Haymarket2008
Well-Known Member
They gotta get rid of those eyes. Looks like he took a big ol edible and is "flying high" in the Dreammobile.
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EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment
- Thread starter Walrus from Paris
- Start date
They gotta get rid of those eyes. Looks like he took a big ol edible and is "flying high" in the Dreammobile.
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
There are variant stitched/patch eyes they did for both a big headed Figment magnet a few years or so back, and the new Figment heads they recently made for the Customizable Headbands, maybe they could use one of those eye designs for plush going forward, to rep the more upbeat emotion of Figment, to freshen things up
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HMF
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised if a certain cynical group of Imagineers who worked on JIYI were likely brought back on for JIIwF and wanted to make a certain statement to fans of the original attraction and didn't like what they had done to it and JIIwF is that statement.
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
My theory also, but again, have no way of confirming unless someone were to ask some more folks involved about their involvement with it and the stories/the thought process behind each show scene directly. If the ‘99-01 JIYI concept art that’s surfaced on eBay and such is much to go off. I wouldn’t be surprised if initially they started out with some decent ideas.. but then ultimately they got cut to make way for the baffling scenes we got. But yeah.
HMF
Well-Known Member
Well, as far as I know the Imagineers who worked on it are retired but still living. I remember Kathy Mangum's retirement was a few years ago and a pretty big deal.
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
That must be what the initials “KM” on that “focus group” “Small Figment Brain - No Connection” white board in the Sight Lab stand for. Lol
But yeah, ultimately just a shame. Again, she did a brilliant job on the WDW version of Splash Mountain, so it’s honestly such a shock to me after that, the quality went down to ‘that’.
HMF
Well-Known Member
Which means arguably the best work she's ever done no longer exists but her worst lives on.
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
HMF
Well-Known Member
It is basically lipstick on a pig.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
The "space" still technically exists, and I would guess that it's PROBABLY possible to restore the original track length and do SOMETHING with it. However, getting the dreamcatcher sequence functioning to the extent that it originally did seems to be off the table. Insiders Lee and Martin (people here may only know Martin now since Lee went inactive years ago) stated that the structure is completely ruined and will "never turn again" (not my words).
Thanks guys. My pleasure... as always 
As Lee said, the rotating set will never turn again (it wasn`t a turntable as such, more a set of circular rings joining at the hub like a bicycle wheel, with the show scenes suspended between) - and I wouldn`t hope for all the original track to ever be reinstated.
As Lee said, the rotating set will never turn again (it wasn`t a turntable as such, more a set of circular rings joining at the hub like a bicycle wheel, with the show scenes suspended between) - and I wouldn`t hope for all the original track to ever be reinstated.
Now I don't know if this means that it's literally impossible to restore it, or if Disney are too stubborn and stingy to do it. It's hard to fathom that some sort of facsimile would be entirely impossible. Even if it means ripping it out (along with foundational concrete/steel) and rebuilding it from scratch. Maybe expensive and difficult, but I dunno about impossible. Just seems more like something Disney isn't willing to foot the bill for. Especially given that it was always causing maintenance problems, which heavily contributed to the decision to remove it in the first place.
@marni1971 It has been a very long time since that post. Can you provide any additional clarity about the issues with the turning mechanism and what is preventing it from being fixed or rebuilt in some form? Is it truly impossible to get working?
A preshow doesn't actually have to be a film, nor optional. Depends on whether park ops decide they'd rather leave the doors open and let guests skip it (which they sometimes do for Dinosaur and Haunted Mansion). But there's no reason they couldn't recreate the original opening sequence using the same practical setpieces and animatronics in a preshow format.
Last year I edited Parklore's layout into a sort of best case scenario of what a sparknotes iteration of 1.0 would be, assuming they just flat out refuse to fully restore the original's length and turntable-
Dinosaur uses two preshow theaters that are back to back. I did something similar here for the Flight into Imagination scene prior to load, though there's enough space to recreate the physical set and figures. I did admittedly consolidate the load and unload a bit, which is the biggest change. Frees up space for the finale.
