Fastpass return time

[Phonedave]

I'm by no means trying to belittle your point, but how do you know that all or part of those 75 people were late?

The issue you described are CM failures, not Fastpass system failures.

A CM should proactively recognize that the stand by line is past a 20 minute marker, regardless of the last time a card went down.

While I definitely advocate for the FP line moving as quickly as possible, the CM at the merge point should show better judgement than letting 75 people in before accessing the stand by line.

The point is, that even though they let 75 FP people in in one shot, that is what they NEEDED to do. When they cut off the FP flow, there was still a long line of FP people waiting. The FP line continued to back up. They were letting roughly 2 FP people in for every Standby person just to try and prevent the FP line from getting any longer.

More to the point, this was at night, when there is a greater chance of people being outside of their FP window.

Either too many FP's were given out for that time frame, or there were extra FP people comming in who did not belong.

You go on enough attractions and you begin to know what the 'normal' amount of people in the FP line should be - as I am sure you know too. When all of a sudden the FP line starts building like crazy, then you know something is up.

-dave

 

[fosse76]

The point is, that even though they let 75 FP people in in one shot, that is what they NEEDED to do. When they cut off the FP flow, there was still a long line of FP people waiting. The FP line continued to back up. They were letting roughly 2 FP people in for every Standby person just to try and prevent the FP line from getting any longer.

More to the point, this was at night, when there is a greater chance of people being outside of their FP window.

Either too many FP's were given out for that time frame, or there were extra FP people comming in who did not belong.

You go on enough attractions and you begin to know what the 'normal' amount of people in the FP line should be - as I am sure you know too. When all of a sudden the FP line starts building like crazy, then you know something is up.

-dave

This is exactly right. I think the best example is TSMM. Most of the time I've been on it, the FP line isn't more than a few feet before the merge point. But there have been a few times I've seen it completely backed up, and the stand-by dragging to a halt. Either too many FPs are being issued or too many people are ignoring their return time window.

 

[Thunder Kz]

Wow, after all the threads I’ve read chastising others for using resort mugs on subsequent trips, using wheelchairs inappropriately, I am shocked at all of the people who think it is acceptable to cheat the fast pass window. This thread has changed my opinion about fast passes. I think they should be taken away.

Completely agree. I've heard about guests checking their brains at the front gate...but their honor too? No free passes for anyone!!

 

[draybook]

Honor, really?

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Honor, really?

That's what I've been trying to hone in on in this thread. Some people are using heavily morally-tinted language on an issue that (to me) completely lacks a moral dimension.

 

[TRONorail10]

People, the bottom line is this - FastPass tickets were created as a benefit to the guests to avoid extended wait periods on certain attractions. The time printed on your FastPass is a lot more important than you think. It is there to allocate tickets appropriately, in order to ensure FastPass lines don't get backed up with 200-300 people at a time. Cast members make exceptions to the rules in order to accomodate you. They DO NOT have to accept a FastPass ticket after the allotted time, but most of them will in order to provide good guest service. Please do not abuse this privilege with every FastPass ticket you get. Keep in mind, that one of those times you chose to arrive late, along with a couple hundred other people - just caused a family waiting in the standbye line (who is on their first visit to disney world) to miss dinner reservations with cinderella because their 25 minute wait turned into over an hour wait.

 

[Thunder Kz]

Honor, really?

Ya, being a little sarcastic. But, the point is that the rules exist for a reason, as stated by all the others.

 

[fosse76]

People, the bottom line is this - FastPass tickets were created as a benefit to the guests to avoid extended wait periods on certain attractions.

actually, that is the secondary reason. The primary reason is that Disney realized that guests who are standing in line can't spend money, and the longer the lines the less money they will spend. After all, it only positive affects FP holders. Guests in the standby may or may not actually be benefitting at all.

The time printed on your FastPass is a lot more important than you think. It is there to allocate tickets appropriately, in order to ensure FastPass lines don't get backed up with 200-300 people at a time.

This is true. FP is a crowd re-distribution tool. In theory, the people obtaining a FP would have gotten in line at that moment instead of getting the FP. Now they are relegated to a time later in the day (taking the spots of people who got FP during that hour who will in turn go later, and so on). An attraction's allotment is proportional to its hourly capacity, so in theory the allotment shouldn't technically affect the standby line (i.e., if FP didn't exist then theoretically the wait time will be the same).

