FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[RSoxNo1]

APs pay nowhere near $100 per day which I imagine is the biggest argument against their return within the company. See DL.

I don't think we can quantify the effect on the bottom line from knowing exactly how many guests will be in the park on a day to day basis. Especially with the impending increases in labor costs and inflationary pressures. Even our best magical experts are on the outside looking in.

Let's see if they keep the reservation system after 2022.

When all is considered (food, merchandise, hotel rooms), I'm willing to bet that the average AP user still exceeds $100 per day. Whatever the number is, it's going to be lower than your day guests but the breadth of guest per day costs are necessary to hit the 2019 attendance numbers.

 

[pdude81]

When all is considered (food, merchandise, hotel rooms), I'm willing to bet that the average AP user still exceeds $100 per day. Whatever the number is, it's going to be lower than your day guests but the breadth of guest per day costs are necessary to hit the 2019 attendance numbers.

And non-local APs are important for word-of-mouth advertising. You don't want them all being ed off and telling people that it's a rip off to spend that kind of money on regular tickets, or that it's not worth it to go there anymore. DL I think had a much higher share of local AP's and people who would drop in for a few hours. In Orlando you have to spend time just navigating their property to get to a park.

 

[MJM]

Only seemed long based on the FP experience. But, the long wait was voluntary. They could go back many different times of the day and not have that long a wait. That mostly happened at Rope drop. Dumbo can't be used as an example. At the time it had fewer "Dumbo's" and it was one of very few little kid rides available.

I don’t think the person who posted that about WDW in the 70’s was making that up about the long waits of rides back in the days long before FP. You say “only seemed that long” ummm no they were LONG - I can remember waiting over an hour minimum for many of the MK rides in the 80’s and 90’s. The introduction of FP changed that dramatically. Has the evolving FP+ system been flawed in past years? Yeah probably. But what system like that is ever perfect? Has FP improved the quality of a WDW vacation for many many families? Absolutely. You say someone could just go back several times a day and not have those long wait times. Wrong. The major attractions in summer have continuously LONG wait times all day long hence the need for a FP or forget about riding it. And more importantly- why keep having to come back if you can get a FP in advance of your trip? If the MaxPass/FP/other types of passes are terrible ideas, why does every single theme park have them? Maybe Disney needs to tweak FP+ or revamp it but getting rid of it all together- I don’t see that happening

 

[Jedijax719]

I can't imagine that lines would be shorter if FP were eliminated. For one, all the people who would have used FP would be on SB lines. Second, I don't see how the line would move faster. Sure, all occupants would come from the SB line, but the rides wouldn't be shorter and there would potentially be more people in those lines.

But again, that is the hypothetical situation where there is no FP or any version of that. I think most of us can agree there will be some version of it (considering every park has its version of it). Another model to look at is Sea World "quick queue".

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

It wouldn't be a couple hundred -- everyone would pay that and defeat the system. It has to be prohibitively expensive. Universal is a couple hundred, per person, per day.

Yes, if you do it the wrong way.

Looking at June Unlimited Express pass is $270 - 340 per person per day, which is crazy!

On the other hand, a hotel room at Portofino 6/29 = $514, Hard Rock = $619.
[YIKES! Almost ALL of the onsite Universal hotel rooms are COMPLETELY booked of all of June!]

At first glance $600 seems crazy, and it is, but...if you have 4 people per room, and figure ANY hotel would be at least $100/night, AND 1 night onsite = 2 days of Express Pass...2 nights = 3 days.

So $514 - $100 = $414, and $414/4 = $103.5 so IF you have 4 people, then you are effectively getting 2 days of Express Pass for $104 per person ($51/day each) or with a 2 night stay you'd be paying about $70 per person per day.

Looking to mid-August: RP = $355, HRH = $393, Porto = $372/night. Express Pass runs $160/day...so then a night at RP, 4people/room = getting 2 days of Express pass for about $64, or $32/each per day.

I am inclined to think WDW could come up with their own way of pairing onsite stays with FP of some kind, maybe tied to specific resorts, or special new 'packages.'

 

[RoysCabin]

Reading a lot of this stuff is making my head spin.

My trips to WDW over the past ten years have happened in 2012 (May), 2013, 2015, and 2019 (those three all closer to August). The only one of those trips where I had to use the FP+ system was 2019, and I can safely say that was the trip where I felt it was the most difficult to really do anything without being hit with a long wait or some kind of inconvenience.

