sail to many (if not most) US and/or Caribbean ports. And since "cruises to nowhere" are still illegal in the US, that pretty much kills the possibility of cruising at all. It has nothing to do with wanting to spend money or wanting to take responsibility.
Fine print with a huge impact: Ports struggle with CDC terms
The CDC's Conditional Sailing Order includes requirements ports would be hard-pressed to meet, some say.
www.travelweekly.com
nickys
Premium Member
There already is one cruise ship sailing “to nowhere” up the South Carolina coast. So it can’t be illegal. Now it could be that’s a rarity and is actually an American company operating it, which would explain it.Your statements are honestly just nonsense. Even when all the hygiene requirements are met (and I think all the cruise lines are happy to meet those), it still will be impossible to sail to many (if not most) US and/or Caribbean ports. And since "cruises to nowhere" are still illegal in the US, that pretty much kills the possibility of cruising at all. It has nothing to do with wanting to spend money or wanting to take responsibility.
Fine print with a huge impact: Ports struggle with CDC terms
The CDC's Conditional Sailing Order includes requirements ports would be hard-pressed to meet, some say.
And I believe one cruise line has already announced sailing from Barbados and including a couple of ports.
Sorry, I wrote too quickly. You're right, of course, that US-flagged ships can cruise to nowhere or between US ports with no Jones Act restrictions. And there's more than one. I'm pretty sure American Queen Steamboat company is sailing the Mississippi River, and American Cruise Line is sailing as well.
But none of the mainstream cruise lines that we're talking about is US-flagged. (With the exception of NCL's Pride of America, just so nobody can play "gotcha").
American Cruise Lines, American Queen Steamboat Co. are first lines to resume sailing in US waters
Ships from American Cruise Lines and American Queen Steamboat Company begin sailing this weekend, the first to do so in a year.
www.usatoday.com
nickys
Premium Member
I think several Caribbean countries have announced their requirements for cruise passengers.
The Bahamas have, for example, and they will cause some issues for the cruise lines. As in, you need to have had a negative PCR test within the previous three days AND have one of the rapid tests on the day of arrival before disembarkation.
The Bahamas have, for example, and they will cause some issues for the cruise lines. As in, you need to have had a negative PCR test within the previous three days AND have one of the rapid tests on the day of arrival before disembarkation.
We're still waiting for a cruise line to spell out why the protocols are too onerous. They either just cancel, or in the case of Carnival, threaten to take their business elsewhere.
It would be nice for a cruise line to make the case you're making for them instead of you and all of us guessing and presuming what the problem is.
Don't you think it odd that a cruise line hasn't made that case yet? So far, all we got from them was high dudgeon that the Conditional Sail order was extended to November. Which was a lie. It always had an expiration date of November.
Don't you think it odd that the cruise lines got the operations technical specs they've been calling for and then haven't said anything (except for Carnival threatening to take their business elsewhere)?
Plus, what you just said is nonsense. You say cruise lines are happy to meet the protocol, but somehow they can't?
Why exactly is it "impossible" for them to sail if they're "happy" to put in the protocols in place?
And why are people so keen to defend the cruise lines? Just think back to all the shady stuff they've been doing over the years: terrible work conditions for the lower deck staff; avoiding the more stringent U.S. labor and health laws by registering in foreign countries; sick boats stuck out at sea; boats that lost power and people were stuck out at sea for a weak with piling up sewage, etc...
I've said above that I'm willing to be proven wrong. But people just surmising that the cruise lines are just victims of the CDC with no real proof of that, but just an emotional argument, isn't going to prove me wrong.
aliceismad
Well-Known Member
Foreign-flagged ships are required per the Jones Act to stop in at least one foreign port. It's a Border Patrol and Customs issues due to immigration concerns.
I don't think that's holding anything up for the cruise lines at this point, though. RCI and NCL have made/are making deals with ports for stops or embarkation/debarkation in Mexico, the Bahamas, Bermuda, Jamaica, Honduras, Belize, St. Lucia, Barbados, St. Maarten, and Antigua. Personally I think the few announced cruises by RCI and NCL are just a stop gap - a proof of concept to get people to feel comfortable booking until U.S. ports are opened.
