FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Padraig]

Interesting that they mention that if you don’t have a smart phone, you swipe your credit card at fast pass machines.

weren’t there images on here recently of the Orlando FP kiosks and people saying they will accept credit cards.

Wow, not even a layer of abstraction so you don't feel gouged. I hope they can take blood for those who forget/don't have their cards on them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Did you pay for the VIP Forum Concierge?

Today winner…

 

[IanDLBZF]

weren’t there images on here recently of the Orlando FP kiosks and people saying they will accept credit cards.

Wow, not even a layer of abstraction so you don't feel gouged. I hope they can take blood for those who forget/don't have their cards on them.

I doubt they'll even accept cash, and you'd have to go to Guest Relations to do that.

 

[pdude81]

Maybe now that every hour is monetized you'll see the hours increase again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In theory no. The standby pass was implemented during covid to only allocate a certain number of people per time slot to the standby line due to distancing in lines. In theory if they set the number of people equal to a 2 hour rate then yes, but if they set it up with 60 min or less then you wouldn’t ever wait 2 hours unless maybe the ride breaks while you are in line. The idea is you just keep getting bumped out further and in theory on a crowded day or a popular ride they would “sell out” of standby pass and then your only option is to pay for the next time slot. I would think that would be daily at RoTR.

So let me get this straight…

in 2018 they had about 55,000,000 gate clicks…probably the same in 2019…

in 2020/early 21…it was likely less than half that.

so how does your math hold at full open? Just curious

 

[orky8]

I know this was a rhetorical question, but I actually think you bring up a good, quasi-existential question about Disney theme parks.

Because you're right - we'll drone on and on for days (and years!) about the difference in the Disney experience vs. other parks, and how queues and preshows and elaborate theming are an essential element in that difference . . . and then immediately turn around and fight for a fastpass so we can just get on the dang ride already.

I'm once again gonna relate the experience to that of a Meal - if a Ride is an Entrée then perhaps the Preshow more like an Appetizer, and the Queue maybe more like an Hors D'oeuvre. If you have the choice between two restaurants who serve comparably good Entrées (or not comparable, your mileage may vary), you may yet favor the one with the better appetizers and hors d'ouvres. It is still possible that some days you may simply want just order the Entree, but the additional offerings may still inform your overall favor of restaurant.

I do think this situation doesn't quite exist in a vacuum - if the parks weren't being orchestrated (intentionally or otherwise) to negatively impact the guest's general ability to get on as many rides as possible then there might be less impulse to blow past the queue and preshow and just get on the ride. But I do also think it's fair to say that a trend has grown in recent years where we're being offered more meaningful hors d'oeuvres and appetizers while they scale back on the Entrees, and you wouldn't let that slide in your favorite restaurant. And if they slow service to give you more time to focus on those first parts without delivering fully on the later parts, you might reach a point where you don't necessarily want to invest in a full meal, you just want to skip to the "meat" and then get on with your day.

This can all be true and still have you feeling like you prefer this restaurant's menu over the restaurant down the street.

Because my young children don't have the same appreciation for a 3 course meal that I do. But, I do agree with everything you said.

This past trip was my first time getting to see the FoP queue. It was very nice, but I wouldn't want to wait 2 hours in it.

 

[MrPromey]

I know this was a rhetorical question, but I actually think you bring up a good, quasi-existential question about Disney theme parks.

Because you're right - we'll drone on and on for days (and years!) about the difference in the Disney experience vs. other parks, and how queues and preshows and elaborate theming are an essential element in that difference . . . and then immediately turn around and fight for a fastpass so we can just get on the dang ride already.

I'm once again gonna relate the experience to that of a Meal - if a Ride is an Entrée then perhaps the Preshow more like an Appetizer, and the Queue maybe more like an Hors D'oeuvre. If you have the choice between two restaurants who serve comparably good Entrées (or not comparable, your mileage may vary), you may yet favor the one with the better appetizers and hors d'ouvres. It is still possible that some days you may simply want just order the Entree, but the additional offerings may still inform your overall favor of restaurant.

I do think this situation doesn't quite exist in a vacuum - if the parks weren't being orchestrated (intentionally or otherwise) to negatively impact the guest's general ability to get on as many rides as possible then there might be less impulse to blow past the queue and preshow and just get on the ride. But I do also think it's fair to say that a trend has grown in recent years where we're being offered more meaningful hors d'oeuvres and appetizers while they scale back on the Entrees, and you wouldn't let that slide in your favorite restaurant. And if they slow service to give you more time to focus on those first parts without delivering fully on the later parts, you might reach a point where you don't necessarily want to invest in a full meal, you just want to skip to the "meat" and then get on with your day.

This can all be true and still have you feeling like you prefer this restaurant's menu over the restaurant down the street.

I'd say the other issue here, straying from your comparison to a restaurant, is that while some ques have become more interesting and elaborate to help deal with the waits, for part of their length, many have not. The line for Soarin' is still mind-numbingly boring as are many others and the fact that there is no movement at all, sometimes for extended periods creates the feeling of nothing but wasted time standing or leaning but "please do not sit or hang on the railings!" that gets harder and harder to reel your kids in from as the day progresses.

