FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Chip Chipperson]

I'm still failing to see the difference. If the wait for a ride you want to experience is 3 hours, your options are either to get in line or come back later whether there's Standby Pass or not. And every second that you spend deciding what to do now is a second that other guests can be getting in the standby queue.

StandbyPass or not, the number of people visiting the park is the same, and the ride capacity is the same. There will be the same number of people on rides, and the same number of people not on rides, regardless of whether this system exists. What would change is what the people in the latter camp are doing - under the current system, they stand and wait; with SBP, they could do a lot more. You're claiming that if "a lot more" doesn't include riding other rides, they would somehow be worse off than they are now, standing and waiting.

The difference is that if you opt not to book the Standby Pass you might not have the option to get on line later if the ride never leaves Standby Pass mode. So now you either feel forced to accept a virtual 3-hour wait with no ability to ride anything else in the meantime OR miss the opportunity to ride that ride at all. Right now - with or without FP+ available - you can choose to come back to it later if the line is too long. A Standby Pass system that locks you out of riding anything else removes that option unless you want to risk not being able to ride that ride.

 

[DisneyDodo]

I never said 'waiting in line is good' - so no fear there! I said being allowed to wander a theme park for 3 hours but not ride anything is what people would hate. There is a difference - if you can't figure that out, then you should study behavior a bit more.

I understand your point - "waiting in line is good" was meant to be an oversimplified summary. My point is that I disagree that waiting in line beats wandering around the park without riding things. "Wandering the parks" would include things like eating and shopping. Plus, shows with available capacity could be opened to guests holding a SBP for something else. You could also experience things like TSI and Swiss Family Treehouse at MK; animal trails, RPW, and the Boneyard at AK; SWLB and OMD at DHS; and all of the WS pavilions at Epcot. And if the wait was really long, you could even go back to your hotel room and swim or relax. If you're not convinced that most guests would be happier with that option, that's fine. I believe they would be.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I understand your point - "waiting in line is good" was meant to be an oversimplified summary. My point is that I disagree that waiting in line beats wandering around the park without riding things. "Wandering the parks" would include things like eating and shopping. Plus, shows with available capacity could be opened to guests holding a SBP for something else. You could also experience things like TSI and Swiss Family Treehouse at MK; animal trails, RPW, and the Boneyard at AK; SWLB and OMD at DHS; and all of the WS pavilions at Epcot. And if the wait was really long, you could even go back to your hotel room and swim or relax. If you're not convinced that most guests would be happier with that option, that's fine. I believe they would be.

What makes you think they would treat shows differently than rides? "You can watch PhilharMagic or Country Bear Jamboree but you can't ride Alladin's Magic Carpets," doesn't make sense to me.

 

[DisneyDodo]

The difference is that if you opt not to book the Standby Pass you might not have the option to get on line later if the ride never leaves Standby Pass mode. So now you either feel forced to accept a virtual 3-hour wait with no ability to ride anything else in the meantime OR miss the opportunity to ride that ride at all. Right now - with or without FP+ available - you can choose to come back to it later if the line is too long. A Standby Pass system that locks you out of riding anything else removes that option unless you want to risk not being able to ride that ride.

That's not true. You could grab a SBP for the ride later, the same way you could get in line later. The only time you would not be eligible to grab a SBP for that ride would be if you have one for another ride. But again, that's no different than waiting in line for another ride - you can't physically stand in two queues at once either. SBP does not change whether a line is available or when you get on the ride. It only changes what you do while you "wait."

 

[aliceismad]

I understand your point - "waiting in line is good" was meant to be an oversimplified summary. My point is that I disagree that waiting in line beats wandering around the park without riding things. "Wandering the parks" would include things like eating and shopping. Plus, shows with available capacity could be opened to guests holding a SBP for something else. You could also experience things like TSI and Swiss Family Treehouse at MK; animal trails, RPW, and the Boneyard at AK; SWLB and OMD at DHS; and all of the WS pavilions at Epcot. And if the wait was really long, you could even go back to your hotel room and swim or relax. If you're not convinced that most guests would be happier with that option, that's fine. I believe they would be.

That's great for a certain segment of the population, but a not insignificant number of guests just want to ride rides and aren't very interested in things like meandering, watching shows, or shopping for expensive bubble wands and cupcakes. There are also people who are actively angry that they can't wait in a line for ROTR rather than try for a boarding group.

 

[DisneyDodo]

What makes you think they would treat shows differently than rides? "You can watch PhilharMagic or Country Bear Jamboree but you can't ride Alladin's Magic Carpets," doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not saying what they would do, I'm saying what I would do. My whole point is that I don't like the system they've implemented at DLP, where you can grab a SBP and then jump in another queue. I'm expressing how I would design the system if my goal were to maximize guest utility.

For attractions that typically have excess capacity (e.g. ETR), I would still offer a pass that people could reserve if they're not holding another one, which would guarantee them a spot, but I would also have a "standby" line for people who are holding passes for another attraction, and I'd allow them to fill any empty spots in order of arrival.

 

[DisneyDodo]

That's great for a certain segment of the population, but a not insignificant number of guests just want to ride rides and aren't very interested in things like meandering, watching shows, or shopping for expansive bubble wands and cupcakes. There are also people who are actively angry that they can't wait in a line for ROTR rather than try for a boarding group.

Those people are still not worse off, though. They have to wait for X time either way. If they really prefer doing nothing to all of the aforementioned options, they can still do nothing (but now, they would even have the option to sit on a bench instead of stand).