I recognize there are all kinds of reasons for this beyond "FP+ isn't good" (like the aforementioned fact that as of 2019 the parks were much more packed than even in just 2015), but part of what was fun for my '13 and '15 trips was just going on short notice with my girlfriend and feeling like we got to do just about everything we wanted to without much in the way of issues. The '19 trip was a generous gift from my parents (they wanted to bring the whole family so my baby nephew could get his first trip in), but that was our first "need the wristband" trip and involved a whole lot of sitting around at home and trying to get our website accounts onto the same trip, trying to get the system not to confuse my father and I (same first names), and eventually getting to Magic Kingdom on day one and my girlfriend and I losing a whole chunk of our day because despite all the preparation our wristbands still didn't read as containing our park tickets. Been to Disney over two dozen times in my life, and it was easily the least satisfied I've ever been with a trip there.

I contrasted this in my mind with the trip we also took to SoCal in 2017 and getting to use classic FastPass at Disneyland; again, that wound up being a pretty spur of the moment trip, we got there and spent one day at the original park, and got to do the vast majority of what we wanted to in a very full day, getting plenty of rides in.

All of this just plays into WDW increasingly becoming a high cost "destination resort" instead of a more regular vacation. I don't want to plan out what rides I'm going to do before I go; I don't want to have to think about it beyond the basic strategies I've picked up over the years by just attending; I don't want Disney to try and push and prod me into spending my days there doing things the way they want me to do them, e.g. "spend more time in shops and restaurants spending money, please!" or whatever. I recognize that I don't have kids as of yet, which reduces the overall cost of going for me, but I just can't imagine going down there and spending the kind of money I regularly see people bringing up (e.g. the trips my gf and I took in '13 and '15 cost us a little over $1,000 each for flights/hotel/tickets for 4 or 5 day trips), and a system that would then ask me to pay extra to avoid long lines would be another brick on that load making me a lot less likely to return.

Honestly, what really burns me about this? Take all that ridiculous money put into the FP+ and My Magic systems and just build a fifth gate, or else more greatly expand the main four you already have, and you'll fix a lot of the worst congestion problems. Improve the overall guest experience, give people more options, spread the crowds out...but I think the era of putting an experience together that gets families to want to come back year after year after year is quickly being supplanted by one where the emphasis is getting one-time visitors to drop $10,000 a pop or something. The weirdest part is I think the crowds are justifying a move to the latter, which scares me quite a bit.

 

[MJM]

I'd expect it to return as some sort of paid option.

Honestly, with 3 kids under 8, I'll gladly pay for it. We went in March, while the lines weren't terrible, we simply couldn't do everything we wanted to because we didn't want to/didn't have enough time to wait 90+ minutes for Tower of Terror, Mine Train, etc. That was also at reduced capacity, a full capacity crowd with no fastpasses seems like torture and a complete waste of money.

If I'm already dropping $6k+ on tickets and hotel, what's another couple hundred to make sure we get the most out of our time there.

I hear ya. I feel the exact same way for our upcoming scheduled trip for this Aug. If lines were that long back in March 2021 at 35% capacity, this Aug sounds delightful without FP

 

[MJM]

That was kinda the point of the no FP example. Yes, to day you might have a 2 hour wait because of the influence that FP has on standby length, but without out it the thing might have the potential for a 2 hour wait, but the fact is that you wouldn't. You would wait until later when that wait wasn't as long. Now, with FP, if you want to see it you have to get in that line like it or not because if you didn't get in it and you don't have a fastpass you just wouldn't get to see it. And the numbers you are using is the opposite. Standby lines that are two hours now is because of FP without that they wouldn't be any longer then you would be willing to stand in. You would pass it and come back later, no specific time, just when it was less. What would be a 2hr standby with FP's influence would be probably 1 hour at worst. But, you could skip it until later without and penalty.

The thing is though is that your examples aren’t based on reality. In March of this year MK was at 35% capacity and the line for 7Drawfs was consistently 90 mins! There was no FP line affecting that wait time. And the parks are increasing capacity as I type. None of what the FP naysayers say makes any sense in regard to the major attractions at WDW. There has to be a way to FP those major attractions or people simply aren’t going to keep coming back in the future. Again, all theme parks offer something like a FP so why would Disney do away with theirs entirely? It’s not going to happen. There will be something - it’s only a matter of time. What that looks like is anyone’s guess right now

 

[WDWTrojan]

I can't imagine that lines would be shorter if FP were eliminated. For one, all the people who would have used FP would be on SB lines. Second, I don't see how the line would move faster. Sure, all occupants would come from the SB line, but the rides wouldn't be shorter and there would potentially be more people in those lines.

