FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[networkpro]

What was posted wait time was and what the actual wait time was were/are often two different numbers, particularly once things reopened after the shutdown. I can't tell you how many lines we got in during a March trip where the posted time was 33-50% higher then the actual wait, and that was with all park passes gone for the week. That included 7DMT.

The removal of the FLIC card kicked the wait times into the realm of pure fantasy.

 

[EOD K9]

I love the Universal system. We always stay at the Portofino so we get free fast pass.

I make sure to wear my tuxedo when I go to the park... and look at the peasants in disgust as I ride MiB for the 10th straight time.

Do you wear the top hat and monocle?

 

[AMDPhenomX4]

It doesn't. It's a myth that's out in the community for no good reason, IMO.

The FP+ system was built and yes it's repurposed for park reservations, but bolting on a FP+ with park reservations make it seem like we sending a rocket to Mars.

The code has been done and can be repurposed.

They also are still running the servers for it so it's not even dead there.

 

[Mousse']

Honest opinions. What do you feel the reaction would be if Disney copied Universals completely?

Deluxe hotels grant you unlimited fast passes per day.
Then for the rest, you had the option to say increase your ticket per day by 50 bucks to get 1 fast pass per ride. Or 85 per day to get unlimited.

I like it a lot, but I’d rule out the $85 option as I’d imagine doing so would logistically make the standby still reasonable, and once a day seems fair and reasonable. It also seems like a nice premium for the deluxes, and anecdotally I suspect generally deluxe guests aren’t likely ride rerider maniacs.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don’t think the person who posted that about WDW in the 70’s was making that up about the long waits of rides back in the days long before FP. You say “only seemed that long” ummm no they were LONG - I can remember waiting over an hour minimum for many of the MK rides in the 80’s and 90’s. The introduction of FP changed that dramatically. Has the evolving FP+ system been flawed in past years? Yeah probably. But what system like that is ever perfect? Has FP improved the quality of a WDW vacation for many many families? Absolutely. You say someone could just go back several times a day and not have those long wait times. Wrong. The major attractions in summer have continuously LONG wait times all day long hence the need for a FP or forget about riding it. And more importantly- why keep having to come back if you can get a FP in advance of your trip? If the MaxPass/FP/other types of passes are terrible ideas, why does every single theme park have them? Maybe Disney needs to tweak FP+ or revamp it but getting rid of it all together- I don’t see that happening

The 70's only had one park for all. In 82 Epcot opened and eased the problem a little. I went just about every year from 1983 through that decade and unless it was a big or brand new attraction it had no hour long lines. And now they are even longer. If FP doesn't cause more problems why did they decide that recent new attractions did not have FP at opening. At any rate, whatever, the line length was it was made worse by Fastpass for many people. The few that you could get were more then canceled out by the FP barge in front system. It hasn't changed a damn thing for families. If you use any of the attractions without a FP then you are giving that saved time right back. There is no external prize for getting out first. There is a cost though and that is some of the elaborate queues that were missed as you flew by have now been abandoned. Look, neither of us know what they are going to do, but I refuse to be a Debbie Downer when I have experience both and know the difference. If they decide to drop it, you will then have a choice to make. You either get to buck up and find a way to accept it or stay away. That is you right. But, you accusing me of lying by implying that I am accusing someone else of lying really shouldn't be happening. What say we just stop this crap and wait and see what they do.

 

[hopemax]

Is there any possibility that the reason they are dissolving the old FP+ system is to prolong visits? With FP+, you can do 10 rides a day in a park. Without it, that is not possible and depending on the time of year, you might only be able to do 5.

If they go with the Max Pass model, that won't be so bad. However, I cannot find information on whether the $15 per ticket/per day is for ONE ride or as many as you can reserve using the system. Could someone please answer that?

If someone hasn't answered yet, it was "as many as you can." Which for the DL version of "gaming the system"... You made one for Indiana Jones and one of two things would happen. 1. You ride 2. The ride would inevitably go down, and then automatically converted to an anywhere FP, and then you go ride Space Mountain instead.

Because, if you wanted Space Mountain, directly, the next time available would be too far out, and you didn't want to tie up your FP options for that long.

