Fastpass return time

[durangojim]

It is the same.

They are not going to hold your table open for you, they will seat the next party. When you show up they will shoehorn you into the queue just like they do with the FP.

Some family will end up getting called earlier for their reservation, and some family will be called later that they would have - just like with the FP.

The FP difference in times may only be a minute, while the dining times may be more on the order of 10 or 15, but it is still the same effect.

Notice I am not saying showing up late is wrong or right - I am just saying it is the same for dining as it is for FP. If you have a problem with one, then you need to think about why you don't have a problem with the other.

For the record, I try to be on time for both FP and ADRs, but I have at times been late to both. I apologized to the CM, but I still got in line.

-dave

I'm curious because you seem like a "everything is black and white" kind of guy (I could be wrong), but if you have a doctor's appointment at 10:00, will you still go even if you know you might not get there until 5 or 10 after, or do you call and cancel and make an appointment for another day?

 

[Thumbelina]

I usually return on time but i have been late.
The only time someone wouldn't take my fp was when my friend and I had fp to
Thunder Mountain and we were a few mins early.

So I guess to be late is okay but to be early its not?
Someone most be taking tips from the white rabbit. lol

 

[draybook]

I did notice that you said you make an effort to make your ADR's - that was the reason for the sarcasm. You seem to make an effort to be on time to one scheduled appointment, but openly ignore an other.

Again, so the question is

Why is it wrong to show up late for your ADR's but it's OK to show up late for your FP.

One or the other. Either being on time is the right thing to do, or it's not. Make your choice.

It's that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why.

-dave

I didn't say we make an effort for our ADR's, we make them, with the exception of the first one which was due to a mix up with the confirmation sheets I had. Other than that we're always 20-25 minutes ahead of our reservation. ANd as far as FP's go, on our first trip we were on time for our FP's. It wasn't until last year that I found out that they allow you to come later than what is on the ticket. Are you illiterate or have you just chosen not to read the posts here that explain that 1) Disney doesn't consider it a window and 2) CM's are told that they don't expire.

And believe me, I'm a very honorable person, but thanks for judging me anyways, Jesus. Care to turn any water into wine for us while you're here?

However, if anyone wants to provide material or any source in which Disney says it is a hard window, then I'd be glad to adhere to that hour.

 

[wm49rs]

If the FPs don't expire (on that day), then the return time shouldn't really be an issue, imo. The rides are constant, with ongoing placement of people in them on a moving basis. Should I return a little late for my assigned FP line, the people whom I'm placed in front of don't know (or probably even care) what time my FP was for. Same for the CMs. They're simply placing another person in an ongoing queue.....

Now, with an ADR, since the resource (i.e. the number of tables) is limited, and I committed to being there at a set time and date, then yes, not arriving on time could be rude. But let's also remember the ADR simply guarantees a party the "next available" table for their size. So, while being on time is courteous, is doesn't guarantee a party won't have a wait. But, that is what I agreed to when making the ADR.....

 

[Wilt Dasney]

The FP difference in times may only be a minute, while the dining times may be more on the order of 10 or 15, but it is still the same effect.

Notice I am not saying showing up late is wrong or right - I am just saying it is the same for dining as it is for FP. If you have a problem with one, then you need to think about why you don't have a problem with the other.

Fair enough. To me, the difference in magnitude is the difference.

I appreciate the argument that both actions have the same effect, but it strikes me a bit like saying that having to stop for a school bus letting kids off and getting caught in a freeway traffic jam are the same.

They might be the same in the sense that both cause you to get to work later than you otherwise would have (maybe 30 seconds later in the first case, maybe 30 minutes later in the second case), but you're not going to judge the inconvenience to your life equally between them.

 

[Phonedave]

I didn't say we make an effort for our ADR's, we make them, with the exception of the first one which was due to a mix up with the confirmation sheets I had. Other than that we're always 20-25 minutes ahead of our reservation. ANd as far as FP's go, on our first trip we were on time for our FP's. It wasn't until last year that I found out that they allow you to come later than what is on the ticket. Are you illiterate or have you just chosen not to read the posts here that explain that 1) Disney doesn't consider it a window and 2) CM's are told that they don't expire.

And believe me, I'm a very honorable person, but thanks for judging me anyways, Jesus. Care to turn any water into wine for us while you're here?

However, if anyone wants to provide material or any source in which Disney says it is a hard window, then I'd be glad to adhere to that hour.

