FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[DisneyJoe]

Agenda aside— a claim that 50% of WDW guests are annual repeat visitors is flatly absurd. Based on attendance, it would mean that almost 10% of Americans go to WDW… not just once or twice, but every single year.

Outside of online forums, I’ve never met anyone who goes to WDW every year. (Personally, I average 3 times per decade… and that’s more than most people I know).
I doubt 10% of Americans could even afford to take trips to WDW every year.

The people who go every single year to WDW, booking a resort or DVC, are a small minority of the 50+ million annual visitors.

I know many who go at least once a year.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Actually, this can be seen as the ultimate DVC benefit: Charge for FPs per ride and then offer a DVC discount on the price for blue cards. They'll still get customers to pay more, but the DVC owners will feel like they are getting a special perk while also paying more!

It’s a nice way to screw the resale market too!

 

[AshaNeOmah]

Is there any evidence that there will be two stand-by lines? One real and one virtual? That just sounds like speculation at this point.

Is that how Paris operates?

Going to fully virtual stand-bys (like Volcano Bay) would have obvious advantages and disadvantages, with the ability to 'skip' the virtual queue being the new FastPass. Once you or Disney runs out of free passes, still limited to a certain number per attraction per day, or you want additional passes on top of the free passes, you start to pay for WDW DLC.

I don't like it, but I could see it happening before simply 'pay to ride' happens.

 

[willsdad01]

So, what would be better:
If a restaurant charged $per person, but it was unlimited all-you-can eat… You can have the lobster, steak, caviar.

Or, if a restaurant charged only for what you order— so the person who wants the lobster pays $50, the person who wants the steak pays $40, the person who wants the salad pays $20…. And the person who wants all 3 pays $110.

Breaking up pricing actually works to the benefit of the customer, more often than not.

But Disney is already charging per person for unlimited and the thought is they will also charge for what you order too. If I pay the equivalent Disney charges for park entry in order to enter the restaurant and the expectation is that it’s all you can eat…except the lobster, steak and caviar, which if it runs out oh well OR pay the extra $ to guarantee you’ll get it then I think that’s a cash grab.

 

[Joel]

That unlike symphony concert halls where the blue-hairs are dying out, the .... born every minute at Disney are sprouting up like $39.99 rose gold mouse ears?

There may be a seemingly endless supply of "rose gold mouse ear purchasers", but the financial conditions under which it's feasible for the "rose gold mouse ear purchasers" to allow themselves to be taken advantage of won't last forever. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Is there any evidence that there will be two stand-by lines? One real and one virtual? That just sounds like speculation at this point.

Is that how Paris operates?

Going to fully virtual stand-bys (like Volcano Bay) would have obvious advantages and disadvantages, with the ability to 'skip' the virtual queue being the new FastPass. Once you or Disney runs out of free passes, still limited to a certain number per attraction per day, or you want additional passes on top of the free passes, you start to pay for WDW DLC.

I don't like it, but I could see it happening before simply 'pay to ride' happens.

Where are the crowds going to go if we're all in virtual lines? They can't all be hanging out in stores and restaurants.

 

[monothingie]

Actually, this can be seen as the ultimate DVC benefit: Charge for FPs per ride and then offer a DVC discount on the price for blue cards. They'll still get customers to pay more, but the DVC owners will feel like they are getting a special perk while also paying more!

I'm actually kind of shocked there aren't any crumbs thrown at resort guests. (Included Premiere Passes based on resort level). Or even a full day option to purchase.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Where are the crowds going to go if we're all in virtual lines? They can't all be hanging out in stores and restaurants.

Not every attraction will be using virtual lines.

 

[Parker in NYC]

There may be a seemingly endless supply of "rose gold mouse ear purchasers", but the financial conditions under which it's feasible for the "rose gold mouse ear purchasers" to allow themselves to be taken advantage of won't last forever. That's what I keep telling myself anyway.

Why do I feel like Disney will keep raising prices on those things that do sell... no matter what, to offset any dips elsewhere?

 

[Parker in NYC]

Not every attraction will be using virtual lines.

So, for those who can't get into a virtual line or choose not to do Mickey's Made You Look Lighting Whatever, where will those lines spill out?

 

[flynnibus]

So at worst, things are worse than they are today and at best they aren't?

Maybe there is an upside somewhere in there for you but I don't see any for me, personally.

To each their own, I guess.

Don't take my comments to be an approval of the system as a whole. Just addressing the specific points people have tried to make. The way you have a convincing conclusion is to have it based on solid, believable supporting points. So the way you counter or change a conclusion is to address the points it's built on. Well, that's if people are being logical, instead of just emotional

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Given there are many self described Disney fanatics here to which theming is a important (vital?) part of their Disney experience, why are they rushing through the line? Why aren’t the spending longer in the queues? I mean immersion is a word oft used.

After all if that is what separates Disney from other amusement parks in their mind why do they chose to miss that?

I know this was a rhetorical question, but I actually think you bring up a good, quasi-existential question about Disney theme parks.