The problem is that theories rarely ever come out 100%. If 40% of a ride's capacity is pushed to a later time, the line looks shorter, so guests who might have by-passed the attraction will get in line, increasing the wait time. Or, more commonly, guests grab a FP and get in line for another attraction, increasing that attraction's wait time than what it would normally have been. So when people are returning past the return window, it has the potential to seriously affect the standby line.

Personally, I think that too many attractions are using FP, which is what is causing some of the current problems. This results in people "waiting" in two lines at once (i.e., FP holders standing in line for attractions they aren't holding a FP for). In some cases, I'm convinced that the FP line increases the wait of attractions that guests most likely would have bypassed, so there is no real re-distribution occuring in those cases (like Peter Pan...though it would still be popular, most guests would walk by if they saw the wait was over an hour and there was no FP to exlplain that long of a wait).

Cast members make exceptions to the rules in order to accomodate you. They DO NOT have to accept a FastPass ticket after the allotted time, but most of them will in order to provide good guest service.

Is that true? Based on other comments in this thread, CMs do have to accept the FPs after the allotted time (on the same day, of course). I assume the times that they don't accept them they've been instructed by management not to accept them.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Cast members make exceptions to the rules in order to accomodate you. They DO NOT have to accept a FastPass ticket after the allotted time, but most of them will in order to provide good guest service.

Unless things have changed since I was trained, I don't believe this is true. Based on my experience, a CM who refuses a FP after its window is exceeding his/her authority.

 

[lebeau]

Unless things have changed since I was trained, I don't believe this is true. Based on my experience, a CM who refuses a FP after its window is exceeding his/her authority.

This year, my brother asked CM in DL while I asked CM in WDW. We got the same answer on both coasts. Every CM we asked said that FPs do not expire on the day you get them. We were encouraged to use them past the end of our return window.

These "rules" you people are so concerned about are self-imposed.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

These "rules" you people are so concerned about are self-imposed.

It's easy to see why people would think the time window is a rule, since Disney goes to the trouble of printing it on the ticket, so I don't hold that against them.

I just think folks aren't aware of how completely meaningless it is in the day-to-day operations. There seems to be an idea that CMs are being gracious or sort of gritting their teeth when they let someone in "late." They aren't. They're doing their job.

And since I've been such a loud voice in this thread: For the record, I'm generally too excited to get on the ride I've been waiting for to wait until after the window. And I suspect most people are that way.

I've used a "late" FP exactly once that I can remember. I was meeting a friend later in the day who was arriving an hour before my DL trip ended. The only way we'd be able to ride something worthwhile in that time would be with two FP's that were active as soon as she got there. The only way to do that was to have one of them be outside its window. Thus we rode ToT without a second glance from the bellhop.

I do sympathize with the arguments that it increases the standby wait, but it really is all a numbers game. If standby Bobby from Arkansas has to wait an extra 5 seconds because I arrive outside my window, then Standby Susie from Nebraska got on 5 seconds earlier during my window. My standby karma is thus neutral.

 

[lebeau]

It's easy to see why people would think the time window is a rule, since Disney goes to the trouble of printing it on the ticket, so I don't hold that against them.

I just think folks aren't aware of how completely meaningless it is in the day-to-day operations. There seems to be an idea that CMs are being gracious or sort of gritting their teeth when they let someone in "late." They aren't. They're doing their job.

I don't blame anyone for thinking that the window is a rule either. The FP leads you to believe it is. I believed it for a time.

The reason my brother and I started out bi-coastal quiz of FP castmembers was that he was not aware you could use "late" FPs. I told him you could, but it wasn't encouraged. So, he asked while he was in DL. He said he was in fact encouraged to use late FPs.

This took me by surprise. So when I was at WDW, I started asking there. Same experience. The cast members I talked to were very clear that FPs did not expire.

Ironically, I rarely use FP. Since I'm touring with little ones, we don't visit a lot of attractions that require FP. We used a grand total of 1 FP on our last trip. And we were on time.

 

[draybook]

People, the bottom line is this - FastPass tickets were created as a benefit to the guests to avoid extended wait periods on certain attractions. The time printed on your FastPass is a lot more important than you think. It is there to allocate tickets appropriately, in order to ensure FastPass lines don't get backed up with 200-300 people at a time. Cast members make exceptions to the rules in order to accomodate you. They DO NOT have to accept a FastPass ticket after the allotted time, but most of them will in order to provide good guest service. Please do not abuse this privilege with every FastPass ticket you get. Keep in mind, that one of those times you chose to arrive late, along with a couple hundred other people - just caused a family waiting in the standbye line (who is on their first visit to disney world) to miss dinner reservations with cinderella because their 25 minute wait turned into over an hour wait.

