EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
What we do know is the original release was perfect for its environment in Orlando in the late 80s and early 90s.
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Was EO though?

I too enjoyed it. Especially that adorable fuzzball.

But EO was also Eisner putting EPCOT on the path of destruction. The change of direction from Energy, Communication, exploration to pop stars, toons. EPCOT no longer cross refered with industry, academia, futurism, and the world at large, but with Hollywood, pop culture trends and the wider stable of the Disney entertainment empire.There is a direct link from EO to Let it Go, from Michael Jackson in the Magic Eye to Eric Idle taking over next door a decade later. The replacement of thoughtful contemplation with flash pop culture in FW runs directly from EO to GotG.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
We will never know the truth for that comment.

What we do know is the original release was perfect for its environment in Orlando in the late 80s and early 90s. And that the original experience was a lot better than the bouncy floor tribute re release.
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....upon reflection, do you mean by 'environment' the technical infrastructure of the theater?
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
That’s the problem. It’s a technology demo but they forgot everything else.
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I think that's probably an accurate description.

That just shows how poorly Disney has done over the past couple of decades, though, because I think it's still one of the best rides they've built in Orlando during that time period. Off the top of my head, the only rides that have opened since 2000 that are clearly better are MMRR, RotR, Expedition Everest, and Flight of Passage (and MMRR and RotR are both brand new). 7DMT and Soarin' would probably get the nod from me as well, although I think NRJ is more impressive than Soarin'. NRJ is better than everything else that's opened in the past two decades unless I'm completely forgetting something.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I think that's probably an accurate description.

That just shows how poorly Disney has done over the past couple of decades, though, because I think it's still one of the best rides they've built in Orlando during that time period. Off the top of my head, the only rides that have opened since 2000 that are clearly better are MMRR, RotR, Expedition Everest, and Flight of Passage (and MMRR and RotR are both brand new). 7DMT and Soarin' would probably get the nod from me as well, although I think NRJ is more impressive than Soarin'. NRJ is better than everything else that's opened in the past two decades unless I'm completely forgetting something.
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I keep hoping that over time I'll slowly develop a certain soft spot for Na'vi, but it is not quite there yet. One of its enduring qualities is simply its capacity to underwhelm.

Not that I dislike it. Na'vi gets too much bad press. It's a soothing, calming experience that tickles your inquisitiveness just enough to keep your eyes wandering around from start to finish.

That alone is worth a lot. The slow moving ride through physical environments will forever be the heart of my Disney experience. I'll take Na'vi over any flashy superhero coaster. If, sadly, it's own underwhelming performance and reception are part of the very reason for the replacement of its attraction type.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
I keep hoping that over time I'll slowly develop a certain soft spot for Na'vi, but it is not quite there yet. One of its enduring qualities is simply its capacity to underwhelm.

Not that I dislike it. Na'vi gets too much bad press. It's a soothing, calming experience that tickles your inquisitiveness just enough to keep your eyes wandering around from start to finish.

That alone is worth a lot. The slow moving ride through physical environments will forever be the heart of my Disney experience. I'll take Na'vi over any flashy superhero coaster. If, sadly, it's own underwhelming performance and reception are part of the very reason for the replacement of its attraction type.
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I've said it here before, but I think the wait times for NRJ are a significant factor in its reception. A shorter wait wouldn't eliminate the problems that exist with the ride, but I certainly think it would feel less disappointing. Prior to the shutdown, you either had to get a FastPass (meaning you couldn't get one for Flight of Passage) or wait in line for an hour and a half or longer.

I really enjoy the ride for what it is even acknowledging the flaws, but I've only been on it with a FastPass and thus little to no wait. I don't think I'd want to wait even an hour for it.

On the other hand, Frozen Ever After is a similar ride experience with similar wait times, and people seem to rate it more highly than NRJ. I personally think NRJ is vastly superior to FEA in literally every way. I assume the Frozen IP is a major reason for it, but who knows.