Because you're right - we'll drone on and on for days (and years!) about the difference in the Disney experience vs. other parks, and how queues and preshows and elaborate theming are an essential element in that difference . . . and then immediately turn around and fight for a fastpass so we can just get on the dang ride already.

I'm once again gonna relate the experience to that of a Meal - if a Ride is an Entrée then perhaps the Preshow more like an Appetizer, and the Queue maybe more like an Hors D'oeuvre. If you have the choice between two restaurants who serve comparably good Entrées (or not comparable, your mileage may vary), you may yet favor the one with the better appetizers and hors d'ouvres. It is still possible that some days you may simply want just order the Entree, but the additional offerings may still inform your overall favor of restaurant.

I do think this situation doesn't quite exist in a vacuum - if the parks weren't being orchestrated (intentionally or otherwise) to negatively impact the guest's general ability to get on as many rides as possible then there might be less impulse to blow past the queue and preshow and just get on the ride. But I do also think it's fair to say that a trend has grown in recent years where we're being offered more meaningful hors d'oeuvres and appetizers while they scale back on the Entrees, and you wouldn't let that slide in your favorite restaurant. And if they slow service to give you more time to focus on those first parts without delivering fully on the later parts, you might reach a point where you don't necessarily want to invest in a full meal, you just want to skip to the "meat" and then get on with your day.

This can all be true and still have you feeling like you prefer this restaurant's menu over the restaurant down the street.

 

[AshaNeOmah]

Where are the crowds going to go if we're all in virtual lines? They can't all be hanging out in stores and restaurants.

Yeah, that's the disadvantage that theme parks not design for virtual queues are going to face. Exterior queues can all be removed and replaced with communal areas, but it probably still doesn't provide all the space needed.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Don't take my comments to be an approval of the system as a whole. Just addressing the specific points people have tried to make. The way you have a convincing conclusion is to have it based on solid, believable supporting points. So the way you counter or change a conclusion is to address the points it's built on. Well, that's if people are being logical, instead of just emotional

Choosing to go to WDW has always been an emotional decision.

 

[aaronml]

I worked under one of the current VPs of WDW directly years ago…you want me to give him a call? He won’t know either

Heh — I’d expect senior park leadership to be aware of plans at this point, but he probably won’t / can’t tell you anything.

 

[dsinclair]

I know many who go at least once a year.

I don't know anyone outside of my family that has ever been to WDW.

 

[Indy_UK]

And the folks over at Paris aren't happy either.

ED92 | 📄 Blog : Disneyland Paris, Paid Disney Premier Access

Ed92 | Blog : Disney premier access, Installed in the official application, this new system will allow you to buy queue-saver tickets

www.ed92.org

Interesting that they mention that if you don’t have a smart phone, you swipe your credit card at fast pass machines.

weren’t there images on here recently of the Orlando FP kiosks and people saying they will accept credit cards.

 

[MrPromey]

Don't take my comments to be an approval of the system as a whole. Just addressing the specific points people have tried to make. The way you have a convincing conclusion is to have it based on solid, believable supporting points. So the way you counter or change a conclusion is to address the points it's built on. Well, that's if people are being logical, instead of just emotional

I mean, at the end of the day, we're all speculating on stuff they haven't even said is happening but to be totally up front, no solution that is 80%+ moving people around within the same attraction capacity is going to make me happy - paid or not.

I don't see how they can number crunch their way out of this problem. (Well, it's a problem to me as a guest. I'm not sure it's a problem to their bottom line, yet)

Them trying to "manage" crowds by pushing them around while in some cases, not adding capacity and in others, actually decreasing it, is what got us into this situation to begin with so any time I hear that they may be on the cusp of a new numbers game, I'm unhappy.

Pre-COVID, I was incredibly unhappy with the crowd levels and waits in the parks as-was. Any solution that doesn't involve either permanently limiting crowds (never going to happen, as Sirwalter said) or significantly increases capacity is not going to improve things, to me.

Heck, even adding a 5th gate so they could put in a slew of more shopping and dining options and a whole new line of suvineers, I'd find acceptable at this point even though I think they have a lot to fix in the existing parks before even starting to think about adding something new to neglect.

 

[Raineman]

Soooooooo...how about those Splash and JC rethemes, huh? And, those Epcot changes...what a doozy... And that dang PoTC auction scene.

 

[GoofGoof]

If you get a Standby Pass, wouldn't you have to still wait in line after your allotted time is called? So conceivably you could still be waiting 2 hours in line, just 6 hours later.

In theory no. The standby pass was implemented during covid to only allocate a certain number of people per time slot to the standby line due to distancing in lines. In theory if they set the number of people equal to a 2 hour rate then yes, but if they set it up with 60 min or less then you wouldn’t ever wait 2 hours unless maybe the ride breaks while you are in line. The idea is you just keep getting bumped out further and in theory on a crowded day or a popular ride they would “sell out” of standby pass and then your only option is to pay for the next time slot. I would think that would be daily at RoTR.