FastPass+ open to all guests including offsite beginning next week at Disney's Animal Kingdom

[ParentsOf4]

I don’t get how the legacy Fastpasses helped with spontaneity. You have to either run to the attraction you want or happen to be in the area to get one and then return during the 1 hour window. You can’t choose the one hour window or change it so you are set on when you have to use it. If you don’t like the return time, do you wait around until a later return, probably not so you just skip it or come back later. So I don’t see how FP+ makes this more difficult.

Legacy FP helps with spontaneity where it matters the most.

Each morning at WDW, I'd wake up and ask my family, "What park do you want to go to today?"

FP+ locks us into parks days and possibly weeks before arrival. FP+ locks us into specific attractions at specific times days and possibly weeks before arrival.

My experience with FP+ (see link) was that with above average crowd levels, it was nearly impossible to change FP+ selections on relatively short notice.

What I didn't post in that link was that more than a week before, I wanted to change my FP+ selections for a couple of attractions at the Magic Kingdom. The only times left for attractions such as Peter Pan, Space Mountain, and Big Thunder Mountain were late at night. (MK was opened till 1 AM when we visited.)

FP+ is not flexible when crowds are anything above moderate levels.

There is common sense to this. Disney can't let you change your FP+ selection from (for example) 10 AM to 2 PM if all FP+ ride capacity from 2 pm to 3 pm is already distributed. Yet if all FP+ selections are not distributed, then that means Standby lines are shorter anyway. At times like those, FP+ is less beneficial.

In other words, FP+ is less flexible exactly at the times when it would be most beneficial to be more flexible.

 

[orky8]

Legacy FP helps with spontaneity where it matters the most.

Each morning at WDW, I'd wake up and ask my family, "What park do you want to go to today?"

FP+ locks us into parks days and possibly weeks before arrival. FP+ locks us into specific attractions at specific times days and possibly weeks before arrival.

While I completely agree with you, ADRs are also already responsible for locking people into specific parks months in advance. And now that there is a hefty day-of cancellation fee, people are literally locked in at least after midnight. FP+ seems like a natural extension of this.

As with ADRs, the whole system would be so much more customer friendly if Disney simply held back 50% of the capacity. Allow people who want to plan to do so, but also allow for same day changes. Especially at a place that is designed for families, it is patently unreasonable to (1) make people plan these minute details months in advance and then (2) make the system inflexible to last minute adjustments that are inevitable with young children.

FP+ and ADRs are good concepts, I think. But there needs to be more flexibility built into the system and that can't happen until they build more attractions at three of their theme parks, because there simply aren't enough FP+ slots to hold any back right now. ADRs could accommodate that flexibility tomorrow, but it would require Disney to care more about the customer experience than the bottom line and allow for the possibility that perhaps not every table will be filled on a particular night.

 

[weedles]

You keep repeating this while ignoring the glut of reservations 60+ out that will wipe out day of availability. What is possible now will not be when this system is fully implemented. For them to save money the way they think they can, they are relying on knowing as far out what they need to allocate where. None of that is for your benefit.

FP+ prebooking for onsite guests has been going on for quite some time with day of availability remaining.

 

[Jeffxz]

I would assume that the system can tell them exactly how many FPs each ticket that went through the main entrance was issued. They don't need to do estimates. They can calculate the actual average. Would be very simple to do and I'm sure they designed the system from the get go for accurate stats.

Yes, you are correct. My point in asking the questions was to point out that this number is referred to very often as fact, but could be easily maniplated by persons inside of Disney trying to acheive a goal.

Adding a few qualifiers could drastically change the meaning of this number. For example, saying the average guest at epcot gets less than 2 fastpasses a day has an entirely different meaning that saying the average guest gets less than 2 fastpases a day at the magic kingdom. Epcot only has 2 rides that truely need fastpass, so even if most guests get 2 fastpasses the average number accross all guests will be less than 2. This may not hold true at the MK where there are many different rides to use FP for.