No need for snide comments about my ability to read and/or understand. It appears you do not wish to debate, but instead make rude comments. So I will try this one more time. Please read through this post and realize it's not an attack. I am trying to understand the logic of your thinking.



1) I never disagreed with you about the FP ticket not being a hard window. I know it's not a hard window.

2) I never said I was better (or worse) than you. Nor did I compare myself to Jesus (or any other religious figure, who are quite frankly people I have no aspirations to emulate). In fact, if you go back and re-read what I wrote, you will see that I have admitted to doing just what you are doing, arriving outside the time windows for various appointments.

3) Again, I never said you were honorable or dishonorable; you brought those labels out first and said you did the honorable thing. I merely asked for you to define how you are being consistent in your actions.

Now, for one more time, I will walk thorough my argument.

1 - The FP is not a hard arrival time - we both agree on that (I hope)

2 - Because the FP is not a hard arrival time, you have no problem coming back at what ever time suits your schedule. - Can you agree to that? I am not saying you are good, bad, right, wrong, moral, just, or any other thing. I am simply saying that because it can be done, you do so.

3 - You make an effort (and it seems like a very strong effort) to arrive early for your ADR's. - Do you agree with that point?

4 - I am telling you that ADR's are much like FP's. You can arrive late. I have done so a number of times. Mostly only 10 minutes or so, but I have been up to 45 minutes late and still been seated. The ADR is not a hard arrival time. If you arrive late and say you got caught on a ride, the CM will try to squeeze you in.

Now, assuming that you believe me about point 4, my question is; "Do you still feel the same way about ADRs?". Given that an ADR is a flexible window (granted, not quite as flexible as an FP - no showing up at 6:00 PM for a 11:30 lunch reservation) do you still feel that you should make an effort to be there early? Why or why not?

That's the question I have been trying to get answered for three or four posts now. No judgment on if what you are doing is 'right' or 'wrong' - really, it does not make a difference to me. If you go back an look at my history of posts on topics such as this (lying about age, reusing mugs, etc) I think I am pretty consistent in my views. I don't pass judgment on what people do - I do some of it myself. But if you are going to do it, own up to it and admit to what you are doing. You do that with the FP issue - and I applaud you for it. I am trying to understand why you treat ADR times differently.

-dave

EDIT: I apologize. I went back and re-read my post

It's that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why

is a typo

It should have read


It's not that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why

Does that clarify my question?

Thanks

 

[Phonedave]

If the FPs don't expire (on that day), then the return time shouldn't really be an issue, imo. The rides are constant, with ongoing placement of people in them on a moving basis. Should I return a little late for my assigned FP line, the people whom I'm placed in front of don't know (or probably even care) what time my FP was for. Same for the CMs. They're simply placing another person in an ongoing queue.....

Now, with an ADR, since the resource (i.e. the number of tables) is limited, and I committed to being there at a set time and date, then yes, not arriving on time could be rude. But let's also remember the ADR simply guarantees a party the "next available" table for their size. So, while being on time is courteous, is doesn't guarantee a party won't have a wait. But, that is what I agreed to when making the ADR.....

Actualy dinner is very much like a ride.

A restaruant has a throughput, just like an attraction. An attaction has a limited number of seats, just like a restaruant.

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

Fair enough. To me, the difference in magnitude is the difference.

I appreciate the argument that both actions have the same effect, but it strikes me a bit like saying that having to stop for a school bus letting kids off and getting caught in a freeway traffic jam are the same.

They might be the same in the sense that both cause you to get to work later than you otherwise would have (maybe 30 seconds later in the first case, maybe 30 minutes later in the second case), but you're not going to judge the inconvenience to your life equally between them.

I will admit that there is a large difference in magnitude. But you also have to look at that from the impacted person. I will be that if your boss told you if you were late for work one more time you would loose your job, and you got caught behind a school bus in your way in for 30 seconds, that would mean a lot more to you than if you were on your way to a BBQ and got stuck in traffic for 30 minutes.

Some people don't care about sit down dining - they don't use it. To those people, being delayed in an attraction line means a lot more than the mess that ADRs are right now.

You are right, for most people the dining is a bigger issue, but MOST people is not ALL people. I am one of those people. If I show up when I am supposed to for my ADR and have to wait 45 minutes, you can be sure that impacts me more than if I get on a standby line that says 30 minutes and I wait 45, but I am sure there are people out there for who waiting extra in a standby line just kills their vacation.

