Fastpass return time

Figment632

New Member
Well, now you're just being silly. If you don't enforce the first part of the return window, you may as well dismantle FP. (I know you weren't really asking.)

Plus, who's going to complain about not being admitted early? (Well, a few people. There's always someone who will complain about anything. I've seen people complain about free money before.)

Enforcing the return time is critical. Enforcing the expiration time is not. And in fact it would cause more problems than it solves.

Do you seriously believe that the handful of people using expired FPs is really causing 30 minute waits in the FP line? I find this exceptionally hard to swallow. Most people here don't seem to be aware that it is an option. And of those who know, most claim they don't (or rarely ever) do so. The numbers can't be significant.

Again, if they were Disney would take action. The fact that they don't tells you that the current policy is in their best interests.

(Unless of course you think you understand the mechanics of park management better than Disney.) :rolleyes:

There is no reason for someone to show up 2 hours late, give people a 2 hour window and cut them off. And I do know for a fact that people showing up late is a problem and for a fact that it causes the line to back up.

I love FP they just need to make this one change imo.
 

Figment632

New Member
What? No it doesn't.

It happens because the FP to Standby ratio isn't being managed properly at the merge point.

That and ride breakdowns but lets say 100 people show up at a time when they are not supposed to and when you do. That is 100 extra people showing up and making your wait longer.
 

love disney

Active Member
You are cheating the system If Disney would enforce the rules FP would never have problems.

No, you are not cheating the system if the system is designed only to give a "return after time X," which, like it or not, is how the system has been designed. All CMs will tell you that you can return any time after your initial return time, that fastpasses are good for the rest of the day. Therefore, if you use your fastpass late you are not cheating the system as it was designed and as it stands now.

Personally, I always try my best to use my fastpasses within the window of time printed on the ticket, and personally I see nothing wrong with the system as it is implemented now. If they decided to change it and enforce the time window, rather than having a soft policy of "well, if you are up to two hours afterward it is okay," they should just make the window longer. If they did that and made it clear that that was the policy I would be fine with it. Ideas of getting rid of fastpasses or making them only available to resort guests (which I always am while at WDW) or even making people pay for it are not ones that I would support or be happy about. I don't see it as a problem the way it is now, so why not just leave it alone. Just my humble opinion.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
That and ride breakdowns but lets say 100 people show up at a time when they are not supposed to and when you do. That is 100 extra people showing up and making your wait longer.
Not if the merge point is being managed properly.

Out of curiosity, have you ever worked a Fastpass attraction?
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
Just so we're clear: There is no "rule" to be enforced. With the exceptions of specific attractions (I believe Soarin' is one), CMs are specifically trained to let guests in anytime after their FastPass becomes valid. It's not gaming the system; it's playing by the rules Disney themselves have established (and of course, could change at anytime).

I absolutely don't see it as being the same as making multiple dinner reservations. That involves some level of deception (or at the very least, hoping you don't get caught). It's not the way the system is designed to be used.

In this case, there's nothing to get "caught" doing. People who return late are using the system exactly as designed.
 

Figment632

New Member
Just so we're clear: There is no "rule" to be enforced. With the exceptions of specific attractions (I believe Soarin' is one), CMs are specifically trained to let guests in anytime after their FastPass becomes valid. It's not gaming the system; it's playing by the rules Disney themselves have established (and of course, could change at anytime).

I absolutely don't see it as being the same as making multiple dinner reservations. That involves some level of deception (or at the very least, hoping you don't get caught). It's not the way the system is designed to be used.

In this case, there's nothing to get "caught" doing. People who return late are using the system exactly as designed.

IMO if this is true it is a flaw of the system.
 

bladerunner

Member
I go to WDW quite a bit especially in the past five years that I've had an AP and I have never had to wait more than perhaps 5 minutes at any FP line at any park.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
No but I know people who have.

Won't this increase the stand by wait?
Take it from someone who has worked on a Fastpass attraction. You are wrong.

First, there aren't throngs of people bombarding Fastpass line with expired passes at the same time, which is pretty much the only time your doomsday senario can occur.

Second, even if there was, the merge point would put that very, very temporary burden on the stand-by line which is less volatile in absorbing fluctuations because of volume.

Sure it will increase stand-by waits. They are...you know...standing by.

IMO if this is true it is a flaw of the system.
You have absolutely nothing but ancedotial evidence to back this up.
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
And do what - Explain that you're trying to cheat the system and a CM won't let you :shrug:

If "cheating" is what you call it then I guess, yes.

But no, tell them that you weren't aware that they changed the "late" fastpass policy and ask them if they can honor it this time and next time I/we will know.
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
Found this on another sites forum.

By using your FP beyond the window, you are not "getting away" with something, you are not "breaking rules", you are simply using the FP as allowed. When I use my FP does not affect crowd control at WDW or the attraction. My use of the FP does not have any impact on 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who can ride an attraction in a day. FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and they understand that the only time you cannot spend money is when you are riding and when you are in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. If I use my FP during the time window, someone waiting in the standby line will just have to wait a little longer. If I use it later that day, that same person (and many others) will simply get to ride a little sooner. Either way, the same number of people still ride. Complicated? NO - just simple logistics and ride management.