Also, I couldn't agree more about slow moving rides through physical environments. I think physical environments are always more immersive than virtual ones (at least until technology has advanced far beyond what exists today) and other parks will always be far ahead Disney in the thrill ride department -- if thrill rides are what you want, why go to Disney at all? There are so many better options.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I've said it here before, but I think the wait times for NRJ are a significant factor in its reception. A shorter wait wouldn't eliminate the problems that exist with the ride, but I certainly think it would feel less disappointing. Prior to the shutdown, you either had to get a FastPass (meaning you couldn't get one for Flight of Passage) or wait in line for an hour and a half or longer.

I really enjoy the ride for what it is even acknowledging the flaws, but I've only been on it with a FastPass and thus little to no wait. I don't think I'd want to wait even an hour for it.

On the other hand, Frozen Ever After is a similar ride experience with similar wait times, and people seem to rate it more highly than NRJ. I personally think NRJ is vastly superior to FEA in literally every way. I assume the Frozen IP is a major reason for it, but who knows.
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FEA is rubbish, with the exception of a few show scenes. Na'vi is miles better. Quality inversely correlates to their popularity.

That would indicate that ride popularity is indeed dependent on IP popularity. Something which park fans commonly deny. Or at least abhor.

To further add to our woes, the enormous difference in popularity between Na'vi and FoP can not be ascribed to IP - they share one. The conclusion was that screen based > physical sets and thrills > slow moving.

IP based screen centric thrill rides it is then.... :'(
 
E

easyrowrdw

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I've said it here before, but I think the wait times for NRJ are a significant factor in its reception. A shorter wait wouldn't eliminate the problems that exist with the ride, but I certainly think it would feel less disappointing. Prior to the shutdown, you either had to get a FastPass (meaning you couldn't get one for Flight of Passage) or wait in line for an hour and a half or longer.
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If it was the third ride in the land instead of the second I imagine waits would be a lot better. It's carrying too much weight.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
That would indicate that ride popularity is indeed dependent on IP popularity. Something which park fans commonly deny. Or at least abhor.
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I think IP popularity can prop up a mediocre ride, but I don't think IP popularity alone is enough to make a ride a huge success in most cases (Frozen may actually be an outlier in this regard just because it's so popular). Frozen Ever After isn't a good ride, but the AAs alone are enough to make it significantly better than something like Little Mermaid, which is neither good nor popular despite being a very popular IP.
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
I think IP popularity can prop up a mediocre ride, but I don't think IP popularity alone is enough to make a ride a huge success in most cases (Frozen may actually be an outlier in this regard just because it's so popular). Frozen Ever After isn't a good ride, but the AAs alone are enough to make it significantly better than something like Little Mermaid, which is neither good nor popular despite being a very popular IP.
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I know it's subjective and I agree the location is bad, but I don't get how FEA can be described as a bad (or "not good") ride on its own terms. If FEA doesn't reach the standard of even being good, then I don't know how you'd find WDW anything other than a handful of epic e-tickets floating in a sea of bad to mediocre rides.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Sir_Cliff said:
I know it's subjective and I agree the location is bad, but I don't get how FEA can be described as a bad (or "not good") ride on its own terms. If FEA doesn't reach the standard of even being good, then I don't know how you'd find WDW anything other than a handful of epic e-tickets floating in a sea of bad to mediocre rides.
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I don't think it's BAD; I just think it's mediocre and should be significantly better. I was surprised they're basically cloning it all around the world instead of building something that's actually impressive, but that's likely a cost saving measure. It has excellent AAs surrounded by a ton of empty space -- it almost feels like they were halfway done with it and then just stopped and opened it as is. It's better than the Seas with Nemo, the Little Mermaid, the Gran Fiesta Tour, Journey into Your Imagination (I assume -- haven't been on it in well over a decade), and Toy Story Mania, but that's about it off the top of my head (not counting flat rides and spinners). It probably slots in as the 5th best ride at EPCOT because of how meager EPCOT currently is (although it'll be knocked out once Ratatouille opens), but it wouldn't even come close to consideration for the top 5 at any of the other 3.

I honestly don't see how it would be described as good beyond the fact that the AAs are impressive. It's just a handful of barely connected scenes showing some characters and songs from the movie and then it's over. FEA and NRJ are both far too short, but NRJ is lush and full of detail whereas FEA is sparse and full of empty space, thus I like NRJ much more.
 
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