FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[UNCgolf]

Really Depends where they cut off the lines. Looking right now (~11:15am) at DHS.

Attraction	Wait Time	Approximate People In line	People Dumped into the park if wait was reduced to 30 mins	People Dumped into the park if wait was reduced to 45 mins
Alien Swirling Saucers	30	294	Queue Open	Queue Open
Millennium Falcon	60	1500	750	1125
RnRC	45	1350	450	Queue Open
SDD	70	2520	1440	900
Star Tours	15	514	Queue Open	Queue Open
TSMM	40	1440	360	Queue Open
TOT	40	1222	305	Queue Open
Total		8840	3,305	2025

The streets, shops, and other things would all for sure get more crowded, no doubt. But if I am able to say wait in a 30 min line for Mickey shorts instead of waiting those 30 minutes in the SDD line and still have 40 mins to go. Ill take the Mickey shorts.

It will definitely depend on how they incorporate the standby pass and how many rides have it operating at once.

There was also a report that in Paris they may cap the number of people that can get a standby pass, which would also change the calculus.

 

[jpinkc]

The second scenario sounds nice, but that's not how it will work in practice. It's not like everyone else is still waiting standby while you're free to roam around -- everyone else in the VQ system will also be roaming around. All of the things you mentioned will be absolutely slammed with people, at least on the busier days. It will not be a pleasant experience to add thousands of additional people to the walkways, shops, etc. at any given time.

It will just shift the lines to other places (you may be waiting in line to watch the Mickey shorts, e.g.) because of the overall lack of capacity. Smaller rides like Winnie the Pooh could easily end up with 60+ minute standby waits if all the main headliners are VQ/standby pass.

I have seen Pooh get close to 100 minutes, soooo

 

[UNCgolf]

I have seen Pooh get close to 100 minutes, soooo

So maybe 120+ minute waits for Pooh on really busy days! Maybe they'd have to activate standby pass for it -- although if they did, that would probably mean almost every attraction in the park had a VQ.

 

[Purduevian]

It will definitely depend on how they incorporate the standby pass and how many rides have it operating at once.

There was also a report that in Paris they may cap the number of people that can get a standby pass, which would also change the calculus.

I think that is the fatal flaw with the current Paris system. There has to be a "consequence" of getting a standby pass for the attraction or else everyone in the park will get one if its available. An easy consequence is only holding 1 standby pass at a time, and increasing the number of attractions using a standby pass.

Without standby pass the "consequence" of getting into a long line is being stuck in that long line and not riding anything else in that time.

It's the same reason RotR essentially has a 5+ hour long virtual queue when the parks opens at 9am, but Flight of passage rarely tops 2.5 hours. There is no trade off to getting in the RotR VQ.

 

[DisneyDodo]

It's the same reason RotR essentially has a 5+ hour long virtual queue when the parks opens at 9am, but Flight of passage rarely tops 2.5 hours. There is no trade off to getting in the RotR VQ.

Exactly my thoughts!

This is how RotR boarding groups work, which is why it's such a disaster. Disney should not allow guests holding a RotR BG to ride any other attraction. This would prevent all the BGs from going in 10 seconds. Instead, guests would grab several hours worth, then demand would slow, as guests wouldn't want to tie themselves up for the rest of the day. Over the course of the day, guests would slowly and steadily reserve the remaining BGs. This would work exactly the way a physical line does, except for the fact that you don't have to be standing in a physical line for hours! And the guests without BGs wouldn't get stuck in line for other attractions behind people with them.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

These are valid concerns. In terms of your last point, the rule really should be that you can't ride anything while holding a Standby Pass - if all of those people just get into other lines, it kind of defeats the purpose. There are things in the parks that operate at less than maximum capacity (e.g. many shows, walk-throughs, play areas, etc.) Ideally, that is where these guests would end up. Or, for the longest lines, out of the park entirely (e.g. at the hotel). But of course, that wouldn't jive with Disney's real goal - they want the restaurants and shops to be packed.

So if you get a Standby Pass but you're return time is 3 hours away, you have to spend the next 3 hours in the park without riding anything? That's a bad system - and one that also requires extra CMs to scan Magic Bands/Apple Watches/tickets for every guest getting in line to make sure nobody is violating the rule of not standing in line for anything while waiting for their Standby Pass return time.

 

[flynnibus]

So if you get a Standby Pass but you're return time is 3 hours away, you have to spend the next 3 hours in the park without riding anything? That's a bad system

You ride all the stuff that doesn't require a standby pass.... that has a normal standby line or your paid FP.