This meaning could be different with other qualifiers too. Time of year calculation is based on? All Guests or Target Demographic? All parks or just 1? On-site guests or all guests? MYW or Florida Resident ticket holders?

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Well, Iam hardly seeing the doom and gloom people have written about MM+ yet never experienced it. I'll give Disney the benefit of doubt and 2 years to work it out to perfection, which of course they will. And people will wonder how the lived without it.

And Universal will look like dinosaurs while they value engineer yet another attraction.


Jimmy Thick- Kudo's to Disney for bringing to life the next generation of convenience.

 

[lazyboy97o]

FP+ prebooking for onsite guests has been going on for quite some time with day of availability remaining.

FastPass+ is not going to remain limited as it has been.

Well, Iam hardly seeing the doom and gloom people have written about MM+ yet never experienced it. I'll give Disney the benefit of doubt and 2 years to work it out to perfection, which of course they will. And people will wonder how the lived without it.

And Universal will look like dinosaurs while they value engineer yet another attraction.


Jimmy Thick- Kudo's to Disney for bringing to life the next generation of convenience.

Disney could have bought much of MyMagic+ at IAAPA years ago.

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, you are correct. My point in asking the questions was to point out that this number is referred to very often as fact, but could be easily maniplated by persons inside of Disney trying to acheive a goal.

I don't think you see anyone building the pyramids of Giza based on this number. It's just another tidbit in the discussion.

 

[huntzilla]

Well, Iam hardly seeing the doom and gloom people have written about MM+ yet never experienced it. I'll give Disney the benefit of doubt and 2 years to work it out to perfection, which of course they will. And people will wonder how the lived without it.

And Universal will look like dinosaurs while they value engineer yet another attraction.


Jimmy Thick- Kudo's to Disney for bringing to life the next generation of convenience.

I'll give Disney the benefit of doubt and 2 years to work it out to perfection, which of course they will.

which of course they will.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

Yes you can change your reservations at any time, however, it is still added work that we never had to do before.

For instance, I have to start planning my trip for April soon. So now, I have to decide what rides on my first day of vacation will be for that day. Then, 60-days pass, I wake up in Disney and it is pouring outside. Under the old system, I lay back down and sleep in. Under the new system, I have to jump out of bed, we have to get an internet connection, log in and change reservations to avoid losing out. This system is more of a hastle then anything.

IMO, this new system will not be as helpful as Disney might think. Spontaneity is one of the main reasons that people go on vacation. There is no room for that now.

 

[Disneyfamily4]

Yes you can change your reservations at any time, however, it is still added work that we never had to do before.

For instance, I have to start planning my trip for April soon. So now, I have to decide what rides on my first day of vacation will be for that day. Then, 60-days pass, I wake up in Disney and it is pouring outside. Under the old system, I lay back down and sleep in. Under the new system, I have to jump out of bed, we have to get an internet connection, log in and change reservations to avoid losing out. This system is more of a hastle then anything.

IMO, this new system will not be as helpful as Disney might think. Spontaneity is one of the main reasons that people go on vacation. There is no room for that now.

Then figure in this.
Day 1 MK
Day 2 Epcot
Day 3 HS
Day 4 AK.

Now with this system, my 4 days are planned. But what if it is pouring our very first day. Everything gets bumped a day, therefore reservations for the entire trip need to be cancelled and rescheduled.

And this system is helpful? Again, under the old system, If day one is raining, we go back to sleep and relax. All we have to do is wake up the next morning and head to the park.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Well, Iam hardly seeing the doom and gloom people have written about MM+ yet never experienced it. I'll give Disney the benefit of doubt and 2 years to work it out to perfection, which of course they will. And people will wonder how the lived without it.

And Universal will look like dinosaurs while they value engineer yet another attraction.


Jimmy Thick- Kudo's to Disney for bringing to life the next generation of convenience.

