FL Governor tells CDC to get its act together

[aliceismad]

Maybe they should group all the cruiseline workers in with the other people deemed essential. Also, maybe the CDC could add a category 1Dcl. It seems as though you would have to ignore many are non-residents to accomplish this.

If you're speaking about the U.S., almost all of the people who actually work on the ships are not Americans. I don't think people who are not citizens are allowed to get vaccinated here at this time. For people who live in Florida, I believe all residents 16+ are eligible for vaccination starting 5 April, so port workers, etc. will be able to get their shots as they choose.

 

[MaryJaneP]

If you're speaking about the U.S., almost all of the people who actually work on the ships are not Americans. I don't think people who are not citizens are allowed to get vaccinated here at this time. For people who live in Florida, I believe all residents 16+ are eligible for vaccination starting 5 April, so port workers, etc. will be able to get their shots as they choose.

True. Your observation, in our experience, is accurate that most of the workers on the cruise ships are from foreign countries. This highlights the issue of how to simultaneously open cruising while at the same time strictly limiting into whose arms the currently precious vaccine-inventory is injected. Hard to do both at the same time. Something has to give.

 

[Bob Harlem]

Some of the details were finally updated today by the CDC, although it's still based on some outdated data.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/tra...0210402-abuqe3pj3rbwpekytc5gemke3y-story.html

And

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/management/technical-instructions-for-cruise-ships.html for a summary of the details

Some of the details:
Increasing from weekly to daily the reporting frequency of COVID-19 cases and illnesses.
Implementing routine testing of all crew based on each ship’s color status.
Updating the color-coding system used to classify ships’ status with respect to COVID-19.
Decreasing the time needed for a “red” ship to become “green” from 28 to 14 days based on the availability of onboard testing, routine screening testing protocols, and daily reporting.
Creating planning materials for agreements that port authorities and local health authorities must approve to ensure cruise lines have the necessary infrastructure in place to manage an outbreak of COVID-19 on their ships to include healthcare capacity and housing to isolate infected people and quarantine those who are exposed.
Establishing a plan and timeline for vaccination of crew and port personnel.

The new guidelines are the first mention of vaccinations, and they do not require that crew or those working at the ports are vaccinated. (Although many of the CL are working to vaccinate all of the crew, and the Bahamas/Bermuda sailings require vaccines)

 

[ChuckElias]

If there aren't any "CDC technical instructions" issued yet, how can anybody be in violation or not have followed something that does not yet exist?

My guess is that they have no intention of allowing cruising from the US before 2022. So they're dragging their feet on issuing the information necessary for starting the simulated sailings.

 

[MisterPenguin]

My guess is that they have no intention of allowing cruising from the US before 2022. So they're dragging their feet on issuing the information necessary for starting the simulated sailings.

Umm... they were just released.

If the CDC wanted no cruises, they could just reissue the No Sail Order.

Cruise lines could have been cruising since last November. They could have just followed the usual CDC protocols applied to their boats and followed all the other regs. But they didn't.

Now that cruise lines have an updated guideline, which pretty much doesn't change how a cruise would operate with COVID protocols, let's see if the cruise lines restart.

 

[Figgy1]

If you're speaking about the U.S., almost all of the people who actually work on the ships are not Americans. I don't think people who are not citizens are allowed to get vaccinated here at this time. For people who live in Florida, I believe all residents 16+ are eligible for vaccination starting 5 April, so port workers, etc. will be able to get their shots as they choose.

In Florida you need to be a resident but not a citizen

 

[ChuckElias]

Cruise lines could have been cruising since last November. They could have just followed the usual CDC protocols applied to their boats and followed all the other regs. But they didn't.

I just don't think this is true.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I just don't think this is true.

What do you think is the difference between a No Sail order and a Conditional Sail order? Because last November, they went from one to the other.

And if the cruise lines couldn't do anything without further instructions, why only make a stink about it now, rather than last November?

And if you think not... what research did you do to come to that conclusion?