I am just trying to show all sides of the issue here. Again, as I expained to Draybrook, I am not judging anyone, or even judging the act. I am just trying to have a logical open debate about it.

Thanks

-dave

 

[wm49rs]

Actualy dinner is very much like a ride.

A restaruant has a throughput, just like an attraction. An attaction has a limited number of seats, just like a restaruant.

-dave

I think it's fair to say the seats at a dinner are occupied a good deal longer than the average ride requiring a FP. And the seats for those rides are in constant turnover, unlike those at a restaurant where the availability is somewhat more random.....

 

[Wilt Dasney]

You are right, for most people the dining is a bigger issue, but MOST people is not ALL people. I am one of those people. If I show up when I am supposed to for my ADR and have to wait 45 minutes, you can be sure that impacts me more than if I get on a standby line that says 30 minutes and I wait 45, but I am sure there are people out there for who waiting extra in a standby line just kills their vacation.

I am just trying to show all sides of the issue here. Again, as I expained to Draybrook, I am not judging anyone, or even judging the act. I am just trying to have a logical open debate about it.

Thanks

-dave

No worries. I've seen enough of your posts to give you the benefit of the doubt.

We seem to at least agree that the chances of your causing a serious inconvenience to your fellow guest are higher (I would think much higher) when you show up late for an ADR than if you return a FastPass "late."

Based on that, I think it's sound to treat the ADR as more important than the FP — although as you've noted, we can never know for sure how we might be impacting someone else in the context of what any extra wait means for them personally.

 

[Phonedave]

I think it's fair to say the seats at a dinner are occupied a good deal longer than the average ride requiring a FP. And the seats for those rides are in constant turnover, unlike those at a restaurant where the availability is somewhat more random.....

The lenght of time the table is occupied only has to do with throughput. Once the ride or restaruant is full and operating at capacity, then it is a steady state and the wait time per person is basicly fixed.

Restaruant seating IS more random, but suprisingly not that much more. Restaurant margins can be quite thin. They know pretty accurately how long the average party will take and they work to move people who are lingering out the door.

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

No worries. I've seen enough of your posts to give you the benefit of the doubt.

We seem to at least agree that the chances of your causing a serious inconvenience to your fellow guest are higher (I would think much higher) when you show up late for an ADR than if you return a FastPass "late."

Based on that, I think it's sound to treat the ADR as more important than the FP — although as you've noted, we can never know for sure how we might be impacting someone else in the context of what any extra wait means for them personally.

Thanks for the no worries comment.

Now on to the fun. ...

I agree with your statements. Even to the point that arriving late for an ADR is a much higher inconvenience than arriving late with a FP. However, we have established that WDW lets you do both. While there may not be as blatant a statement about ADRs and there is for FPs, there is a policy, if not written, at least tacitly implied, that if you arrive late for an ADR (within reason - and what is resonable seems up for grabs) you will be accomidated.

So, if is OK to do either in the eyes of "Disney law" then why are people OK with one, but not the other? Why is arriving late with a FP OK and arriving late for a ADR not OK?

Is it because one inconveniences people more? I suspect that is the reason. But then who decides where that line is? What about holding a spot in line for people? The general consensus seems to be that if you have a kid that has to go to the bathroom, holding their spot is OK. But holding a spot for 5 people to go shopping is not. How about holding a spot for one person to go shopping. No more inconvenient than holding a spot for a single kid going to the bathroom, but people tend to view them differently

-dave

 

[wm49rs]

The lenght of time the table is occupied only has to do with throughput. Once the ride or restaruant is full and operating at capacity, then it is a steady state and the wait time per person is basicly fixed.

Restaruant seating IS more random, but suprisingly not that much more. Restaurant margins can be quite thin. They know pretty accurately how long the average party will take and they work to move people who are lingering out the door.

-dave

Well, I respect your adherence to sticking within the FP return times, I do. But I'm still seeing this as an apples and oranges comparison. The rides which the FPs are designed are (for the most part) continuously cycling hundreds of people through them on the hour. The people returning with FPs, late or not, are simply going to be inserted into the queue by CMs wherever they can fit them, which also accounts for the FPs queues even having delays sometimes....

But I do agree with you on return times for ADRs, simply because there is a well-known (and probably stated, I've just never seen the official policy) of the reservation only being held for 15 minutes. But then again, you're looking at a finite number of tables being awaited by others, and a dining time that will obviously vary....

 

[worldfanatic]

I am stunned at how long this thread has gone on.