I would LOVE to see video or written proof that this has ever happened. The idea that 200 people showed up at once or even within a 5 minute period to one attraction is mind boggling. And if that family was cutting it close enough that anything past 25 minutes would put them in risk of missing their reservation then part of the blame belongs to them. We don't do any rides within 30 minutes of our reservations to ensure that we're on time(or actually 15 minutes early as per what Disney says to be).

That said, until Disney actually comes across and says that it's a hard rule to be in that 1 hour window I will continue to hoard FP's and use them at our discretion.

 

[BrerFrog]

I was also told during my trainning that FPs that are presented after their window are valid.

So I honestly don't see why "breaking the rules" has come into discussion, since the rule that is supposedly being broken does not even exist. If Disney says it is ok, then it is ok.

 

[TinkerBelle8878]

The idea of it being rule breaking or not aside, they should get rid of it all together for TSM. Its not being used appropriately there and the standby line is at least 80 minutes.

Or for that one ride the window should be strictly enforced. Its a ride that usually isn't affected by weather and only if there is a malfunction/downtime of the ride should the window be extended.

If you think you might have ADRs at the time window, don't get the fast pass.

Its a plain and simple thing. FastPass at TSM is a failure. Its not shortening anything. People hording and riding back to back way after their window is over is causing the 80 mintue wait.

I also still don't get why for an Omnimover, Pan is so long of a wait. Even before fastpass.

 

[stormtracker]

An interesting read if you haven't already read it -

http://www.oinc.net/disney/latefastpassesdontmatter.php

 

[BigThunderMatt]

the CM at the merge point should show better judgement than letting 75 people in before accessing the stand by line.

Depending on the backup at Fastpass potentially caused by an influx of both many people returning at the very minute their FastPass becomes valid as well as people who have been hoarding them all day (a likely scenario), clearing FastPass becomes a top priority to guarantee the wait in that queue is no longer than 15 minutes.

When I worked a FastPass attraction a few years ago, I was specifically instructed at times to let in as many as 90 FP for every 10 standby, by management, when our FP line was severely backed up.

 

[GenerationX]

Clearly, the Disney company does not care if guests arrive after the time window stated on the ticket. They want to make sure guests have plenty of time to eat and buy souvenirs before returning to the attraction. However, they also don't want 5,000 people showing up at 9:55pm at TSM with FPs in hand. The End Time on the ticket keeps the guests that are smart enough to understand and use the FP system (while not obsessive enough to know that the End Time is more of a guideline) returning during their window. Guests who accidentally return late are happy their FPs are accepted, freaks like us who know the ins and outs of the system are happy to have more flexibility in planning, and nitwits who are clueless about the FP system remain in their blissfully ignorant state. Everyone wins.

 

[draybook]

The idea of it being rule breaking or not aside, they should get rid of it all together for TSM. Its not being used appropriately there and the standby line is at least 80 minutes.

Or for that one ride the window should be strictly enforced. Its a ride that usually isn't affected by weather and only if there is a malfunction/downtime of the ride should the window be extended.

If you think you might have ADRs at the time window, don't get the fast pass.

Its a plain and simple thing. FastPass at TSM is a failure. Its not shortening anything. People hording and riding back to back way after their window is over is causing the 80 mintue wait.

I also still don't get why for an Omnimover, Pan is so long of a wait. Even before fastpass.

Really? Because we don't go for our back to back rides until around 7 or 8pm and the standby line has been 60+ minutes since 10am. How am I contributing to the wait time again?

 

[LucyintheSky]

The idea of it being rule breaking or not aside, they should get rid of it all together for TSM. Its not being used appropriately there and the standby line is at least 80 minutes.

Or for that one ride the window should be strictly enforced. Its a ride that usually isn't affected by weather and only if there is a malfunction/downtime of the ride should the window be extended.

If you think you might have ADRs at the time window, don't get the fast pass.

Its a plain and simple thing. FastPass at TSM is a failure. Its not shortening anything. People hording and riding back to back way after their window is over is causing the 80 mintue wait.

I also still don't get why for an Omnimover, Pan is so long of a wait. Even before fastpass.

OT here, but I don't think Pan is technically an omnimover. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I used to work at Pan, and even though it's continually moving, the boats are much farther apart than something like Buzz or HM. And it moves MUCH slower. So instead of pretty much just letting a steady stream of people board, we would have to stop each group and wait til a boat got there before letting them on the moving walkway.