FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[homerdance]

Yes you spend more of your money at Disney... but you don't GET more money to spend at Disney by going more often. If you have 10k worth of vacation budget... maybe Disney gets 75% instead of 50% of your budget by you going 3 times instead of 1.

But if your same three visits were replaced by a non-AP.... so you have 3 groups, each with a 10k worth of yearly vacation budget... this is why 'fresh meat' is more attractive than repeat visitors when it comes to spending.

It’s more like this, we spend $10,000 on a 8 day vacation, that’s it we don’t spend anything else at WDW. But when we buy APs we spend more on tickets, so that is $11,000 (round numbers). Plus we go two more times we are spend is much, much less. So overall they are still getting more of my money. When we don’t get APs, spend that extra vacation money on other parks (localish).

 

[flynnibus]

It’s more like this, we spend $10,000 on a 8 day vacation, that’s it we don’t spend anything else at WDW. But when we buy APs we spend more on tickets, so that is $11,000 (round numbers). Plus we go two more times we are spend is much, much less. So overall they are still getting more of my money. When we don’t get APs, spend that extra vacation money on other parks (localish).

The point is... its more than 'your money' that counts. The more often an AP goes... the lower the return for Disney Verse a fresh visitor each time.

APs are more loyal, and will do things like spend more, buy collectibles, etc... but in the grand scheme of things... the big money comes in the volume of 'people having their blowout vacation' and splurging because they are on vacation. The repeat visitor doesn't splurge like it's their only chance to be there...

This is why the repeat visitors are good for filler - they are easier and cheaper to attract back - but you're not going to get a 'once in a lifetime' spend out of an AP each trip. While fresh meat will spend like that.. and they don't need to do it multiple times, because they get more fresh meat tomorrow...

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

The point is... its more than 'your money' that counts. The more often an AP goes... the lower the return for Disney Verse a fresh visitor each time.

APs are more loyal, and will do things like spend more, buy collectibles, etc... but in the grand scheme of things... the big money comes in the volume of 'people having their blowout vacation' and splurging because they are on vacation. The repeat visitor doesn't splurge like it's their only chance to be there...

This is why the repeat visitors are good for filler - they are easier and cheaper to attract back - but you're not going to get a 'once in a lifetime' spend out of an AP each trip. While fresh meat will spend like that.. and they don't need to do it multiple times, because they get more fresh meat tomorrow...

I don't think this is true.

Most one-timers don't binge-spend when they go to WDW; most try to do WDW as inexpensively as possible. They stay offsite, or MAYBE at a WDW value resort. They scoff at the idea of spending $800/night on a hotel room, or $50 on breakfast. They only plan to go once, so they see no reason to invest heavily in Disney paraphernalia.

The people who are buying Dooney and Bourke pocketbooks and collecting crystal castles are are the folks who REALLY love everything DISNEY! They go once a year or so, so they KNOW the culture of WDW. Mostly, the people dressing their daughters in princess gowns are doing so because they know that is a THING at WDW. People look into buying AP only AFTER they are addicted to frequent returns. AP's are how they rationalize their addiction.

I have bene a forum member for quite some time, and answered many first-timers' questions. A few plan character meals every day, but most want to keep trip costs as low as possible.

Repeat visitors on the other hand, remember the excitement of their first trip, and they want to experience that same high again. So they buy an AP...and keep upgrading their way to "new" experiences. Maybe if they have the newest lightsaber, and wear the newest Cherry Lane Dress while eating at Cali Grill it will be as thrilling as their first trip down Splash Mountain!

As for how that is relevant to FP+, I'm not 100% sure. Some first timers know to use FP, some don't. I suspect though, when things like 9/11, the economic crash, and the pandemic hit- and one-timer people are scared to travel, WDW is glad local AP holders keep coming. I've watched this boom/bust cycle for some time, not just WDW. People's willingness to travel is fickle.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't think this is true.

Most one-timers don't binge-spend when they go to WDW; most try to do WDW as inexpensively as possible. They stay offsite, or MAYBE at a WDW value resort. They scoff at the idea of spending $800/night on a hotel room, or $50 on breakfast. They only plan to go once, so they see no reason to invest heavily in Disney paraphernalia.

people gripe but they pay it… because they are on vacation. They don’t just walk away.

fanatics can’t beat the sheer scale of numbers.

 

[Tim Lohr]

So is there any "actual info" on this? I'm not reading 37 pages of "theories, opinions, and guesses"

 

[runnsally]

So is there any "actual info" on this? I'm not reading 37 pages of "theories, opinions, and guesses"

You’re missing out…27 is a real page-turner

 

[Touchdown]

As stated at the beginning multiple insiders have confirmed it’s not coming back as is, there will be major changes, but what that is is in doubt still.

 

[mikejs78]

They aren't adding 65%. The parks never reach full capacity, or anywhere close to it, except maybe 1 or 2 days a year.

Let's say that full capacity, for the sake of argument, at a park is 100k people. And let's say that on an average day, about 60000 people attend (I've heard this number used). And let's say that right now, capacity is capped at 35000 (I've also heard this number.). Now, to **increase** capacity by 65%, that would be off of current capacity. So 35000+(35000*.65), which is 57,750, close to the 60k that was average daily attendance before. So yes, increasing current park capacity by 65% is completely plausible.

 

[Disone]

That’s not in the plan(s) I’m aware of.

Bummer. Such a great way to add value to those very expensive Resort stays

 

[matt9112]

Bummer. Such a great way to add value to those very expensive Resort stays

Why do they want to add value? Yall already fill them up lol if occupancy isn't an issue why do they need to attract you more?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Why do they want to add value? Yall already fill them up lol if occupancy isn't an issue why do they need to attract you more?

