FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes referring to demand, interest and number of visitors for 50th anniversary starting Oct 1st that will drive WDW planning in terms of how to manage crowds that will again to reach capacity.

So full boat 10/1? Bout 600 hotels in Orlando that feed the place...packed this year?

Trips have to be planned a year in advance? perhaps for some folks that is the case or they choose to do so, but for many that's not the case (under 6 months more common-many can do so even closer). I recently booked trip for November, and yes I would like more clarity as to how parks will operate but booked knowing I will likely not get much clarification until this summer or early fall-a few months before trip, due to WDW looking to address operations and crowds with changing and uncertain timeline of pandemic restrictions and issues.

nobody said “have to”...that’s a fairly realistic timeline for the non-religious attendees.
1. Not cheap. It’s not a high end clientele like some dream they are by putting a magic kingdom magnet on the back of their Honda Pilot.
2. People that want to go but aren’t “Disney people” do other things...they are more patient to wait.
3. Planning is as out of whack as it has ever been (ie no 9/11 comparisons, please)

 

[plawren2]

Even on crowded days, provided you get Early Entry and the maintenance gremlins are in a good mood you can still do the major rides at CP with >30 min waits, but you need to know what you’re doing and Early Entry is key (stay on property or have a platinum pass.)

agreed but current 1/2 hr early entry is not really that helpful, full hour was much more beneficial to day planning and maximizing experiencing shows and attractions with minimal wait times/lines

 

[Jedijax719]

There's a limit to what people are going to pay.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's based on tiers, so $x gets you 3 A-C Ticket selections, $y gets you 2 A-C ticket and 1 D-E ticket selection, where $x+y gets you 3 E ticket selections to start the day. Then after the 3 are used it opens up and it's a free-for-all on whatever is left for the people who purchased it.

Make it the same as the old system, first come, first serve. Pay for the whatever tier of rides you want with your ticket, Fastpasses open up at 7am 60 days out.

They could just make it simple:
$50 per day--->5 ride skips
$25 per day--->2 ride skips (makes $50 look better)
$15 per day--->1 ride skip (makes the other packages look better)

Buy with your vacation package that includes on-site stay and you can reserve the rides 60 or 30 days out. Stay off site and you can still buy them but have to reserve the day off (like DL's max pass).

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don’t believe that to be true but then what I consider a long wait might be what you consider not very long. That’s arbitrary and in the eye of the Disney goer. So without FP maybe Space Mountain in July would’ve been an hour as opposed to 2 hrs by 11am? Yeah I’d rather have that FP for space mnt and wait 15 mins. Same with FOP at AK. Face it, FP when used as intended for major attractions beats waiting in those long lines of an hour + Should it be allowed for ALL attractions? No probably not and maybe herein is where the real issue lies. But having a FP option for major attractions is likely not going away. I don’t see how Disney can justify taking that away, but we will see...

That was kinda the point of the no FP example. Yes, to day you might have a 2 hour wait because of the influence that FP has on standby length, but without out it the thing might have the potential for a 2 hour wait, but the fact is that you wouldn't. You would wait until later when that wait wasn't as long. Now, with FP, if you want to see it you have to get in that line like it or not because if you didn't get in it and you don't have a fastpass you just wouldn't get to see it. And the numbers you are using is the opposite. Standby lines that are two hours now is because of FP without that they wouldn't be any longer then you would be willing to stand in. You would pass it and come back later, no specific time, just when it was less. What would be a 2hr standby with FP's influence would be probably 1 hour at worst. But, you could skip it until later without and penalty.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Trips have to be planned a year in advance? perhaps for some folks that is the case or they choose to do so, but for many that's not the case (under 6 months more common-many can do so even closer). I recently booked trip for November, and yes I would like more clarity as to how parks will operate but booked knowing I will likely not get much clarification until this summer or early fall-a few months before trip, due to WDW looking to address operations and crowds with changing and uncertain timeline of pandemic restrictions and issues.

I can say that with DVC, you need to book 11 months out for your home resort or you risk not getting the dates and/or room type you want - especially if you wait until the 7-month mark when people can book resorts other than their own home resort. I could be mistaken, but I believe booking windows for cash rooms open earlier for UK visitors than they do domestically, too, so someone over there might need to book that far out to ensure that they don't miss out on the rooms allotted for those guests.