But again, that is the hypothetical situation where there is no FP or any version of that. I think most of us can agree there will be some version of it (considering every park has its version of it). Another model to look at is Sea World "quick queue".

Lines are objectively shorter without FP. It redirects people to attractions they otherwise might not ride. Then they pull 80% of the riders from FP, leaving standby to crawl.

 

[WDWTrojan]

The thing is though is that your examples aren’t based on reality. In March of this year MK was at 35% capacity and the line for 7Drawfs was consistently 90 mins! There was no FP line affecting that wait time. And the parks are increasing capacity as I type. None of what the FP naysayers say makes any sense in regard to the major attractions at WDW. There has to be a way to FP those major attractions or people simply aren’t going to keep coming back in the future. Again, all theme parks offer something like a FP so why would Disney do away with theirs entirely? It’s not going to happen. There will be something - it’s only a matter of time. What that looks like is anyone’s guess right now

This also doesn’t take into account capacity restrictions on the rides.

 

[Chomama]

Also with fast pass you are effectively in two lines at once. The one you are physically in and the one where your spot is being held by a FP. I am very interested to see wait times once physically distancing and cleaning are eliminated

 

[Andrew M]

This also doesn’t take into account capacity restrictions on the rides.

But 35% attendance with say 50% ride capacity is the equivalent of 70% attendance at full ride capacity.

Between the 50th Anniversary and people being tired of staying home during the Pandemic, I wouldn't be surprised if the parks are absolutely packed from October 1st right though til New Years. There's barely any hotel availability for a any 5 night stay from October through December.

 

[marni1971]

If the option were to completely go away

That’s not what’s being said.

 

[marni1971]

the line for 7Drawfs was consistently 90 mins!

What was the dispatch interval? Or better the ORC vs the THRC?

 

[marni1971]

so why would Disney do away with theirs entirely?

That’s not what’s being said.

 

[UNCgolf]

This also doesn’t take into account capacity restrictions on the rides.

And the fact that other attractions that would also keep people busy and away from ride lines aren't open at all.

 

[Jenny72]

What was the reasoning to keep letting people get additional FPs once they had used up the first three? That's the part that seems to lend itself to "gaming the system," which is great for some individuals (including me) but not as useful for Disney or less clued-in guests. And Disney never seemed to really push this aspect, even encouraging you to book something at night with the 3 FP+ suggestions they made and the pre-planned packages they gave out: how about seating for a night show? I'm genuinely asking this question, because it seems to me that if you just limited it to 3, the whole thing would be simpler, less stress on the system, more room for standby lines, etc. Trying to run from one FP to the next doesn't really lend itself to shopping and eating.

Of course, I'm not certain what their overall goals are here. Wait, let me rephrase that. I know their overall goal is $$ but what is their specific strategy and what are the obstacles they see towards making that happen.

 

[cjack300zx]

Here is a question for everyone who stresses out over fasspass how did you handle Rise of The Resistance boarding pass? This seems to be the direction that Disney is going with new rides and I was just curious about how they handled it.

 

[Chomama]

Here is a question for everyone who stresses out over fasspass how did you handle Rise of The Resistance boarding pass? This seems to be the direction that Disney is going with new rides and I was just curious about how they handled it.

Ugh. I loathe it. I have been very successful getting the stupid pas but I do not enjoy it at all

 

[HauntedPirate]

The thing is though is that your examples aren’t based on reality. In March of this year MK was at 35% capacity and the line for 7Drawfs was consistently 90 mins! There was no FP line affecting that wait time. And the parks are increasing capacity as I type. None of what the FP naysayers say makes any sense in regard to the major attractions at WDW. There has to be a way to FP those major attractions or people simply aren’t going to keep coming back in the future. Again, all theme parks offer something like a FP so why would Disney do away with theirs entirely? It’s not going to happen. There will be something - it’s only a matter of time. What that looks like is anyone’s guess right now

What was posted wait time was and what the actual wait time was were/are often two different numbers, particularly once things reopened after the shutdown. I can't tell you how many lines we got in during a March trip where the posted time was 33-50% higher then the actual wait, and that was with all park passes gone for the week. That included 7DMT.