The finale would be the biggest overall challenge TBH. You can't just recreate the original circular movie room like the original without actually restoring the full track length. That said, there's an opportunity to do something different now given that Kodak has long since jumped ship as the sponsor. The finale mostly existed as a means to advertise them as a film company. So you don't absolutely HAVE to adhere 100% to that and you can do something a bit different there.
I don't think any of this is a remotely acceptable substitute for a full and proper restoration back to version 1.0. But since that's seemingly 100% off the table, this is basically the best I can conceivably come up with for how to work within the current layout.
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your reasonings and solution to the issue, ‘if’ Disney doesn’t decide to restore/upgrade it in some fashion.
Though I gotta say, where has it been stated or confirmed that it always had maintenance issues? My understanding, according to Tony that was referenced somewhere. It wasn’t that the turntable mech was breaking down, it was simply that when a handicapped guest was getting on or off it (thanks to it being an always moving ride, like SSE & HM), it’d “overcompensate” by, after stopping, it’d speed up the vehicles, then stop yet again to sync up right with the turntable.. and ‘then’ run. Folks thought it was breaking but it Infact wasn’t. I’ve seen that exact thing happen before in recorded video footage. But I’ve never seen it have any massive issues. I can certainly imagine, by projected maintenance costs, the bunch of slide projectors for the spfx in the background within each show quadrant of the turntable cost a lot to fix, but this could easily be simplified now to like 1-3 entirely digital projectors, which would hardly cost anything to maintain comparably. And with a proven popular ride and high merch seller like the original attraction was, I’d say that would cover any maintenance costs easy
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FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
It’s kinda like how Horizons has the whole sink hole rumor/reasoning as to why it closed. Wasn’t that apparently proven false?
FigmentsBrightIdeas
Well-Known Member
Also, even though I totally trust Marni regarding the info he’s given & proven track record. That gift shop area, as I evidenced a few pages prior, actually covered the very same space, if not the same amount. Infact, all that needed to be done for more merch was simply add more merch stands, and maybe some more shelving to that very area, which would’ve been easy & much more worthwhile. Everything else (the current downgraded ImageWorks experience), as referenced prior is former ride track space (film finale/unload/load). And there was plenty of more space via the old Kodak Film & Camera Shop, to put more merch space if needed. But that’s been utilized for Mickey & Goofy meet and greets apparently recently, for Disney Visa Card holders, last I checked.. but that could be different now.
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MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
That sinkhole story was false yes, and Martin was also one of the biggest voices in debunking it. He also debunked a lot of the lies that had been perpetuated by WDW leadership about the closure of 20k Leagues too (like it being in a heavy state of disrepair, something even Disney's own corporate leadership fell for). But Martin has also been on the record numerous times in both posts here and in his Imagination tribute videos in saying that the original version was a big hassle to maintain. Specifically due to the rotating set. I have no reason to disbelieve him on this matter as he would be the first one to challenge any possible BS'ing. Again from the same thread-
This was a very complex ride. And Martin's tribute video also has some further information detailing other issues with it while it was being constructed. Even moreso at the start of his tribute for v2 and v3, which explains even more of the issues. The first 8 minutes of the video have quite a bit of info on it-
The summary of the turning mechanism is that it's "still partially intact but damaged beyond repair".
From what I gather, the ride was actually supposed to open with the park in 1982, but the issues kept compounding and caused it to be delayed significantly. And even when it opened, they never quite worked out the bugs. I've heard posted elsewhere that it was thought that upgrading the computer systems could have largely fixed many of these problems. Generally said to be issues with synchronization. I would guess that these upgrades would indeed have helped. Computer tech had come leaps and bounds since the early 80s and I am of the opinion that the ride absolutely could have been brought up to spec and had most if not all of its issues fixed. But by that point, it was instead decided to get rid of the original entirely and rework it into v2.
Again it isn't the physical space that was the problem. It's the turning mechanism and the way that it interacted and synced up with the ride system. They had major issues with it even during testing, even when they weren't having to stop to deal with guests who were slow to load/unload.
I'm guessing it would be possible to restore the original track length (which I obviously support doing, the old gift shop was big enough as it was). I just wouldn't expect there to ever be a rotating set along with it anymore given the stated issues. And they probably also aren't even willing to alter the track layout again. Not unless it's a far more significant gut and place.