There has been a lot of to-do about the ships' HVAC systems and upgrading those. Not sure at what cost or to what extent work has been done.
LIVE: Florida suing federal government, CDC over cruise industry shutdown
Florida's governor says the Sunshine State is "fighting back" against the year-long shutdown of the cruise industry.
www.wflx.com
After a week of threatening legal action against the CDC, Governor DeSantis is following through on his threat and initiating legal action. I think this will get things moving. One way or the other.
LIVE: Florida suing federal government, CDC over cruise industry shutdown
Florida's governor says the Sunshine State is "fighting back" against the year-long shutdown of the cruise industry.www.wflx.com
After a week of threatening legal action against the CDC, Governor DeSantis is following through on his threat and initiating legal action. I think this will get things moving. One way or the other.
From the article:
The CDC began taking steps to restart the cruise industry back in October when it issued a "conditional sailing order" that sets guidelines for how cruise lines test and screen crew members for COVID-19.
It will be interesting to see the language of the suit claiming that the CDC isn't allowing cruising when there is a process for allowing cruising.
The only question is whether the suit will be dismissed for lack of standing or for lack of fact.
I believe the crux of the lawsuit is that the CDC overstepped its authority in issuing the blanket restrictions. It's not so much that there is a process for allowing resumption of cruises. The state's lawsuit suggests that comparable industries have been allowed to operate with none of the restrictions present in the CSO, yet cruising is subject to these arbitrary conditions and still shutdown. He is looking to get everything in the CSO tossed.
Honestly he'd have less of a leg to stand on if the CDC wasn't so apparently hostile to the cruising industry. Their own actions are their biggest detriment.
Did you read the article. It spells out EXACTLY why the Phase 2 protocols are too onerous. Here it is again. . .
Fine print with a huge impact: Ports struggle with CDC terms
The CDC's Conditional Sailing Order includes requirements ports would be hard-pressed to meet, some say.
www.travelweekly.com
Why? Who cares who points out the facts to you? They are facts, nonetheless.
No. Not even a little bit. PR. There's an industry coalition (CLIA) to speak for them so that they don't look like money-hungry monolith corporations that don't care about the health and safety of their clients.
No, Not even a little bit. See above.
And again, I will ask. . . Did you read the article?? The cruise lines have already completed Phase 1 of the Framework -- happily. But Phase 2 requires conditions that many ports themselves cannot fulfill. That's not the fault of the cruise lines. That's the result of CDC's onerous requirements.
1) We love cruising. We don't like cruising. We love cruising.
2) The economic impact to thousands of ancillary businesses (not to mention tens of thousands of individual employees, business owners, and municipalities).
3) Basic fairness. Hotels, airlines, theme parks, restaurants, churches, trains, sporting events, live entertainment have been allowed to resume operations with reasonable covid precautions. But somehow, for some reason, cruising has been singled out as being too dangerous. This is fundamentally unfair.
Have you ever heard of a "red herring". If not, you just presented one.
I think you may be posting in the wrong forum.
Bob Harlem
Well-Known Member
LIVE: Florida suing federal government, CDC over cruise industry shutdown
Florida's governor says the Sunshine State is "fighting back" against the year-long shutdown of the cruise industry.www.wflx.com
After a week of threatening legal action against the CDC, Governor DeSantis is following through on his threat and initiating legal action. I think this will get things moving. One way or the other.
Cruises will from be happening in July from the US one way or the other.
Florida's claim is that the Federal Government, through the CDC, did not follow the requirements of the Administrative Procedure Act which requires broadly that appropriate consultation take place before significant changes occur. Recourse that they are looking for is an injunction by the court to stop the operation and enforcement of the Conditional Sailing Order and allow cruise ships to operate.
