EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

[pdude81]

Yeah, it's slowly become clearer over the past five years up until now, and the fact they haven't prioritized Imagination seems obvious, whether that's for the better, or for worse. I do remember back in August of 2019, when you claimed a redo was on the horizon five years from now, one that may even include both Figment and Dreamfinder based around talks you heard going around WDI. I know with everything going on it's hard to tell, but has anything changed since then? It seems as if WDI has great interest in Figment himself, and he sells like crazy, so is it really out of the realm of possibility that we may finally get the attraction we've been waiting for, or rather at the very least, an attraction featuring Figment?

I'm certainly not speaking for him, but hasn't everything changed since then? I can't imagine there is any current thought about updating Imagination (good or bad) inside WDI given that the virus is slow-rolling E-tickets currently under construction

 

[SplashJacket]

Its not a "breather" when they cancel announced projects...SE needs work, a lot of work, and they just shelved it indefinitely. The central Spine, love it or hate it, got a major focal point canceled. They also are eliminating Magical Express, shelved almost all live entertainment, eliminated EMH and a boat load of other cutbacks that will likely never return.

They are completing a few things they had in process, but basically scrapped everything else.

The issue is that Uni will continue to invest and build, while WDW continues to stress the bounds of price to value.

The major focal point of the central spine has not been canceled. It has been delayed. The festival area is simply a placeholder for a couple of years from the sound of it.

The live entertainment cuts should just be cuts during the pandemic. The only long-term cancelations that I know of are the Nemo show and RoL.

The Magical Express and EMH moves confuse me, but that has nothing to do with investment into the parks.

As for Spaceship Earth, who knows what's going to happen. The general consensus was that the redo was probably not going to be the best, so maybe it's a good thing it never got off the ground.

But Universal is going to continue to invest and build but so is Disney. Disney has done substantially more construction during this time than Universal. They delayed their 3rd gate to ~2025. The combined work on Guardians, Tron, and Ratatouille, while slow, is not a zero amount of work. Velocicoaster was is a single project that Universal is working on. While Universal has a tendency to announce projects at the last minute, the only project opening that we know of is the Velocicoaster. To my belief, Universal didn't open anything in 2020, and will only open one project in 2021. There is nothing on the radar for 2022 or 2023 but they could always surprise us. I'm well aware that a full new gate is a very large investment, but Universal is not spending more capital on their parks right now than Disney -- and they shouldn't be, since their resort is substantially smaller, but Disney is not in hibernation mode.

This is a very bizarre time, and quite frankly, what Disney is doing is fine. It isn't the best situation for guests, but it is fine. When it comes to investing strategies there's a couple.

1. Constant investment regardless of the current economic situation.
2. Investment during prosperous times.
3. Investment during recession times.
4. Constant negligible investment.

During the 2001-2010 time period, Disney did strategy number 4 but then pivoted to strategy number 2 which does two main things, capitalizes on the current good economy by driving up attendance and provides an incentive to people to visit during future recession times. It allows the company to ride out bad times when funds are low by investing when funds are abundant.

Since it's corona time, there's a general consensus that Disney is not expected to shell out a ton of money. They're not even going full DEFCON. Tron and Guardians have not been cut. They're doing the bare minimum, yes, but it is a lot better than 2001-2010 Disney, granted, that's a low bar, but Disney isn't slamming on the brakes, they're just decelerating, but as I said in my first post, they were planning on slowing down anyway, so corona time is less causing massive cancelations but more stretching out the time table.

The Mary Poppins cancelation is barely negative. From my understanding, it was a faulty project from the start.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

Remember how gigantic the show building is and how massive the dreamport is and the fact the ride has been going through a box in parts it’s going to be great now you see it again I bet and that wheel is ready to be used again this is going to be a great show 2.0 if they use the entire ride building

"When is the next monorail" person, is that you?

 

[marni1971]

Yeah, it's slowly become clearer over the past five years up until now, and the fact they haven't prioritized Imagination seems obvious, whether that's for the better, or for worse. I do remember back in August of 2019, when you claimed a redo was on the horizon five years from now, one that may even include both Figment and Dreamfinder based around talks you heard going around WDI. I know with everything going on it's hard to tell, but has anything changed since then? It seems as if WDI has great interest in Figment himself, and he sells like crazy, so is it really out of the realm of possibility that we may finally get the attraction we've been waiting for, or rather at the very least, an attraction featuring Figment?

I don’t think I mentioned Dreamfinder for a new version did I ?

