EPCOT Figment, well, to be replaced by Figment

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
IMG_9997-700x488.jpg

Crazy Disney fan is a good name for that person because that's a completely insane tweet, as though Eric Idle had anything to do with the design of the ride. Even if he was the actual designer, it would still be an unhinged tweet from someone who needs to take a step and reconsider their life rather than harassing someone over an attraction, but it's that much more absurd when directed at someone who just appeared in the attraction.

I love his response; it's perfect.
 

Rodj

Well-Known Member
One thing that I don't think was discussed is how the scenes will play out. In the original ride, the scenes were "static", where there was no real "action" with each scene, the scene would repeat itself, and the vehicles constantly moved and slowly transitioned to the next scene.
With JIYI & JIIwF, they changed it to be "dynamic" scenes, where things actually occurred for each scene that wouldn't reset until the next set of vehicles arrived, there were doors that prevented you from seeing the next or previous scene, and the motors were changed to be inverter driven so that the vehicles would either slowly move through a scene or stop completely for a brief moment.
Personally, I would like the new version to still have "dynamic" scenes, in sort of a MMRR fashion where the scenes would change right in front of you.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
The problem is when folks lump ‘all’ fans into that subset when that simply isn’t true. There’s going to be folks who go way too far anywhere on the spectrum of being a fan or being someone in charge. But to lump all of them into that category is stupid… when the majority aren’t.. who ultimately is the one at fault however are the folks in charge that actually have the power to do something because they set an example to follow, and everything trickles down from there.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
One thing that I don't think was discussed is how the scenes will play out. In the original ride, the scenes were "static", where there was no real "action" with each scene, the scene would repeat itself, and the vehicles constantly moved and slowly transitioned to the next scene.
With JIYI & JIIwF, they changed it to be "dynamic" scenes, where things actually occurred for each scene that wouldn't reset until the next set of vehicles arrived, there were doors that prevented you from seeing the next or previous scene, and the motors were changed to be inverter driven so that the vehicles would either slowly move through a scene or stop completely for a brief moment.
Personally, I would like the new version to still have "dynamic" scenes, in sort of a MMRR fashion where the scenes would change right in front of you.
I disagree, the original ride was anything ‘but’ static, ‘that’ ride was dynamic.. The current one is the one that’s actually static, which stops for unreasonable parts of time with barely anything to see except static desks, doors, charts, and office equipment. Nothing constantly moving, changing color, etc. AAs moving, spfx going on, color, projection effects, like the original had etc. We traveled through the realms with constant things going on & happening before. We were constantly stimulated, enlightened, & inspired by what we saw & what could be accomplished, just like Figment was in that original ride, Dreamfinder guiding both Figment & us, the guests, along. Figment taking in & exploring within that environment much in the same way we ourselves were. But in the current one, that doesn’t happen. We’re instead passive watchers, watching chaotic scene after needlessly chaotic scene of Figment proving Channing wrong again & again with hardly anything to see or happening except for one projection or so. Leaving you underwhelmed and with nothing that really sticks other than “what just happened?”. Nothing that actually inspires you to use your creative abilities to their potential or that it does society better like the OG did.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
The ride should go back to the original formula. As I said before, “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”. Light enhancements here & there sure. But the ride as it was, was timeless, eternal even. The subjects it tackles and how overall. You don’t need a “21st century Haunted Mansion”. It works the way it does and has only needed minor tech & spfx enhancements over the course of its run.
Things like implementing stuff that was initially planned but simply downgraded or not implemented due to the lack of available tech & budget at that point in time.
 

Rodj

Well-Known Member
I disagree, the original ride was anything ‘but’ static. The current one is the one that’s static, which stops for unreasonable parts of time with barely anything to see except static desks, doors, charts, and office equipment. Nothing constantly moving, changing color, etc. AAs moving, spfx going on, color, projection effects, like the original had etc. We traveled through the realms with constant things going on & happening before. We were constantly stimulated, enlightened, & inspired by what we saw. But in the current one, that doesn’t happen. It’s just chaotic scene after needlessly chaotic scene of Figment proving Channing wrong with hardly anything to see or happening except for one projection or so.
Static was the word that came to mind, but perhaps what I am thinking about is a different word. What I mean exactly is with the way the scenes play. The original ride is similar to PotC and some other rides, where the scenes aren't tied to the vehicle motion and will constantly play & repeat, even if a breakdown occurs. In JII, the transitions between scenes were a slight bit awkward(like the transition between the horror & theater scene), where you can still both scenes audio at the same time and you can still see it if you look backwards. It makes it seem like the characters are not really "following" the vehicle, compared to the "dynamic" scenes I described where the rider will only hear one scene playing at a time, not having a thought about the ride vehicles after/before them because they are separated.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Static was the word that came to mind, but perhaps what I am thinking about is a different word. What I mean exactly is with the way the scenes play. The original ride is similar to PotC and some other rides, where the scenes aren't tied to the vehicle motion and will constantly play & repeat, even if a breakdown occurs. In JII, the transitions between scenes were a slight bit awkward(like the transition between the horror & theater scene), where you can still both scenes audio at the same time and you can still see it if you look backwards. It makes it seem like the characters are not really "following" the vehicle, compared to the "dynamic" scenes I described where the rider will only hear one scene playing at a time, not having a thought about the ride vehicles after/before them because they are separated.
The argument that can be made is that type of storytelling you describe of “dynamic storytelling” doesn’t work in theme parks most of the time. Marc Davis has made this point quite a number of times. That most of the rides and experiences that work aren’t there to tell a story the same way a film or cartoon does. It’s to immerse and put you into an environment with a encapsulating message, which is exactly what Journey Into Imagination did. I also don’t see how the transition is awkward when the entire ride is going through all the different realms of imagination (darker things exist too), after we thought up all the ideas present in the opening scene/stored into the dreamport and then sorted and let out into the various realms we explore after. It makes perfect sense if you follow the entire ride scene by scene and pay attention to the dialogue and what happens.
 