I hope they have this mess all worked out by the time of my next visit. I am planning on driving the 12 miles down I-4 sometime in 2017 to experience their new Soarin' clone in Pandoraland! Until then I will be spending my time and money experiencing the newest, highest quality state of the art attractions the industry has to offer. And the highest quality luxury resorts and some of the best dining found at ANY destination Theme Park Resort. Where? @#UniversalORL!

 

[wdisney9000]

Each morning at WDW, I'd wake up and ask my family, "What park do you want to go to today?"

Thats what I will miss. Some days feel like a MK day while others feel like an EPCOT day. I like not knowing where I will be the next day. Its part of the fun for us. Its a vacation.

FP+ locks us into parks days and possibly weeks before arrival. FP+ locks us into specific attractions at specific times days and possibly weeks before arrival

Some people prefer this instead of getting there for rope drop and dashing to to a machine for a FP. Is it really better or is it just a wash? With FP+ you get your FP guaranteed without dealing with rope drop but you are now locked into times and dates. I think most of us will agree that during peak hours/seasons that it will be virtually impossible to change your FP+ on short notice and your forced to either stick to your schedule or loose the FP you planned months ago. Its a BIG give and take. With rope drop, the downside is getting up early and getting to a machine to get a FP, the upside is its fair game for EVERYONE on the "day of" and you can be more spontaneous.

I visited in November and for me it just felt different. We didnt have any problems but I felt like I was whipping my phone out way too often and Loooooooong lines for FP queues that I had never seen before. I posted a picture of the long line for the FP queue at TT and some retorted by claiming it was a busy day and that was normal. I visit several times a year and have never seen it like that during peak hours. Isnt FP+ supposed to make it BETTER? Perhaps Disney can tweak the distribution times and correct this but it feels like every time they fix one problem it creates another. MyMagic+ is a hydra.

In the end, its just what you, (parentsof4) have said all along. Its not the system, its ATTRACTION CAPACITY that keeps rearing its ugly head up. They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Is it the end of the world? No. Its just a wash. Some are "thick" enough to believe Disney is bringing life to the next generation of convenience. Seems more like they are keeping it alive on life support.

 

[Tom Morrow]

FastPass+ is not going to remain limited as it has been.

I don't know the exact numbers, but lets assume the allotted number of Fastpasses per attraction per hour hasn't changed. Also, lets assume half of the allotments are currently reserved for Fastpass+ and half for Legacy Fastpass. The Fastpass+ allotments are then divided between pre-booked and day-of. Currently all WDW resorts have MM+/FP+ entitlement and have been able to book their Fastpasses in advance. This means that even with a very limited number of "day of" Fastpass+ availability, people are having no issues booking their Fastpass+ selections on the same day. Even Soarin', Test Track, and Toy Story. Even in the afternoon of the same day.

So basically its not even really an issue and its only going to get better.

Thats what I will miss. Some days feel like a MK day while others feel like an EPCOT day. I like not knowing where I will be the next day. Its part of the fun for us. Its a vacation.

Again, you are not "locked in" to the FP+ selections you booked in advance. If you're staying in a Disney resort, you could literally be on your way to Epcot and make a last minute change of heart and decide you want to go to Magic Kingdom instead. As long as you haven't used any of your pre-booked Epcot Fastpass+ selections, you can go into your My Disney Experience account and change them to Magic Kingdom.

 

[kev24135]

Not really relevant to the discussion but if any of you want to see what the inside of my magic band looks like here you go. Not a great pic or anything but its interesting.

 

[Clamman73]

Not really relevant to the discussion but if any of you want to see what the inside of my magic band looks like here you go. Not a great pic or anything but its interesting.

Find any pixie dust?