 

[Andrew M]

FP+ was an operational headache for a variety of reasons. It cost them money to operate and they didn't see the ROI with people spending elsewhere like they expected (people out of lines spending in shops or restaurants was a key driver in creating FP to begin with, but it never proved that fruitful).

And again, if you knew how to game the system right, you could do most of the day with FP+. However, that relied upon people being glued to their phone and accepting whatever FPs happened to be available after the first three. There was no money in that for Disney - you're only going to eat so many meals and buy so many souvenirs, if at all. Plus, on the user end, the minute you step into a standby line, though, you start giving that time back to Disney as it's going to be double what it would be if FP wasn't operating.

At the end of the day, the system was nice to users who gamed the system but to everyone else, including Disney, it was a headache. There was also far too much money left on the table to leave as is forever. COVID gave them a chance to hit reset on many of the things which had become self-created monsters over the years (FP+, DDP, etc).

How does FP+ cost them money to operate? The same CM's are still manning the FP+ lines for DAS passes. I can't imagine the reservation system would take up that much computing power when compared to Disney's massive online reservation system.

However, I agree that 180 days out for ADP and 60/30 days for FP+ had gotten kind of ridiculous, so some sort of reset was definitely needed. Especially once they realized people will readily pay for the service if they had to.

I'm just concerned with park capacity reaching 100% sooner rather than later and pent-up demand to travel, these wait times are going to start becoming unmanageable. I'm not sure I'm going to spend $3k+ on 4 day tickets for a family of 5 if we're going to be spending an hour plus waiting in line for everything, and 2 hours for the big rides. Especially with reduced hours and no EMH, there's simply not enough time to experience enough attractions to make it worth the price of admission.

 

[DisneyHead123]

They aren't going to officially announce FP+ is dead. They're going to slowly roll out other options.

Disney doesn't owe anyone line skipping privileges. It's a theme park - there are lines.

I'm going to politely disagree on this one. They don't have to do FP+ specifically, but at this point, crowd management is at the very least a reasonable expectation for a park as big as Disney, and, if you want to take it a step further, might even be a safety issue.

 

[Goofyernmost]

No, we understand what it is -- a ride rationing system -- and don't like how it has made a trip to WDW more like a WWII campaign than a vacation.

Hell, Eisenhower didn't have this much detail planning D-Day. All he had to watch for was the weather. We don't have to do that anymore because if we chose a Monday for MK it wouldn't matter if there was a Typhoon, that is the day we have to attack.

 

[Incomudro]

Yes exactly again. Why stay on-site when I get free full breakfast and a much larger 2-room suite for $5K less and no loss in benefits. Maybe you should use that as a selling point.

Disney certainly needs FP+ or some form of on-site advantage if they ever want me back on-site. I think most here would agree that SOMETHING is going to happen. But when?

It's getting really hard to justify staying onsite, and Disney did that.
One of the only reasons I'd stay onsite now is for the kids, who are now 19. (my kids, but not kids anymore)
If it was just me, or my wife and I - jeeze, we could save so much money staying off of property.

 

[CastAStone]

Yeah...this is where people misinterpret Disney and fail to go with the obvious

go with the obvious...there’s a date there and an assumed transition period.

some Saturday night between now and 8/16...all of a sudden passes will be for sale on the site.

a good guess is around the mass recall of 20 year old indentured servants and other mass recalls of hourlies in the next month.

They had two separate Traditions classes today of 300 new CMs each.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They had two separate 300 Traditions classes today of 300 new CMs each.

I honestly didn’t know they still bothered with it?

is it a 45 minute webinar now?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Right but the old fastpass system was open to everyone so even MORE than 90,000

I like the idea of fastpass open to only hotel guests. If you still limited the number of fastpasses everyday it wouldn't be 90,000 people with fastpasses to Space Mtn, etc.

I liked the getting the fastpasses 60 days out but that is just me.

Like others mentioned these days we stay at Universal JUST to get the express pass. The first 2 times we went to Universal we went for 1 day from Disney. NOW we go for 2 days at either the begining or end of our trip. Universal got us hooked BECAUSE of the included express pass.