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FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Even the original Fantasyland rides. Those never told a “dynamic story”. They immersed you into the characters’ worlds and the “greatest hits” of environments, feelings and moods you felt within that story.
 

Rodj

Well-Known Member
The argument that can be made is that type of storytelling you describe of “dynamic storytelling” doesn’t work in theme park most of the time. Marc Davis has made this point quite a number of times. That most of the rides and experiences that work aren’t there to tell a story the same way a film or cartoon does. It’s to immerse and put you into an environment with a encapsulating message, which is exactly what Journey Into Imagination did. I also don’t see how the transition is awkward when the entire ride is going through all the different realms of imagination (darker things exist too), after we thought up all the ideas present in the opening scene/stored into the dreamport and then sorted and let out into the various realms we explore after. It makes perfect sense if you follow the entire ride scene by scene and pay attention to the dialogue and what happens.
I still think we might be talking about different things. Let me give a different example of a ride that does "dynamic" scenes, the Tower of Terror(even though there are some technicalities as to why). The scenes before and after the drop are all tied to the actual position of the ride vehicle and separates the vehicles where you never see any other vehicle during the ride.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
I still think we might be talking about different things. Let me give a different example of a ride that does "dynamic" scenes, the Tower of Terror(even though there are some technicalities as to why). The scenes before and after the drop are all tied to the actual position of the ride vehicle and separates the vehicles where you never see any other vehicle during the ride.
The opening scene on the turntable did this “dynamic storytelling”. The vehicles change position in different parts of the ride. But most of the original scenes have things constantly happening ‘all around you”, if your vehicle turned one way, you’d miss what was going on elsewhere. The current ride only turns in one/a different place to hide the fact they didn’t properly theme the show scenes and utilize the space properly. ‘Big’ difference.
 
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Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
I think we are talking about "continuous" scenes vs. "triggered" scenes, to use other terms.

In the first, you enter a scene that appears to be already happening. Examples would be the initial battle scene and auction scene of Pirates, Under the Sea in Little Mermaid, all of IASW, the finale of Splash (RIP).

In the latter, you enter a scene which kicks it off. Scenes like the entirety of Pooh, most of GMR, ToT's elevator scene, a good portion of Rise.

And then you have some hybrids where triggers are added into a continuous scene and/or the scene is designed to give the impression a character is talking to you directly. The triggered gags in Splash. Scuttle in Little Mermaid. The song portions of FEA (which are somewhere in between actually).

For the original IMAG, the opening scene with Dreamfinder was actually a triggered scene. Then you went into mostly continuous scenes with a few hybrid elements thrown in. The newest version is almost exclusively triggered scenes.

I really miss Disney's use of the continuous scenes, since they are often more immersive and higher reride. You don't see the exact same thing each time. That is based on the story, but they are rarely used these days it seems. We have to be smacked across the head with a simplistic story vs. enter a scene where a story is already underway.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
Not the case.. have you seen Martin’s ultimate tribute video of the attraction? Line for the popcorn buckets was almost the same as the original ride yet the ride had the capacity to handle things. Otherwise, Figment is more than just a purple dragon.. if it were simply that he were a purple dragon, then how come the current ride hardly gets any ridership daily?… I thought the fact that he was a purple dragon is what made him popular… oh wait.. yeah, that’s what I thought.. a fundamental misunderstanding on WDI’s part. The true reason why Figment sells is due to his philosophy and his original curious, wide eyed child full of optimism, purity & wonder characterization. Yes he’s cute & appealing from a design perspective, but he’s more than that.
OMG I love your enthusiasm. I'm just saying is "purple dragon" is all that's needed to be popular. I'm not saying there's nothing more to the character. Agree!
 

Movielover

Well-Known Member
most of GMR, ToT's elevator scene, a good portion of Rise.
Excellent breakdown of the 2 types of scenes. I will say I think these 3 ride's use of trigger scenes is appropriate since we as the riders are the protagonist of the ride. The story revolves around us as the rides advancing the story. Its a good example of knowing and using the right ride type/ scene type for each attraction.
 

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
Excellent breakdown of the 2 types of scenes. I will say I think these 3 ride's use of trigger scenes is appropriate since we as the riders are the protagonist of the ride. The story revolves around us as the rides advancing the story. Its a good example of knowing and using the right ride type/ scene type for each attraction.

I agree. I actually think that points out another aspect. I wish they would go back to the blend of "observer" and "protagonist" rides. I get that everyone "loves to be the center of the action", but that's not entirely true. With the exception of Navi, there haven't been any "observer" rides in recent history I can think of. Instead, you are always either the protagonist or riding along with the protagonist. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. But, it actually makes it more difficult story wise. There is a clear story - just one. And, once you've seen it a couple of times, you've seen it. So, it creates a huge excitement spike on the initial rides, but you are less inclined to look for all the details - to figure out the story (since it's just handed to you).

In many cases, that's totally great (and arguably the right thing to do). And, you can always just rely on the thrill of the ride or character familiarity. You can also rely on cool technology, but that wanes more quickly.

Like the IP integration, it can become too much when there isn't any type of balance. Story can be discovered - it doesn't have to be "told".
 

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