 

[ParentsOf4]

I don't know the exact numbers, but lets assume the allotted number of Fastpasses per attraction per hour hasn't changed. Also, lets assume half of the allotments are currently reserved for Fastpass+ and half for Legacy Fastpass. The Fastpass+ allotments are then divided between pre-booked and day-of. Currently all WDW resorts have MM+/FP+ entitlement and have been able to book their Fastpasses in advance. This means that even with a very limited number of "day of" Fastpass+ availability, people are having no issues booking their Fastpass+ selections on the same day. Even Soarin', Test Track, and Toy Story. Even in the afternoon of the same day.

Let's use the most egregious example: TSM. (The numbers are about the same for Soarin'.)

Pre-FP+ on most days when crowd levels were modestly up (not at peak, just not light), FP distribution for TSM typically ran out mid-morning, before lunch time.

Are you suggesting that with FP+, a FP+ selection for TSM now will be available "Even in the afternoon of the same day"?

Let's look at some numbers.

Depending on how efficiently TSM is running, it handles about 1000-to-1200 guests/hour. Assuming a 12-hour day at DHS, that comes out to 12,000-to-14,4000 guests/day. Let's use the midpoint of 13,200 as the typical number.

If we assume 80% of TSM's ride capacity is devoted to FP+, then that's 10,560 FP+ available per day.

Multiply that by 365 days and that's 3,854,400 per year. Roughly, that's how many TSM FP+ selections are available in a year.

In order for FP+ to be readily available on short notice, DHS's annual attendance needs to be under roughly 5,000,000. Do you believe DHS's annual attendance is about 5 million?

Yet, with the legacy FP system, TSM frequently ran out by mid-morning.

Sorry, but I don't understand your numbers.

TSM has a serious capacity problem that neither FP or FP+ solves.

If TSM did not have a capacity problem, then WDW would not have tiered it.

For some comparison, at DAK, KS and EE have well over double the ride capacity of TSM and Soarin'. There's a reason Disney has not tiered the attractions at DAK. Even though there are relatively few rides at DAK and most guests pick the same two, KS and EE have just about enough capacity to accommodate everyone who wants to ride them.

TSM needs to be cloned (i.e. 2 identical TSM ride systems). Anything else is simply does not solve TSM's capacity problem.

FP+ is "working" only because Disney is taking capacity away from offsite guests and reallocating it to onsite guests. It's "working" because, except for Thanksgiving week, it's been tested at all resorts during one of the slower times of the year.

Oh and, by the way, as I've posted before (see here), it most definitely was not "working" during Thanksgiving week.

Extrapolate those results to Spring Break, Easter, Summer, and Christmas (when most people visit WDW) and FP+ does not work. In other words, when guests need it the most, FP+ works the least.

FP+ solves nothing. It simply reallocates capacity from offsite guests to onsite guests in order to encourage offsite guests to pay Disney's high resort prices and stay onsite.

WDW's problem is that it has 28,000 onsite rooms, compared to 2,400 at Universal and 2,500 at DLR.

WDW needs to stop building hotels & DVC and start building more rides!

 

[GoofGoof]

FastPass+ is not going to remain limited as it has been.

It's been rolled out to all the resorts at this point for a little while now. Maybe not everyone is using it since it hasn't been made a requirement, but I wouldn't consider it limited either. The testing has been quite broad and if they keep the system as off property guests only booking reservations day of the pre-booked FP availability is likely to be pretty close to current levels. As confirmed by PO4 during a busy time the ability to switch for popular reservations a few days out is limited, but the week before during a low crowd time you could swap out most rides even day of. This is likely to be a trend which will continue.

 

[GoofGoof]

Let's use the most egregious example: TSM. (The numbers are about the same for Soarin'.)

Pre-FP+ on most days when crowd levels were modestly up (not at peak, just not light), FP distribution for TSM typically ran out mid-morning, before lunch time.

Are you suggesting that with FP+, a FP+ selection for TSM now will be available "Even in the afternoon of the same day"?

Let's look at some numbers.