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Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
According to Tony, the synchronization issue stemmed from the ride vehicles being ‘smarter’ then other elements in the system.
The vehicles were purposely designed to ‘think on their own’ and react to their surroundings.
This included knowing where other vehicles were to adjust spacing, as well as knowing when to adjust their movement pacing.
Pretty cutting edge for the time.
They were programmed to operate in a certain set pattern and interact with set elements and different scenes, as well as automatically adjusting themselves when needed.
An example being the vehicles changing from being in a complete unbroken line to then seperating into groups of four during key moments of the Original Attractions experience.
The main problem was the vehicles speed when preparing to enter the first major show scene, the famous rotating staging area with Dreamfinder’s flying contraption.
They were designed to be remotely ‘intelligent’ and ‘know’ when to speed up or slow down to properly time their entrance into the rotating areas.
This had to be timed correctly since each of the five rotating staging areas had an opening availible within a certain block of time.
So this is where the trouble stemmed from…the vehicles would either speed up to enter, or slow down depending on what the sensors and main computer control was communicating to them.
Tony has said the vehicles did what they were designed to do, but other elements were causing the timing issues.
There were many elements that had to work seamlessly together to create what was a incredible four minute ‘magical flight’ with our Pavillion hosts.
They tried for months to figure out how to resolve this..with early tests making the team nervous as it seemed like it wasn’t going to work out.
Eventually a solution of sorts was decided on, but again, the timing issues kept rearing its head on and off.
I clearly remember during one of several ride throughs of mine back in the early 1980s that a Cast Member was purposely placed at the entrance to the rotating show scene.
I remember it well as it was so out of place at the time…you never saw Cast actually inside a ride through Attraction.
But he was there…seated on a stool….next to the opening of the rotating staging area.
His job?
Watch those sets of ride vehicles and make sure none of them got caught in the rotating opening into the show scene.
-
The vehicles were purposely designed to ‘think on their own’ and react to their surroundings.
This included knowing where other vehicles were to adjust spacing, as well as knowing when to adjust their movement pacing.
Pretty cutting edge for the time.
They were programmed to operate in a certain set pattern and interact with set elements and different scenes, as well as automatically adjusting themselves when needed.
An example being the vehicles changing from being in a complete unbroken line to then seperating into groups of four during key moments of the Original Attractions experience.
The main problem was the vehicles speed when preparing to enter the first major show scene, the famous rotating staging area with Dreamfinder’s flying contraption.
They were designed to be remotely ‘intelligent’ and ‘know’ when to speed up or slow down to properly time their entrance into the rotating areas.
This had to be timed correctly since each of the five rotating staging areas had an opening availible within a certain block of time.
So this is where the trouble stemmed from…the vehicles would either speed up to enter, or slow down depending on what the sensors and main computer control was communicating to them.
Tony has said the vehicles did what they were designed to do, but other elements were causing the timing issues.
There were many elements that had to work seamlessly together to create what was a incredible four minute ‘magical flight’ with our Pavillion hosts.
They tried for months to figure out how to resolve this..with early tests making the team nervous as it seemed like it wasn’t going to work out.
Eventually a solution of sorts was decided on, but again, the timing issues kept rearing its head on and off.
I clearly remember during one of several ride throughs of mine back in the early 1980s that a Cast Member was purposely placed at the entrance to the rotating show scene.
I remember it well as it was so out of place at the time…you never saw Cast actually inside a ride through Attraction.
But he was there…seated on a stool….next to the opening of the rotating staging area.
His job?
Watch those sets of ride vehicles and make sure none of them got caught in the rotating opening into the show scene.
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jah4955
Well-Known Member
It was worth it all many times over. It felt so "special" being in a small group while The Dreamfinder "spoke to YOU." With the advancements of the last 42+ years I gotta believe recreating this would be easier!
Mike S
Well-Known Member
You’d think but then you remember the cannons on Rise of the Resistance.
jah4955
Well-Known Member
I have a lot of "catching up" to do at WDW....but IF I do, it seems that I won't get to enjoy "new" experiences at their "peak"
Disgruntled Walt
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
I say make the ride trackless, that way you can replicate the turntable without actually having to build a complicated turntable system.