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aliceismad
Well-Known Member
From this article, this is a huge issue: "In order for a ship to obtain a Conditional Sailing Certificate, the CSO requires that cruise lines enter into agreements with shoreside healthcare entities and port authorities regarding the care and evacuation of patients and also be able to isolate and quarantine Covid-19 cases and their close contacts."Did you read the article. It spells out EXACTLY why the Phase 2 protocols are too onerous. Here it is again. . .
Fine print with a huge impact: Ports struggle with CDC terms
The CDC's Conditional Sailing Order includes requirements ports would be hard-pressed to meet, some say.
The CDC doesn't want another ship floating around with a bunch of infected people. I've seen what NCL and RCI say about what they can do on the ship should you become infected, but I haven't seen a plan for how to disembark sick people. Perhaps requiring vaccinations would minimize that worry, but it doesn't take it to zero.
CLIA says it takes about 90 days to ready a ship for sail, so if a ship started prepping today, that pushes sailing to 7 July.
Bob Harlem
Well-Known Member
U.S. Transportation Secretary: Cruises could restart by midsummer
The highest ranking federal official has provided a ray of hope for cruises restarting sometime soon.U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg...
aliceismad
Well-Known Member
St. Maarten and Royal Caribbean Meet, Discuss Homeporting
St. Maarten and Royal Caribbean Meet, Discuss Homeporting - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News
The management of Port St. Maarten has met with Royal Caribbean Group executives for strategic discussions concerning further strengthening their partnership. The two groups, among other things, talked about the future homeporting of the Celebrity Millennium in St. Maarten, which starts this...
www.cruiseindustrynews.com
Also some examples here of private companies developing a vaccine passport/database.
COVID-19 vaccine passports will play a part in global travel
The European Union is conforming plans to open borders for vaccinated visitors this summer. As cruise lines will require inoculation, here's what it means for you.
www.cnet.com
Bob Harlem
Well-Known Member
Looks like July is the target (at least for Florida)
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jme
Well-Known Member
This video is much more tolerable when I set the playback speed to x1.75
Here's the filed complaint.
"What the CDC did was completely unlawful."
"What the CDC did was lawful but excessive."
"Here are the things the CDC said cruise lines should do to restart... and we're not going to say whether any attempt was made to follow those protocols."
"The most recent guidelines made things tougher with daily reports rather than weekly... and were not going to mention that the cruise lines were prodding the CDC for those updated guidelines."
"The CDC never said why being in a plane is different than being on a boat... I mean, they're exactly the same, right? (if you ignore the plane's filtered and fresh air circulation)?"
"We have standing... honestly... even though we're not one of the cruise lines who, if they thought they had a case, would have brought the suit themselves."
www.tampabay.com
"What the CDC did was completely unlawful."
"What the CDC did was lawful but excessive."
"Here are the things the CDC said cruise lines should do to restart... and we're not going to say whether any attempt was made to follow those protocols."
"The most recent guidelines made things tougher with daily reports rather than weekly... and were not going to mention that the cruise lines were prodding the CDC for those updated guidelines."
"The CDC never said why being in a plane is different than being on a boat... I mean, they're exactly the same, right? (if you ignore the plane's filtered and fresh air circulation)?"
"We have standing... honestly... even though we're not one of the cruise lines who, if they thought they had a case, would have brought the suit themselves."
DeSantis sues CDC to get cruises restarted. Experts call it a âpolitical stuntâ
The lawsuit was filed Thursday in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida in Tampa against the Department of Health and Human Services, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the agencies’ directors. It asks the court to declare the conditional sail order unlawful.
www.tampabay.com
Archie123
Well-Known Member
Oh Ronnie, I like how you think any cruise line will actually listen to you and your absolute stupidity when you say that cruise lines cannot require passengers to be vaccinated in order to be able to sail even if that's what the cruise lines want to do. Hmmmm, I wonder who is going to win that fight. 
www.yahoo.com
Another cruise line will require vaccines; DeSantis says no
SilverSea Cruises became the second major cruise line to announce it will require COVID-19 vaccinations for all passengers when it resumes global itineraries on June 5. The decision could set up a confrontation with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis when the luxury cruise line is scheduled to sail from...
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