 

[steve2wdw]

Old school Disney here (I'll be 60 in July), and I'm hoping that FP is dead. Yes, I waited in lengthly lines in the mid 70's (we always came during Presidents Week), but, the lines always moved, and wait times were exaggerated so that guests always felt, "hey, that 45 minute wait was only 30", so psychologically, you beat the system. A moving line also prevents damage to the queue, as guests aren't stuck in one spot, picking at the wallpaper, or carving initials into the woodwork. It also brings back some of the spontaneity that made visits to WDW a lot of fun. Maybe you planned on which attraction to sprint to at rope drop, but after that, it was all a great big adventure. I've visited three times since FP+ has been unavailable, all 8 day trips, and each was far more relaxing than any trip in the last decade. I didn't even mind having to choose which park I wanted to visit each day, as realistically, that was the only BIG decision that had to be made. I understand many have never experienced Disney without FP or FP+ until recent events have benched it, but in my opinion, I find Disney an overall better experience without it. I should add that the many guests I talked with (while in line) agreed that the lines were far more pleasurable, even if longer than a FP line.

 

[hopemax]

What was the dispatch interval? Or better the ORC vs the THRC?

That's the other part of this, that people don't understand. Mine Train shouldn't be the insanity it is. If it opened with no Fastpass, it would have had long lines at the beginning because it was new. People would have gone through the evaluative process and determine, it's a cute ride, but extremely short and more appropriate for kids and that they, personally, didn't need to ride it every trip. Just like people did for Barnstormer, or Dumbo or Astro Orbiter. People would recognize the lower capacity vs the other big rides and then decided, correctly, the wait wasn't worth it. And they would tell their friends. It would be, "If your kid is just getting into coasters, it's a good one to start with, but if you're on your honeymoon, don't worry about it."

Instead, it opened with FP+ and because of the low capacity, became impossible to book. Then everyone screamed, "You have to get a FP, and you have to do it on your 4th or 5th day of your trip, because your 1st three days it will be totally booked!!!!!" It developed this mystique that it's a "must-do" that is persisting because people are so used to the waits being so bad. But the wait was driven by the Fastpass difficulties and not the satisfaction level of the attraction. If Mine Train were to remain Fastpass free for years, IMO it would eventually reach an equilibrium wait time below what it is currently getting. But it will not happen immediately because people have a sort of PTSD about the ride and it's unavailability that will take time to unwind. I can't count the number of times I've heard people get off and express dismay with the level of commitment required to ride, for something that is so short. Rise of the Resistance, OTOH, does not seem to have this issue.

 

[MJM]

The 70's only had one park for all. In 82 Epcot opened and eased the problem a little. I went just about every year from 1983 through that decade and unless it was a big or brand new attraction it had no hour long lines. And now they are even longer. If FP doesn't cause more problems why did they decide that recent new attractions did not have FP at opening. At any rate, whatever, the line length was it was made worse by Fastpass for many people. The few that you could get were more then canceled out by the FP barge in front system. It hasn't changed a damn thing for families. If you use any of the attractions without a FP then you are giving that saved time right back. There is no external prize for getting out first. There is a cost though and that is some of the elaborate queues that were missed as you flew by have now been abandoned. Look, neither of us know what they are going to do, but I refuse to be a Debbie Downer when I have experience both and know the difference. If they decide to drop it, you will then have a choice to make. You either get to buck up and find a way to accept it or stay away. That is you right. But, you accusing me of lying by implying that I am accusing someone else of lying really shouldn't be happening. What say we just stop this crap and wait and see what they do.

And if they keep FP or some form of it which I imagine they will, then you will have to do the same. There are the people who utilized FP and saved oodles of time by not standing around and those who didn’t. I was one who did and I hope to see it again in whatever form it takes. I’m willing to pay for it - if it comes to that. There will always be people who disagree with you and that’s ok. No one called you a liar so relax. You aren’t always going to like someone else’s opinion of something you aren’t a fan of but that’s ok too. I’m never going to be convinced FP should be done away with entirely because I’ve experienced WDW with and without it. I knew how to get those major attraction FPs and I want to be able to do it again in the future for my kids. I’m entitled to feel however I choose about it and so are you

 

[WDWTrojan]

When all is considered (food, merchandise, hotel rooms), I'm willing to bet that the average AP user still exceeds $100 per day. Whatever the number is, it's going to be lower than your day guests but the breadth of guest per day costs are necessary to hit the 2019 attendance numbers.

Chapek has already said publicly APs are not profitable to the company.

 

[Jedijax719]

If they adopt the Universal system, then I am personally for it. Of course that is because we want to stay at the Wilderness Lodge if we go again.