Depending on how efficiently TSM is running, it handles about 1000-to-1200 guests/hour. Assuming a 12-hour day at DHS, that comes out to 12,000-to-14,4000 guests/day. Let's use the midpoint of 13,200 as the typical number.

If we assume 80% of TSM's ride capacity is devoted to FP+, then that's 10,560 FP+ available per day.

Multiply that by 365 days and that's 3,854,400 per year. Roughly, that's how many TSM FP+ selections are available in a year.

In order for FP+ to be readily available on short notice, DHS's annual attendance needs to be under roughly 5,000,000. Do you believe DHS's annual attendance is about 5 million?

Yet, with the legacy FP system, TSM frequently ran out by mid-morning.

Sorry, but I don't understand your numbers.

TSM has a serious capacity problem that neither FP or FP+ solves.

If TSM did not have a capacity problem, then WDW would not have tiered it.

For some comparison, at DAK, KS and EE have well over double the ride capacity of TSM and Soarin'. There's a reason Disney has not tiered the attractions at DAK. Even though there are relatively few rides at DAK and most guests pick the same two, KS and EE have just about enough capacity to accommodate everyone who wants to ride them.

TSM needs to be cloned (i.e. 2 identical TSM ride systems). Anything else is simply does not solve TSM's capacity problem.

FP+ is "working" only because Disney is taking capacity away from offsite guests and reallocating it to onsite guests. It's been "working" because, except for Thanksgiving week, it's been tested during one of the slower times of the year.

Oh and, by the way, as I've posted before (see here), it most definitely was not "working" during Thanksgiving week.

Extrapolate those results to Spring Break, Easter, Summer, and Christmas (in other words, when most people visit WDW) and FP+ does not work. In other words, when guests need it the most, FP+ works the least.

FP+ solves nothing. It simply reallocates capacity from offsite guests to onsite guests in order to encourage offsite guests to pay Disney's high resort prices and stay onsite.

WDW's problem is that it has 28,000 onsite rooms, compared to 2,400 at Universal and 2,500 at DLR.

WDW needs to stop building hotels & DVC and start building more rides!

Even during a low crowd time FP+ was not available for me for TSMM day of. That ride is always going to have problems and book up very early (think Cindy's Royal Table for ADRs). There was some availability for TT and Soarin the day before, I didn't check day of.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Even during a low crowd time FP+ was not available for me for TSMM day of. That ride is always going to have problems and book up very early (think Cindy's Royal Table for ADRs). There was some availability for TT and Soarin the day before, I didn't check day of.

What's particularly frustrating with TSM and Soarin' is that those attractions are relatively inexpensive to clone.

If you view park layouts, space is available to double-up on these popular attractions. (Test Track is an example of something that should not be cloned.)

However, reducing wait times at TSM and Soarin' is not sexy at corporate. Building more DVC resorts is.

Heck, reduce wait times enough and FP+ isn't even needed. Talk about destroying a business model. Long Standby lines actually help MyMagic+'s business case.

It makes you wonder ...

 

[GoofGoof]

What's particularly frustrating with TSM and Soarin' is that those attractions are relatively inexpensive to clone.

If you view park layouts, space is available to double-up on these popular attractions. (Test Track is an example of something that should not be cloned.)

However, reducing wait times at TSM and Soarin' is not sexy at corporate. Building more DVC resorts is.

Heck, reduce wait times enough and FP+ isn't even needed. Talk about destroying a business model. Long Standby lines actually help MyMagic+'s business case.

It makes you wonder ...

Isn't there a plan to clone Soarin? No I don't mean the "blue" version in AK, but an actual doubling of the existing EPCOT attraction. There is precedent now. Double Dumbos. I know a spinner does to exactly break the bank, but it's possible.

For TSMM I wonder if they would consider doubling down if/when a Pixar Place expansion ever occurs. That's when Dumbo got his makeover at MK. It would be a cheap way to greatly expand capacity in a park desperate for more rides (especially family friendly ones).