 

[ChuckElias]

And if the cruise lines couldn't do anything without further instructions, why only make a stink about it now, rather than last November?

Because everybody knew they had to complete Phase 1 first and they expected to get the technical instructions in a reasonable amount of time. They've now waited a (more than) reasonable amount of time without further guidance, so they're making noise.

And if you think not... what research did you do to come to that conclusion?

I've spoken to multiple people who are much closer to the situation than I am within my company, which is a large travel agency based in Florida. These people are in regular contact with executives of multiple cruise lines. And they agree that cruises were NOT possible in November as you claimed.

Further, if you don't mind, let me as you a question. If cruise lines could have operated in November under the Conditional Sail Order, as you believe, wouldn't somebody have done it? Would an entire industry choose to lose billions of dollars, rather than comply with covid protocols? How does that possibly make sense? Wouldn't at least one cruise line have said, "Let's try to do this, and see if we can't make a little of our losses back"? Of course they would have.

 

[nickys]

I found this article from ThePointsGuy which explains why cruising hasn’t restarted in the US yet.

Seems the Conditional Sailing Order from November had a road map to restart which included various criteria the cruise lines had to meet on their ships, followed by simulated sailings to prove they could follow the protocol, followed by applying for an actual licence to sail.

More bad news for cruisers: Some of the world's largest lines won't start sailing until May - The Points Guy

Royal Caribbean is the first of the world's four big lines to push its restart date all the way back to May.

thepointsguy.com

However on the front page it also states that there has been one cruise line runnning in the coastal,waters of South Carolina plus river cruises.

When will cruises resume? A line-by-line guide - The Points Guy

Major cruise lines around the world stopped departures in March 2020 as the coronavirus outbreak spread. Here's a look at when they plan to return to the seas.

thepointsguy.com

So maybe you’re both right.

 

[MisterPenguin]

And they agree that cruises were NOT possible in November as you claimed.

Well... that's very non-specific.

The passive voice can leave out a lot of cause and effect.

If the COVID protocols made cruising unprofitable, then, yes, a cruise line would say that "it was not possible" to restart cruising in November.

Notice the lack of saying "the people I know said the cruise lines couldn't restart because they were waiting for more info from the CDC."

I'm still waiting for someone to link me a cruise line rep saying before this past month that they couldn't do anything without further instructions from the CDC.

The CDC said they could start sailing again this past November. They did so by issuing a Conditional Sailing Order. Would love to hear from a cruise line rep why it was impossible to follow that Conditional Sail Order rather than just hearing that for some unspecified reason, they couldn't do it.

 

[monothingie]

The CDC said they could start sailing again this past November. They did so by issuing a Conditional Sailing Order. Would love to hear from a cruise line rep why it was impossible to follow that Conditional Sail Order rather than just hearing that for some unspecified reason, they couldn't do it.

Just look through the archives on CNBC every time one of the cruise line ceos came one. The framework provided no specific technical guidance. It laid out conditions but didn’t provide any metrics to meet them.

Don’t think for a second that this isn’t being slow walked. The current framework isn’t so voluminous that it can’t be updated and reworked in a couple of weeks.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Just look through the archives on CNBC every time one of the cruise line ceos came one. The framework provided no specific technical guidance. It laid out conditions but didn’t provide any metrics to meet them.

Don’t think for a second that this isn’t being slow walked. The current framework isn’t so voluminous that it can’t be updated and reworked in a couple of weeks.

I'm willing to be shown that I'm wrong.

I did my research. I've asked those who've said I'm wrong to provide the link that shows I'm wrong.

That still hasn't happened yet.

 

[monothingie]

I'm willing to be shown that I'm wrong.

I did my research. I've asked those who've said I'm wrong to provide the link that shows I'm wrong.

That still hasn't happened yet.

So what do you think is the answer as to why they didn’t restart in November?

 

[MisterPenguin]

So what do you think is the answer as to why they didn’t restart in November?