It was interesting at first, but my God, come on....................:brick:

A couple of you are normally strong contributors to this site.
Why in the hell are you continuing with this pathetic (and boring) arguement about FP return times and the moral implications involved.

Normally I just past by lame threads, but this is ridiculous!

Move along.......................

 

[draybook]

I will admit that there is a large difference in magnitude. But you also have to look at that from the impacted person. I will be that if your boss told you if you were late for work one more time you would loose your job, and you got caught behind a school bus in your way in for 30 seconds, that would mean a lot more to you than if you were on your way to a BBQ and got stuck in traffic for 30 minutes.

Some people don't care about sit down dining - they don't use it. To those people, being delayed in an attraction line means a lot more than the mess that ADRs are right now.

You are right, for most people the dining is a bigger issue, but MOST people is not ALL people. I am one of those people. If I show up when I am supposed to for my ADR and have to wait 45 minutes, you can be sure that impacts me more than if I get on a standby line that says 30 minutes and I wait 45, but I am sure there are people out there for who waiting extra in a standby line just kills their vacation.

I am just trying to show all sides of the issue here. Again, as I expained to Draybrook, I am not judging anyone, or even judging the act. I am just trying to have a logical open debate about it.

Thanks

-dave

It's that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why.

-dave





Really?

 

[Phonedave]

It's that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why.

-dave





Really?

Yeah, really - read my next post to you, at the very bottom.


-dave

It's that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why

is a typo

It should have read


It's not that you have no honor or morals, it's that you do not have consistent honor or morals, and I am intrigued as to why

Does that clarify my question?

Thanks

 

[Phonedave]

I am stunned at how long this thread has gone on.

It was interesting at first, but my God, come on....................:brick:

A couple of you are normally strong contributors to this site.
Why in the hell are you continuing with this pathetic (and boring) arguement about FP return times and the moral implications involved.

Normally I just past by lame threads, but this is ridiculous!

Move along.......................

Why? Because I find it interesting and amusing.

Maybe I should start a thread about why threads like this bother people. Now THAT would get some discussion going.

Honestly, the whole reason I am still in this thread is because the people that are involved are strong contributors. The make well thought out responses, not moronic name calling.

Even Draybook is a "quality poster"" - at least in my eyes. We seem to have come to odds because of a typo (on my part) and now that I have seen the typo, I can understand his general attitude in this thread - but historically his posts are good posts as well. If this thread was full of inane back and forth, I would have left it a long time ago.

-dave


-dave

 

[Kamikaze]

The FP return time is a guideline which the CMs should observe, but rarely do. If you get turned away for arriving outside your return time - don't be surprised

The only time they turn down valid fastpasses is if there is another issue.

 

[wm49rs]

I am stunned at how long this thread has gone on.

It was interesting at first, but my God, come on....................:brick:

A couple of you are normally strong contributors to this site.
Why in the hell are you continuing with this pathetic (and boring) arguement about FP return times and the moral implications involved.

Normally I just past by lame threads, but this is ridiculous!

Move along.......................

Why? Because I find it interesting and amusing.

Maybe I should start a thread about why threads like this bother people. Now THAT would get some discussion going.

Honestly, the whole reason I am still in this thread is because the people that are involved are strong contributors. The make well thought out responses, not moronic name calling.

Even Draybook is a "quality poster"" - at least in my eyes. We seem to have come to odds because of a typo (on my part) and now that I have seen the typo, I can understand his general attitude in this thread - but historically his posts are good posts as well. If this thread was full of inane back and forth, I would have left it a long time ago.

-dave

All we've done with this discussion is display that reasonable people can disagree reasonably, which unfortunately is a far cry from the usual SOP in some of these threads. No animosity, no hurt feelings, just an honest discussion.....

And in the same vein, if you normally ignore these threads......

 

[draybook]

Why? Because I find it interesting and amusing.

Maybe I should start a thread about why threads like this bother people. Now THAT would get some discussion going.

Honestly, the whole reason I am still in this thread is because the people that are involved are strong contributors. The make well thought out responses, not moronic name calling.

Even Draybook is a "quality poster"" - at least in my eyes. We seem to have come to odds because of a typo (on my part) and now that I have seen the typo, I can understand his general attitude in this thread - but historically his posts are good posts as well. If this thread was full of inane back and forth, I would have left it a long time ago.

-dave


-dave

Agreed, and there's nothing wrong with folks not agreeing. The world would be a pretty boring place if 6 billion people all liked the same things.