The catastrophe that is the RotR BG system is a great illustration of what it is I'm trying to avoid. If holding a RotR BG prevented you from riding anything else, they would not sell out in 10 seconds, but instead would be reserved gradually throughout the day. Plus, the wait times for every other ride would go down as people waiting their turn for RotR would not be eligible to also wait for something else.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

That's not true. You could grab a SBP for the ride later, the same way you could get in line later. The only time you would not be eligible to grab a SBP for that ride would be if you have one for another ride. But again, that's no different than waiting in line for another ride - you can't physically stand in two queues at once either. SBP does not change whether a line is available or when you get on the ride. It only changes what you do while you "wait."

But to say, "Nah, I'll grab a Standby Pass later," is to assume that there will be a pass available later. If the ride never leaves Standby Pass mode then there will be a finite number of passes available. If you have a must-do ride, would you take that chance?

 

[pdude81]

If standby pass meant I couldn't get on any other queue, then I'd stop going to the parks. It's cheaper to stay at the Hard Rock and go somewhere else.

Thankfully there is no chance Disney would do this as it adds multiple points of complexity and therefore failure

 

[DisneyDodo]

But to say, "Nah, I'll grab a Standby Pass later," is to assume that there will be a pass available later. If the ride never leaves Standby Pass mode then there will be a finite number of passes available. If you have a must-do ride, would you take that chance?

Again, why would you assume this would be different from the way it works now? The same way you can get in line until park close, you would be able to grab a pass until park close.

 

[UNCgolf]

Again, why would you assume this would be different from the way it works now? The same way you can get in line until park close, you would be able to grab a pass until park close.

That wouldn't be feasible if there were already 2000 outstanding passes at park closing. Disney wouldn't be interested in running a ride 2 hours after the park closes -- there's also the issue of all their extra ticketed events. They'd want those rides open for the paying people ASAP.

 

[wutisgood]

That wouldn't be feasible if there were already 2000 outstanding passes at park closing. Disney wouldn't be interested in running a ride 2 hours after the park closes -- there's also the issue of all their extra ticketed events. They'd want those rides open for the paying people ASAP.

Cedar point (at least before covid staffing issues) would run dragster for hours after close almost every night. But hey I guess we can't expect the most expensive parks in the world to have Cedar point service!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cedar point (at least before covid staffing issues) would run dragster for hours after close almost every night. But hey I guess we can't expect the most expensive parks in the world to have Cedar point service!

Not even close to the same

 

[jpinkc]

The difference is that if you opt not to book the Standby Pass you might not have the option to get on line later if the ride never leaves Standby Pass mode. So now you either feel forced to accept a virtual 3-hour wait with no ability to ride anything else in the meantime OR miss the opportunity to ride that ride at all. Right now - with or without FP+ available - you can choose to come back to it later if the line is too long. A Standby Pass system that locks you out of riding anything else removes that option unless you want to risk not being able to ride that ride.

Also dont forget the chance that you come back in an hour or 2 and its still a 3 hour wait as the line is still that long.......

 

[FeelsSoGoodToBeBad]

This convo is hearkening back to something I read about park capacity and how VQs will actually REDUCE capacity (maybe it was here,, or on DTB?) Attraction lines function as "people eaters" (albeit, not fun ones). If you have people who would normally be waiting in a physical line for a ride now roaming the parks while they "wait" in a VQ, those people are now taking up resources (staffing) and "space" in two places, thus reducing the overall capacity of the parks. I don't think Disney will use much in the way of VQs for this reason. They want to sell as many tix as possible on a given day. Once they have you in the park, your experience that day is less of a concern to them, as they already have your money. And if a person decides they don't want to spend the money to repeat a previously less-than-magical Disney experience, there are plenty of people to fill in the hole left behind (at least for now).

 

[wutisgood]

This convo is hearkening back to something I read about park capacity and how VQs will actually REDUCE capacity (maybe it was here,, or on DTB?) Attraction lines function as "people eaters" (albeit, not fun ones). If you have people who would normally be waiting in a physical line for a ride now roaming the parks while they "wait" in a VQ, those people are now taking up resources (staffing) and "space" in two places, thus reducing the overall capacity of the parks. I don't think Disney will use much in the way of VQs for this reason. They want to sell as many tix as possible on a given day. Once they have you in the park, your experience that day is less of a concern to them, as they already have your money. And if a person decides they don't want to spend the money to repeat a previously less-than-magical Disney experience, there are plenty of people to fill in the hole left behind (at least for now).

yes this is why many parks have higher capacity during Halloween events.

 

[jpinkc]

Lets just accept this is Disneys way of Covering up 20 years of not putting in rides. Thats the whole crux of the matter. Yes they have replaced some, but some should not have been replaced!!! They should have ADDED attractions not washed one out to replace with something else. There is no way in Hell WDW didnt have the space to Keep Mr Toad, or 20,000 leagues, they have the space its not landlocked Anaheim. Disneyland I believe still has more Rides and Attractions than MK.

 

[DisneyDodo]

That wouldn't be feasible if there were already 2000 outstanding passes at park closing. Disney wouldn't be interested in running a ride 2 hours after the park closes -- there's also the issue of all their extra ticketed events. They'd want those rides open for the paying people ASAP.

Once again, it’s the same as now. There is nothing stopping 2000 people from getting in line before park close.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Disneyland I believe still has more Rides and Attractions than MK.

Yea it’s not close. Without counting, I’d guess DL has around double the number of rides as MK. Harder to quantify “attractions” since it’s often ambiguous what qualifies as one.

 

[marni1971]

Tick.