- and one that also requires extra CMs to scan Magic Bands/Apple Watches/tickets for every guest getting in line to make sure nobody is violating the rule of not standing in line for anything while waiting for their Standby Pass return time.

And uhh... how do you expect them to police the standby pass return... if not checking for some token you were assigned?

The idea of standby pass is you get a digital token, just like you did with FP. You return later and get your token acknowledged and you enter the line.

 

[skypilot2922]

I think that is the fatal flaw with the current Paris system. There has to be a "consequence" of getting a standby pass for the attraction or else everyone in the park will get one if its available. An easy consequence is only holding 1 standby pass at a time, and increasing the number of attractions using a standby pass.

Without standby pass the "consequence" of getting into a long line is being stuck in that long line and not riding anything else in that time.

It's the same reason RotR essentially has a 5+ hour long virtual queue when the parks opens at 9am, but Flight of passage rarely tops 2.5 hours. There is no trade off to getting in the RotR VQ.

The consequence is the standby pass costs money, probably more money as line gets longer to discourage adding to the line

 

[UNCgolf]

The consequence is the standby pass costs money, probably more money as line gets longer to discourage adding to the line

The standby pass doesn't cost money. It's separate from the paid FP+.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

You ride all the stuff that doesn't require a standby pass.... that has a normal standby line or your paid FP.




And uhh... how do you expect them to police the standby pass return... if not checking for some token you were assigned?

The idea of standby pass is you get a digital token, just like you did with FP. You return later and get your token acknowledged and you enter the line.

The post I quoted said the system should be that if you have a Standby Pass then you can't ride anything else while holding that pass. My point was that such a system could leave people waiting for hours without being able to ride anything. My second point was that under the proposed "no other rides while holding a Standby Pass" rule, every ride would need CMs checking to see if you have a Standby Pass for another ride before allowing you to join the line regardless of whether or not the ride is using the Standby Pass system.

Example: You have a Standby Pass for 7DMT that's 3 hours from now on a busy day and want to ride Haunted Mansion while you wait for your 7DMT return time. Haunted Mansion isn't using the Standby Pass system, so you go to join the physical queue. However, because the rule proposed by the other poster was that you can't ride anything else until you use your 7DMT Standby Pass (or, presumably, cancel the pass in the app if you decide not to wait that long), then you are breaking the rule by joining the Haunted Mansion's physical queue. The only way to stop that would be to have a CM stationed at Haunted Mansion for the purpose of scanning tickets/bands to make sure you aren't currently holding a Standby Pass for another attraction. Not only does this scenario force Disney to staff extra CMs to do a previously unnecessary job, but it could crowd the entrance to attractions as people have to stop and scan in at every ride regardless of whether they are joining the Standby or FP line, and such a system would be bad for guest satisfaction as people would surely be confused about why they can't ride anything at all until their Standby Pass is used (creating even more crowding and confusion at the ride entrance as people argue with the CMs). People can only spend so much time and money eating and shopping, so if they can't ride anything while waiting for their Standby Pass return time then Disney would see some pretty angry customers.

 

[flynnibus]

he post I quoted said the system should be that if you have a Standby Pass then you can't ride anything else while holding that pass.

Such a concept is bone headed and would never be used - agreed. Why would anyone optionally choose to lock themselves out of doing something. People would just not get a standby pass period - Not gonna happen.

 

[DisneyDodo]

So if you get a Standby Pass but you're return time is 3 hours away, you have to spend the next 3 hours in the park without riding anything? That's a bad system - and one that also requires extra CMs to scan Magic Bands/Apple Watches/tickets for every guest getting in line to make sure nobody is violating the rule of not standing in line for anything while waiting for their Standby Pass return time.

How is that different than now? If the line for 7DMT is 3 hours, while you wait on the queue, you can't ride anything else for the next 3 hours. The difference is that you would at least be able to things that aren't rides (e.g. eat, shop, use the restroom, sit on a bench, walk around, etc.)

 

[DisneyDodo]

Such a concept is bone headed and would never be used - agreed. Why would anyone optionally choose to lock themselves out of doing something. People would just not get a standby pass period - Not gonna happen.

How is that different than now? If the line for 7DMT is 3 hours, while you wait on the queue, you can't ride anything else for the next 3 hours. The difference is that you would at least be able to things that aren't rides (e.g. eat, shop, use the restroom, sit on a bench, walk around, etc.)

 

[flynnibus]

@DisneyDodo no one is going to put themselves into ride jail... let it go.

 

[DisneyDodo]

@DisneyDodo no one is going to put themselves into ride jail... let it go.