Smoke and Mirrors. It just makes you not question the value because it appears that a lot is being done to maintain that.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Let's say that full capacity, for the sake of argument, at a park is 100k people. And let's say that on an average day, about 60000 people attend (I've heard this number used). And let's say that right now, capacity is capped at 35000 (I've also heard this number.). Now, to **increase** capacity by 65%, that would be off of current capacity. So 35000+(35000*.65), which is 57,750, close to the 60k that was average daily attendance before. So yes, increasing current park capacity by 65% is completely plausible.

I think there's a misunderstanding. They could add 65% to the average attendance of the last few months. The earlier post I was referring to seemed to believe that Disney was going to back to 100% capacity and didn't realize the park rarely hit that. It rarely goes above 65% of actual capacity.

 

[Disone]

Why do they want to add value? Yall already fill them up lol if occupancy isn't an issue why do they need to attract you more?

In this case I was speaking more from a personal perspective than from Disney's business perspective. It would add tremendous amount of value to me when I pay to stay at the resorts.

But from a business perspective they did recently cut whole whole bunch of benefits of staying at a Disney hotel. Airline check-in gone. Magical Express gone. Free parking at the resort gone. It would be nice to add some value back that has been removed and Fastpass can do that

 

[GaBoy]

In this case I was speaking more from a personal perspective than from Disney's business perspective. It would add tremendous amount of value to me when I pay to stay at the resorts.

But from a business perspective they did recently cut whole whole bunch of benefits of staying at a Disney hotel. Airline check-in gone. Magical Express gone. Free parking at the resort gone. It would be nice to add some value back that has been removed and Fastpass can do that

We can only vote with our wallets and the vote is overwhelmingly in favor of diminished experience. I dont have enough time in with the parks to value my vacations through a lens of what was. They can break it for me. I haven't been back since the reopening. I am afraid that I won't return unless what I left last February, isn't largely back. And that is coming from someone whom Walt had a heavy influence upon and shaped a childhood while watching him Sunday nights introduce his magic on NBC.

 

[aaronml]

The site that can’t be named just posted about a recent Disney patent application (US Patent Application 20210150421) for Dynamic Management of Virtual Queues. It seems interesting and a lot of what it describes is similar to what has been rumored / discussed on this site recently.

 

[havoc315]

The site that can’t be named just posted about a recent Disney patent application (US Patent Application 20210150421) for Dynamic Management of Virtual Queues. It seems interesting and a lot of what it describes is similar to what has been rumored / discussed on this site recently.

Was about to post about it.

Sounds like something that could be worked into the Genie app.

Though I wonder to what extent this “dynamic” line management is really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Fact is, WDW doesn’t have sufficient ride capacity. Better line management may add a little more efficiency in crowd distribution, but it doesn’t actually resolve the underlying issue.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

Was about to post about it.

Sounds like something that could be worked into the Genie app.

Though I wonder to what extent this “dynamic” line management is really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Fact is, WDW doesn’t have sufficient ride capacity. Better line management may add a little more efficiency in crowd distribution, but it doesn’t actually resolve the underlying issue.

Especially now with people eaters like shows and character meet and greets not happening.

 

[jt04]

Something like this can help fill venues like CoP, Tiki, CBJ, HoP and others by nudging guests towards those atttractions when they are less than full.

Of course upgrading or reimagining them can have the same effect.

Virtual queues would be an improvement.

 

[Jedijax719]

In this case I was speaking more from a personal perspective than from Disney's business perspective. It would add tremendous amount of value to me when I pay to stay at the resorts.

But from a business perspective they did recently cut whole whole bunch of benefits of staying at a Disney hotel. Airline check-in gone. Magical Express gone. Free parking at the resort gone. It would be nice to add some value back that has been removed and Fastpass can do that

Airline check in at the resorts is gone too?

It is seeming like making a WDW vacation plan is becoming almost impossible. Either they are planning much easier ways of doing things as we speak or WDW is going to be losing guests at a time when they should be attracting more. There's only so much they can rely on the "well people will still come and spend money no matter what we take away" mindset.

Mind you, it's not about any one thing being removed. It's the accumulation of things. Moreso, it becomes a matter of trust as well. If A,B, C, and D are gone, who is to say that by the time you go, they will remove W,X, Y, and Z as well, thus forcing you to rearrange your entire trip. Trying to plan a trip a year or even six months in advance only to find out that much of what you planned will not be in place makes this hardly worth the effort.

That is why logic dictates that they are replacing all of these removed perks with things that are even better and easier to use and cheaper to the company.

 

[orky8]

Airline check in at the resorts is gone too?

It is seeming like making a WDW vacation plan is becoming almost impossible. Either they are planning much easier ways of doing things as we speak or WDW is going to be losing guests at a time when they should be attracting more. There's only so much they can rely on the "well people will still come and spend money no matter what we take away" mindset.

Mind you, it's not about any one thing being removed. It's the accumulation of things. Moreso, it becomes a matter of trust as well. If A,B, C, and D are gone, who is to say that by the time you go, they will remove W,X, Y, and Z as well, thus forcing you to rearrange your entire trip. Trying to plan a trip a year or even six months in advance only to find out that much of what you planned will not be in place makes this hardly worth the effort.

That is why logic dictates that they are replacing all of these removed perks with things that are even better and easier to use and cheaper to the company.

They have done the calculas that the amount of guests they might lose is offset by the cost savings. Your logic is intuition based on guest experience and a company that is trying to attract customers, their "logic" is backed by a spreadsheet and the notion that one problem they suffer is too much demand for their product.