I know I mentioned Inside Out (though I wish I hadn’t)

The pavilion was slipping further back even before Covid. A year ago the projected closure was at least 2023.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I'm certainly not speaking for him, but hasn't everything changed since then? I can't imagine there is any current thought about updating Imagination (good or bad) inside WDI given that the virus is slow-rolling E-tickets currently under construction

I'm aware of this, but I was more referring to any discussions they've had in between then and now regarding Figment's presence in the park and whether he deserves his own attraction, let's say... seven years down the line, just to make an estimated guess... although they probably aren't thinking about it too much atm.

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ]

I don’t think I mentioned Dreamfinder for a new version did I ?

Can you?

 

[marni1971]

The major focal point of the central spine has not been canceled. It has been delayed. The festival area is simply a placeholder for a couple of years from the sound of it.

The live entertainment cuts should just be cuts during the pandemic. The only long-term cancelations that I know of are the Nemo show and RoL.

The Magical Express and EMH moves confuse me, but that has nothing to do with investment into the parks.

As for Spaceship Earth, who knows what's going to happen. The general consensus was that the redo was probably not going to be the best, so maybe it's a good thing it never got off the ground.

But Universal is going to continue to invest and build but so is Disney. Disney has done substantially more construction during this time than Universal. They delayed their 3rd gate to ~2025. The combined work on Guardians, Tron, and Ratatouille, while slow, is not a zero amount of work. Velocicoaster was is a single project that Universal is working on. While Universal has a tendency to announce projects at the last minute, the only project opening that we know of is the Velocicoaster. To my belief, Universal didn't open anything in 2020, and will only open one project in 2021. There is nothing on the radar for 2022 or 2023 but they could always surprise us. I'm well aware that a full new gate is a very large investment, but Universal is not spending more capital on their parks right now than Disney -- and they shouldn't be, since their resort is substantially smaller, but Disney is not in hibernation mode.

This is a very bizarre time, and quite frankly, what Disney is doing is fine. It isn't the best situation for guests, but it is fine. When it comes to investing strategies there's a couple.

1. Constant investment regardless of the current economic situation.
2. Investment during prosperous times.
3. Investment during recession times.
4. Constant negligible investment.

During the 2001-2010 time period, Disney did strategy number 4 but then pivoted to strategy number 2 which does two main things, capitalizes on the current good economy by driving up attendance and provides an incentive to people to visit during future recession times. It allows the company to ride out bad times when funds are low by investing when funds are abundant.

Since it's corona time, there's a general consensus that Disney is not expected to shell out a ton of money. They're not even going full DEFCON. Tron and Guardians have not been cut. They're doing the bare minimum, yes, but it is a lot better than 2001-2010 Disney, granted, that's a low bar, but Disney isn't slamming on the brakes, they're just decelerating, but as I said in my first post, they were planning on slowing down anyway, so corona time is less causing massive cancelations but more stretching out the time table.

The Mary Poppins cancelation is barely negative. From my understanding, it was a faulty project from the start.

Universal opened the Bourne stunt show in 2020.

 

[marni1971]

Can you?

I wish.

 

[marni1971]

The major focal point of the central spine has not been canceled. It has been delayed. The festival area is simply a placeholder for a couple of years from the sound of it..

I’m happy to say if we see Bobs folly - aka the Bar on legs - I’ll be surprised.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

I don’t think I mentioned Dreamfinder for a new version did I ?

I know I mentioned Inside Out (though I wish I hadn’t)

Martin between this and your post about agreeing with the general consensus of WDI not caring what we want you're not exactly being very reassuring right now

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

At this point I'll settle for anything that's better than the current attraction, and at the very, very least, includes Figment... with an improved personality as well.

 

[SplashJacket]

I’m happy to say if we see Bobs folly - aka the Bar on legs - I’ll be surprised.

I'm not sure who said it, but I believe someone recently said that an exec was pushing for it a few years in the future.

If the coffee table is axed, is there even a plan for the future?

 

[UNCgolf]

At this point I'll settle for anything that's better than the current attraction, and at the very, very least, includes Figment... with an improved personality as well.

I seem to be an outlier on this, but I don't want an Imagination attraction with Figment if it doesn't also include Dreamfinder. I don't think Figment really works without Dreamfinder, and I think Dreamfinder was the reason the original Imagination attraction worked so well. Figment is great but he's more of a side character/mascot than the main focus.

 

[trainplane3]

At this point I'll settle for anything that's better than the current attraction, and at the very, very least, includes Figment... with an improved personality as well.