You make 0 sense. People put themselves in "ride jail" every time they get in line. You're literally suggesting that if a Disney employee walked over to the person in the back of the FoP line and said "feel free to go hang out in the park for a bit and come back when it's your turn to ride - just don't ride anything else in the meantime," they would throw a fit and decide to skip FoP.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

How is that different than now? If the line for 7DMT is 3 hours, while you wait on the queue, you can't ride anything else for the next 3 hours. The difference is that you would at least be able to things that aren't rides (e.g. eat, shop, use the restroom, sit on a bench, walk around, etc.)

Because now you have the option of saying, "3 hours is too long so I'll just ride some other things and come back later when the wait time is more reasonable." If a ride were to switch to Standby Pass mode, there's a chance that it will stay in that mode for the rest of the day so you're faced with choosing between taking the Standby Pass to ride that 1 ride - but nothing else in the meantime - or skipping it altogether so you can ride other things. And don't forget, every second that you spend deciding what to do is another second that other guests are taking up those Standby Passes and getting earlier return times than you so you better make a decision quick or you might have the choice made for you by the lack of available Standby Pass times. What a relaxing way to spend your vacation!

 

[flynnibus]

You make 0 sense. People put themselves in "ride jail" every time they get in line.

And people also see the line as making progress to the goal. They also don't have to face walking past everything and being denied. "out of sight, out of mind". While in line, they are on purpose, on track, in flight to a goal.

While there is 'freedom' in not being in line, to have that freedom and then be denied from doing the majority of things is a psychological barrier you don't face while in line. The proverbial "Water, water everywhere, / Nor any drop to drink"

People would hate it.

Also for the same reason most people don't get in line FOR THREE HOURS. The standby return (like FP return) can be much longer than your typical line wait.

The reason people tolerated deferred returns with FP is because they weren't in such ride jails.

You're literally suggesting that if a Disney employee walked over to the person in the back of the FoP line and said "feel free to go hang out in the park for a bit and come back when it's your turn to ride - just don't ride anything else in the meantime," they would throw a fit and decide to skip FoP.

Yup - once they learned it was 3hrs (to keep the example going) and realized they exhausted what they wanted to do. Once people eat, they don't keep eating... once they get bored of sitting they want to do something else... etc.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Because now you have the option of saying, "3 hours is too long so I'll just ride some other things and come back later when the wait time is more reasonable." If a ride were to switch to Standby Pass mode, there's a chance that it will stay in that mode for the rest of the day so you're faced with choosing between taking the Standby Pass to ride that 1 ride - but nothing else in the meantime - or skipping it altogether so you can ride other things. And don't forget, every second that you spend deciding what to do is another second that other guests are taking up those Standby Passes and getting earlier return times than you so you better make a decision quick or you might have the choice made for you by the lack of available Standby Pass times. What a relaxing way to spend your vacation!

I'm still failing to see the difference. If the wait for a ride you want to experience is 3 hours, your options are either to get in line or come back later whether there's Standby Pass or not. And every second that you spend deciding what to do now is a second that other guests can be getting in the standby queue.

StandbyPass or not, the number of people visiting the park is the same, and the ride capacity is the same. There will be the same number of people on rides, and the same number of people not on rides, regardless of whether this system exists. What would change is what the people in the latter camp are doing - under the current system, they stand and wait; with SBP, they could do a lot more. You're claiming that if "a lot more" doesn't include riding other rides, they would somehow be worse off than they are now, standing and waiting.

 

[DisneyDodo]

And people also see the line as making progress to the goal. They also don't have to face walking past everything and being denied. "out of sight, out of mind". While in line, they are on purpose, on track, in flight to a goal.

While there is 'freedom' in not being in line, to have that freedom and then be denied from doing the majority of things is a psychological barrier you don't face while in line. The proverbial "Water, water everywhere, / Nor any drop to drink"

People would hate it.

Also for the same reason most people don't get in line FOR THREE HOURS. The standby return (like FP return) can be much longer than your typical line wait.

The reason people tolerated deferred returns with FP is because they weren't in such ride jails.



Yup - once they learned it was 3hrs (to keep the example going) and realized they exhausted what they wanted to do. Once people eat, they don't keep eating... once they get bored of sitting they want to do something else... etc.

If your argument boils down to "waiting in line is good," then we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I am certainly operating under the assumption that it's not.

 

[flynnibus]

If your argument boils down to "waiting in line is good," then we'll just have to agree to disagree here. I am certainly operating under the assumption that it's not.

I never said 'waiting in line is good' - so no fear there! I said being allowed to wander a theme park for 3 hours but not ride anything is what people would hate. There is a difference - if you can't figure that out, then you should study behavior a bit more.