The line for FOP is interesting once you get inside. It's moderately not bad once you start going up the side of the hill outside but in many cases, you've already been standing in line for hours starting back by the Lion King by the time you get to that point because it simply wasn't designed to hold as many people in standby as it does, even though it opened four years after FP+ rolled out... which btw, was now over four years ago and what are those standby lines still looking like?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I doubt they'll even accept cash, and you'd have to go to Guest Relations to do that.

It will be through the app…don’t see how you want to pay being a concern of theirs…if you’re not on a newer smartphone…you’re screwed anyway

 

[havoc315]

I know many who go at least once a year.

10% of your co-workers, 10% of your friends, and 10% of your extended family… all go at least once per year?

 

[dreday3]

Maybe now that every hour is monetized you'll see the hours increase again.

See? They finally figured out how to keep people in Animal Kingdom at night! Somehow everyone's stand-by pass return for FoP won't be until 8 pm.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Because my young children don't have the same appreciation for a 3 course meal that I do. But, I do agree with everything you said.

This past trip was my first time getting to see the FoP queue. It was very nice, but I wouldn't want to wait 2 hours in it.

The idea that people want the queues is a pro-Disney myth/excuse.

people don’t want to stand in an hour line to see imagineering prop fetish. They tolerate it if there isn’t an option…but if you open the straight shot line and the “elaborate themed” queues…99 out of 100 take the walk on.

these are amusement parks…not art museums. They just have a reputation of offering higher quality and some change of pace/variety…but you open a gate with rides behind it - and that’s where the school of fish swim

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

10% of your co-workers, 10% of your friends, and 10% of your extended family… all go at least once per year?

Are you off your gourd here? Why do you think people don’t go that much?

 

[pdude81]

See? They finally figured out how to keep people in Animal Kingdom at night! Somehow everyone's stand-by pass return for FoP won't be until 8 pm.

I'd love to go to Pandora at night, but unfortunately they keep closing at 7.

 

[GoofGoof]

So let me get this straight…

in 2018 they had about 55,000,000 gate clicks…probably the same in 2019…

in 2020/early 21…it was likely less than half that.

so how does your math hold at full open? Just curious

What math??? You know how many people an hour go through an attraction and what percent you want to allocate to the paid riders and the standby riders. Once the standby line hits your designated max wait - say 45 mins you turn on standby pass. So if that happens at 10am no more people enter the standby line and you are told to come back at 11am to wait in the standby line. Disney has complete control on how long you will wait based on how many standby passes they allocate. They can allocate enough passes to keep standby waits under whatever number they see fit. On crowded days or at crowded attractions they will ”sell out“ of standby passes just like they would “sell out” of regular fast passes before FP+. At that time you either don’t ride the ride that day or pay for the next available time at the surge price.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Heh — I’d expect senior park leadership to be aware of plans at this point, but he probably won’t / can’t tell you anything.

Point is that he’s not posting on the board…and don’t assume anything in what is ultimately an oligarch company

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What math??? You know how many people an hour go through an attraction and what percent you want to allocate to the paid riders and the standby riders. Once the standby line hits your designated max wait - say 45 mins you turn on standby pass. So if that happens at 10am no more people enter the standby line and you are told to come back at 11am to wait in the standby line. Disney has complete control on how long you will wait based on how many standby passes they allocate. They can allocate enough passes to keep standby waits under whatever number they see fit. On crowded days or at crowded attractions they will ”sell out“ of standby passes just like they would “sell out” of regular fast passes before FP+. At that time you either don’t ride the ride that day or pay for the next available time at the surge price.

The rides have fixed capacity…so the real question is what do the tens of thousands that can’t get into your “wait time controlled” virtual system do?

dance parties?

my point is that nothing “learned” over the last year has any bearing on a new crowd management system. No “go by” with the exception of the park reservations

 

[DisneyJoe]

10% of your co-workers, 10% of your friends, and 10% of your extended family… all go at least once per year?

80% of my co-workers go once a year or more often, the others go every other year. Roughly 35% of my friends, and probably 40-50% of my family, yes.

I just returned from a trip and have another planned in November.
My son went to WDW 3 times this year.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

80% of my co-workers go once a year or more often, the others go every other year. Roughly 35% of my friends, and probably 40-50% of my family, yes.

There are about 7,000 units of “villas” in wdw - bout 1/3 of the total room capacity (and rising) that average somewhere between 1-2 annual visits…

our friend believes those are occupied by people that go every 6 years…apparently?

 

[Andrew M]

I'm actually kind of shocked there aren't any crumbs thrown at resort guests. (Included Premiere Passes based on resort level). Or even a full day option to purchase.

I'd be completely shocked if Deluxe Resort guests do not get atleast the first few passes free.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'd be completely shocked if Deluxe Resort guests do not get atleast the first few passes free.

Prepare to be shocked.

those “deluxe” are tied - except for 1 - to several hundred DVC rooms (minimum) each…And DVC is not getting free monetized “assets”