I have do have firsthand information concerning "late" FP use. My cousin, Scott Bowden, works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing - he and I have had a few conversations about this issue. It has now become a joke because whenever I call him, the first thing he says is "Fastpasses do not expire, what's up?"
Additionally, a father in our first China adoption travel group (Mike Lewinski) works for the outside firm in Buffalo that actually helped Disney design and implement the FP (they make some of the components in the machines and in the software). He is very familiar with the logistics of the FP and how they work to provide better guest movement in the parks.

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.

I do hear the argument that if everyone holds their FP until later it will clog the system. Consider the following extreme example:

5000 people collect FP's for Space Mtn in the morning and ALL of them choose to return after their window. The people in the standby line just have to wait. Still, the same number of people ride the ride and it never stops - it runs at capacity. BUT - for every one of those people who hold their FP until later, 1 person gets to ride earlier in the day.

Simplest example: you and I are the only people in the park. I use my FP at 10am(earliest return time printed on the FP), you (standby rider) have to wait. OR, I use my FP at 5pm(well after the end of the stated window) and you were able to ride anytime before that - with me not getting in your way.

If you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 1 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 1 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. None of this is intended as a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

Thanks for the input. I like the telephone greeting. :lol:
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
BTW...if people want to argue that the FastPass system shouldn't be designed to accept FastPasses after a certain time, then I'm not going to knock anyone for that.

My only reason for chiming in is there seems to be an understanding that people who came back outside the printed window are cheating, gaming the system, or in some way acting outside the way the system is intended to be used. That's simply not true. As the system is designed right now, returning outside the window is perfectly OK. There's no need to feel ashamed about it. There's no ethical or moral dimension involved at all.

If Disney changes the policy tomorrow and says the printed window is no longer a guideline but a rule, then I'll stand on the other side of this one.
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
Disney can't regulate them. The end result would be unhappy customers.

Disney frequently hands out FPs to customers who complain whether the customer's complaint is valid or not. So if you turn someone away for using an old FP, they will complain and most likely get... a new FP.

Disney knows the impact of letting folks use old FPs. They have determined (wisely so I think) that it is better not to regulate FPs than to upset their guests by doing so.

Ideally, Disney would switch to a system that can be better regulated. The next gen queue seems like such a system to me.

Exactly, which explains my other posts about heading to guest relations.
 

Figment632

New Member
Take it from someone who has worked on a Fastpass attraction. You are wrong.

First, there aren't throngs of people bombarding Fastpass line with expired passes at the same time, which is pretty much the only time your doomsday senario can occur.

Second, even if there was, the merge point would put that very, very temporary burden on the stand-by line which is less volatile in absorbing fluctuations because of volume.

Sure it will increase stand-by waits. They are...you know...standing by.

You have absolutely nothing but ancedotial evidence to back this up.

Its just my opinion, so why is there a second time at all?
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Its just my opinion, so why is there a second time at all?

That's fine, but your opinion is based on false assumptions.

This is why there is a second time:

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
My only reason for chiming in is there seems to be an understanding that people who came back outside the printed window are cheating, gaming the system, or in some way acting outside the way the system is intended to be used. That's simply not true. As the system is designed right now, returning outside the window is perfectly OK. There's no need to feel ashamed about it. There's no ethical or moral dimension involved at all.

How is it that valid for FP use, but not for re-use of refillable mugs? It's the exact same thing. The printed rules state that FP holders can enter "between the times noted on the other side." The printed rules for refillable mugs state that free refills are available only during the stay which the mug was purchased. Posters are staying that since Disney doesn't enforce the FP rule, then they are legitimately using the FP after the return window. They don't enforce the mug re-use rule either, yet people here get up in arms about re-use. How doesn't Disney's lack of enforcement differ in that case?

(Just playing Devil's Advocate).
 

kimmychad

Member
It amazes me how many people freak out when someone says they're bringing back their resort mug from another year or that they're parking at a resort and taking a bus or monorail to a park -
but cheating the fp system, eh thats ok. free dining plan is the most evil thing since hitler, but AP discounts are the bomb.

the hypocrites on here are annoying. slam anything that you don't agree with, but cheat everywhere else.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
How is it that valid for FP use, but not for re-use of refillable mugs? It's the exact same thing. The printed rules state that FP holders can enter "between the times noted on the other side." The printed rules for refillable mugs state that free refills are available only during the stay which the mug was purchased. Posters are staying that since Disney doesn't enforce the FP rule, then they are legitimately using the FP after the return window. They don't enforce the mug re-use rule either, yet people here get up in arms about re-use. How doesn't Disney's lack of enforcement differ in that case?

(Just playing Devil's Advocate).
In my opinion, it is simply projecting personal morality onto corporate policy. With that comes all the inconsistancies of morality.

When it comes down to it, I think Disney will do what it takes to keep the customer happy.

If allowing them to come back after their Fastpass times or allowing them to use a Halloween 1998 mug will help a guest afford another $1000-$2000 vacation next year, it is worth the short term expense.

I still remember my Tradition's instructor telling us about giving away ice cream to upset children, "Disney can afford to lose $4 on ice cream. It can't afford to lose thousands of dollars on follow up vacations, because Timmy is inconsolable."
 

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