At this point I'd never say "settle for anything". That's how we get things that are marginally better at best.

We want a show that's better then RoE : State of the art show with terrible looking barges that ruin sightlines
RoL is boring and I'm falling asleep : Insert songs that worsens the flow without correcting the "boring" problem
The Innoventions buildings are past their time and should be replaced : Overpriced, undersized, upcharge table is built
Flights of Wonder needs characters : Add characters but then get 4 revisions of a show that ends up removing a lot of the character interactions by the end of it

Never say "settle for anything", that's how you get a lazy attraction that has no lasting appeal.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Never say "settle for anything", that's how you get a lazy attraction that has no lasting appeal.

Great point. I completely agree with you, I just feel less hopeful they'll ever do anything with the Dreamfinder in the future, based on the fact that management has shown no mercy for Epcot, and what 1982 Epcot stood for. Figment is extremely popular and marketable, we've seen evidence of this through merch sales. The type of sales the execs want to see. They'd be stupid not to include Figment in whatever is to come within the next 7 or so years. If handled properly, the least they can do is to revert Figment back to his original personality in whatever is to come. Just because I'll settle for it doesn't necessarily mean I want for that to happen. I'm practicality desperate for anything 1982/83 Epcot, or rather anything that remains respectful to 1982/83 Epcot at this point.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm not sure who said it, but I believe someone recently said that an exec was pushing for it a few years in the future.

If the coffee table is axed, is there even a plan for the future?

Where's that facade redo of the Hyperion Theater at Disney's California Adventure that was going to come in a later phase? The Cars Land Dine-In Theater? Later phases have a tendency to not happen.

 

[trainplane3]

Great point. I completely agree with you, I just feel less hopeful they'll ever do anything with the Dreamfinder in the future, based on the fact that management has shown no mercy for Epcot, and what 1982 Epcot stood for. Figment is extremely popular and marketable, we've seen evidence of this through merch sales. The type of sales the execs want to see. They'd be stupid not to include Figment in whatever is to come within the next 7 or so years. If handled properly, the least they can do is to revert Figment back to his original personality in whatever is to come. Just because I'll settle for it doesn't necessarily mean I want for that to happen. I'm practicality desperate for anything 1982/83 Epcot, or rather anything that remains respectful to 1982/83 Epcot at this point.

They could've easily gotten Dreamfinder to do the narration for EF but chose not to. There's literally no reason for him not to host the show. That says a lot right there.

I could see them ditching Figment as an attraction and use him strictly as marketing and merch. But then you'll have the future issue of people asking "who's that" and merch sales falling through the floor. Then again, WDW doesn't think about long-term any more. They're strictly short-term, after the hot item of the day.

If there's one thing that could get me to overlook the overhaul in the middle of the park and the oil rigs in WS, it would be a fully budgeted, E-ticket level, hybrid omnimover rebuild for Imagination. It'd show they at least know what their fans want instead of showing off the shiny object of the day, letting the bloggers do 20 videos to cover it, and then forgetting about it by next week. Too bad the people that actually run and are in the parks aren't in charge.

But hey, half billion dollar rollercoaster go whoosh. Something anyone can build. 10/10.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I know I mentioned Inside Out (though I wish I hadn’t)

Since Pete Doctor shot the idea down, do you think management would ever decide to revive this idea, or do you think they’d find some other IP to shoehorn into the pavilion five years down the line? Last I heard, wasn’t the Inside Out proposal completely dead?

 

[UNCgolf]

Since Pete Doctor shot the idea down, do you think management would ever decide to revive this idea, or do you think they’d find some other IP to shoehorn into the pavilion five years down the line? Last I heard, wasn’t the Inside Out proposal completely dead?

I think it's incredibly unlikely they would use Inside Out.

It will be at least 5 years before any kind of new attraction is open at Imagination, and probably much longer than that. That would mean it would be 10+ years since Inside Out was released. I'm not sure it has the kind of long-term popularity/staying power to justify an attraction at that point, although we will see. Regardless, I think they'd be more likely to either use something that's already proven to have that kind of long-term support or something more contemporary to help push merch.

 

[Haymarket2008]

I’m happy to say if we see Bobs folly - aka the Bar on legs - I’ll be surprised.

Regarding what you may be privy to, do you think the direction the central spine/World Celebration is ~currently~ heading towards (Bob’s Folly excluded) is a positive one? Is the announced overhaul better with the exclusion?
I’m talking post-Covid, too.