 

[MJM]

Old school Disney here (I'll be 60 in July), and I'm hoping that FP is dead. Yes, I waited in lengthly lines in the mid 70's (we always came during Presidents Week), but, the lines always moved, and wait times were exaggerated so that guests always felt, "hey, that 45 minute wait was only 30", so psychologically, you beat the system. A moving line also prevents damage to the queue, as guests aren't stuck in one spot, picking at the wallpaper, or carving initials into the woodwork. It also brings back some of the spontaneity that made visits to WDW a lot of fun. Maybe you planned on which attraction to sprint to at rope drop, but after that, it was all a great big adventure. I've visited three times since FP+ has been unavailable, all 8 day trips, and each was far more relaxing than any trip in the last decade. I didn't even mind having to choose which park I wanted to visit each day, as realistically, that was the only BIG decision that had to be made. I understand many have never experienced Disney without FP or FP+ until recent events have benched it, but in my opinion, I find Disney an overall better experience without it. I should add that the many guests I talked with (while in line) agreed that the lines were far more pleasurable, even if longer than a FP

I would’ve found that highly enjoyable and pleasurable too, being that Disney has been at 25-35% capacity since reopening last summer. Of course the lines are moving quickly- 1/3 (or less) of the usual amount of people were there with you in the parks in your last 3 aforementioned visits. There was no need for FP+. That is rapidly increasing said the Mouse himself. Capacity won’t be that low the next time you or I visit WDW. So get ready to wait in longer SB lines or get yourself a FP if that’s implemented and available again. I know which of those options I’m going to choose

 

[WDWTrojan]

I would’ve found that highly enjoyable and pleasurable too, being that Disney has been at 25-35% capacity since reopening last summer. Of course the lines are moving quickly- 1/3 (or less) of the usual amount of people were there with you in the parks in your last 3 aforementioned visits. There was no need for FP+. That is rapidly increasing said the Mouse himself. Capacity won’t be that low the next time you or I visit WDW. So get ready to wait in longer SB lines or get yourself a FP if that’s implemented and available again. I know which of those options I’m going to choose

As others have explained, yes the number of people in the overall park is reduced but so too is the the available capacity for guests. With so much closed, from shows to restaurants, and limited (not seating the entire vehicle), the lines have been as if the actual guest count was higher.

 

[MJM]

As others have explained, yes the number of people in the overall park is reduced but so too is the the available capacity for guests. With so much closed, from shows to restaurants, and limited (not seating the entire vehicle), the lines have been as if the actual guest count was higher.

I can understand that perception. However adding 65% more people into a park is going to dramatically change that. I don’t see how it wouldn’t. Sure, reopening more dining and entertainment options will spread out the capacity some but 65% is still a lot more people

 

[MisterPenguin]

Chapek has already said publicly APs are not profitable to the company.

I think I would have remembered that being a thing. Do you have a link?

 

[hopemax]

Another thing is, from the *perspective of the standby line*, there is no difference between a seat being unavailable due to COVID protocols or it is being filled by someone from the Fastpass line.

Obviously, if you had a Fastpass and now you can't, there is a huge difference. But for a representative standby rider 2019 vs now it's not that different. So if the ride is currently operating at 50% capacity and the ride has a normal capacity of 2000 people/hr, you could load an additional 1000 people/hr without affecting the standby wait when going to full capacity.

If park capacity increased from 25,000 to 50,000, those additional 25,000 people would be spread out throughout the park, on all the attractions, shows, character meet & greets, dining, shopping, bathroom breaks, or just walking around. So there's no guarantee that 1000 people more per hour would go to that particular ride at a particular hour.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I think I would have remembered that being a thing. Do you have a link?

it was in a shareholder/investor/something meeting a few quarters ago. He basically said they prefer day guests over APs because day guests spend more

 

[MisterPenguin]

it was in a shareholder/investor/something meeting a few quarters ago. He basically said they prefer day guests over APs because day guests spend more

"Not as profitable" is different from "not profitable."

 

[castlecake2.0]

"Not as profitable" is different from "not profitable."

Gotcha

 

[hopemax]

Also, to expand on my post from above. Let's take Mine Train. Right now they are boarding every row. So we've got two lines. One is standby, one is Fastpass. Right now the Fastpass line is empty, so every person boarding has to come from the standby line. And as mentioned, the wait time is 50-90 minutes.

Let's say tomorrow, Fastpass becomes magically available. 50-80% of the seats now have to go to Fastpass people. What happens to the wait in the standby line?

It depends on where the Fastpass people come from, right? If you give the people in standby a Fastpass, they switch physical lines, but they still get boarded all the same.

Now, what happens if you give all the Fastpasses to people NOT in the standby line? So the standby has exactly the same people, but now you have a 2nd line who are boarded at a rate of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 or 4 to 1?

In reality, it's a mixture. But also in reality, the people who have no tolerance for a 50-90 minute line are the ones more motivated to claim a Fastpass. So the second situation, doesn't just happen, it happens frequently. Standby doesn't shrink as much, and if you were okay with waiting 90 minutes, you'd also likely be okay with waiting 100 minutes...