It would be nice to here from actual cruise lines in that regard since last November instead of their simple continual cancellation of cruises every few months.

If they wanted to cruise and they were waiting on further clarifications from the CDC, they would have been publicly whipping the CDC, just like the California parks were whipping Newsom over the lack of park protocols that were supposed to come out and kept being delayed.

Where was Bob Chapek's public complaints about the CDC's lack of supposed further guidelines? They had no problem calling out the California governor.

 

[plawren2]

Seems like the major cruise lines including Disney also have be concerned with their image and reputation that would be harmed if they started back cruises (following whatever CDC rules and procedures are in place) and yet had a COVID outbreak - that would be terrible for their business and PR mess. They may being very cautious in terms of planning when to resume cruises.

 

[nickys]

Seems like the major cruise lines including Disney also have be concerned with their image and reputation that would be harmed if they started back cruises (following whatever CDC rules and procedures are in place) and yet had a COVID outbreak - that would be terrible for their business and PR mess. They may being very cautious in terms of planning when to resume cruises.

For a start several cruise lines have resumed sailings in Asia, and almost all are no port cruises.

And now there are at least three cruise lines looking to resume around the U.K. in the Summer. Presumably they’re wanting to use those as proof that they can operate successfully; let’s hope that doesn’t backfire.

 

[Santa Raccoon 77]

@MisterPenguin

Would be nice to hear from cruise companies also

 

[MisterPenguin]

It would be nice to here from actual cruise lines in that regard since last November instead of their simple continual cancellation of cruises every few months.

If they wanted to cruise and they were waiting on further clarifications from the CDC, they would have been publicly whipping the CDC, just like the California parks were whipping Newsom over the lack of park protocols that were supposed to come out and kept being delayed.

Where was Bob Chapek's public complaints about the CDC's lack of supposed further guidelines? They had no problem calling out the California governor.

Well, the cruise lines got their technical operations update from the CDC (which I maintain, they didn't even need, since they were supposed to take the first step with altering their operations and running a practice cruise -- something made clear when one reads the order).

So, now that the cruise line have in their hands the thing they said they were waiting for, they can start to announce they'll be cruising as soon as possible, right?

Not so fast...

CDC Says Cruises Possible by Mid-Summer as Tensions Boil Over​

They just don't want to be bothered with COVID protocols. That's the way it's been since November. That's the way it is now (at least, for Carnival).

They continue to put the blame on the CDC, even though the Conditional Order basically told them to do the same hygiene protocols that indoor dining establishments have had to do. And yet, they claim they're being treated differently than restaurants (as if cruise ships aren't an inherently different creature than a restaurant) even though they're basically not when it comes to hygiene and distancing.

The cruise lines don't want to do the work. They don't want the responsibility for saying they chose not to cruise. They don't want the responsibility for sick passengers. They want the CDC to say, "Go back to normal." And if they do so before everyone can be vaccinated), they can then blame the CDC if anyone gets sick.

"Give us permission to not put in COVID protocols so we can blame you if anyone gets sick!!"

I'm developing a very low opinion of cruise lines (lower than usual).

 

[aliceismad]

Related NCL pitched a plan to the CDC. The following is a quote from the USA Today article:

• All passengers embarking or disembarking at a U.S. port show proof of being fully vaccinated no less than two weeks before departure.
• All crew must be vaccinated at least two weeks before their duties onboard are scheduled to begin.
• Norwegian cruise lines will incorporate safety protocol developed by the Healthy Sail Panel, a task force put together with Royal Caribbean. Protocol includes testing, mask-wearing, sanitizing and more.
• Norwegian lines will start sailing on July 4 with limited capacity starting at 60% and ramping up by 20% every 30 days.

'100% vaccinated': Norwegian announces vaccine requirement for all passengers, crew on cruises

Norwegian says it will require all passengers and crew members to have "full and complete vaccinations" at least two weeks before boarding.

www.usatoday.com

How this will play with the Florida governor's ban on vaccine passports is unknown.