Again, like the current one the system was open to everyone but not the results. When they used up the allotted FP's there were no more. The end, zilch, nota. You still had to show up early enough to be sure you got one and if all 90000 showed up at that same time they would not all get one just the ones closest to the machines.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm throwing in my own prediction, based on nothing and for amusement's sake only. I like placing my bets and then seeing how things actually shake out. So my bet:

- Disney has to tread carefully from a PR perspective. On the one hand the closures were an obvious time to reorganize, on the other, saying "Hurray, we have survived a horrible trauma as a country and now the world's most beloved landmarks are returning to normal! What a wonderful moment to celebrate! FastPasses are gone unless you pay us a bunch of money! Ok yaaaaaay!!" is a terrible look. Exacerbated by the fact that 1.) People are still mad about Magical Express and 2.) Disney is already on thin PR ice after getting thrown into the current culture wars. There's just no way for a move like that not to look really bad. Using a pandemic as a way to add fees to formerly free services at a beloved children's park? I don't see them jumping right into that.

- Disney still wants to charge for those FastPasses. Like a lot. Would bet dollars to donuts the execs have graphs showing projected profit increases that they get out and stare at longingly sometimes.

- There will be a year or two of thinly disguised transition policies to square this particular circle. I would say nighttime and maybe morning separate ticket events for sure, as those can be presented as providing "more" even though in reality they cut park hours. I can see this moving to an almost daily situation over time, where you can buy a second ticket for an ongoing evening 'party'. (I would actually be ok with that if it curbed future ticket price increases a bit - I go with a bunch of littles, no way we can use all the time allotted on a ticket but we still pay for it. For us paying relatively 'less' - in the form of slower price increases - for a shorter day would be a good option.) There will be some kind of feature on the Genie app that is sold as the replacement for FastPasses, but will be easier to phase out over time. A FastPass is a binary thing - you either have it or you don't. I think they'll replace it with something more vague and fuzzy that they can increase or decrease without it being as noticeable, and they'll slowly start adding more and more paid options to it. For example, they could say you get a SuperHappyFunTime app package as part of your ticket, with "new surprises added all the time!". That keeps them from having to specify exactly what any given customer is going to get with a ticket, unlike the "three FastPasses" system.

- I think that they will try to make this a more spontaneous, in-park system, but will receive massive pushback from high-strung moms like myself who Don't. Like. Surprises. (I know, I know, not my best trait, but I am who I am,) and will have to make this a shifting reward system that can still be planned several months out.

- In the somewhat more longterm picture, I see them trying to do more virtual queues, but this will be down the road as that requires a place to put all the people milling about.

No, they don't have to worry about PR. They may someday, but not now. People are hooked on Disney not on Fastpass. Like many other things they have ended, they take a beating for a few days, they will stop answering the phones and then it all passes on and all is forgotten. Most of the core Disney park fans where first exposed pre-FP and they were the most loyal of them all. I like the concept of those early years and the thought that someone doesn't like surprises. In the days preceding the internet every place you had never been too were huge surprises. That's part of what made it fun. If you couldn't tolerate surprise, you stayed home and did nothing.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Nope.

Those of us who don't like FP+ remember what it was like to not have every ride in the park have long lines.

Wait, when was that?

I remember long lines back in the 1970's, and the 1980's when Epcot was new. Way back in the 1970's, HM had an hour+ wait mid-day. And when Space Mtn was the newest ride!?! Phew! The afternoon wait was 2+ hours. Dumbo had crazy waits in that era, and even the carousel had longer waits than today.

Even CBJ used to be packed. When the holding area was full, CM's wouldn't let anyone else enter. they'd stand at the entrance with a clicker. You had to wait until they cleared the holding area. It has been a long time since I have seen that happen, but it happened regularly in the 1970's.

And in the early days, Imagination drew crazy long waits!

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm going to politely disagree on this one. They don't have to do FP+ specifically, but at this point, crowd management is at the very least a reasonable expectation for a park as big as Disney, and, if you want to take it a step further, might even be a safety issue.

FP does absolutely nothing to control crowds. All it does is make getting to one attraction a little quicker. The crowds will still be there. The only thing that they have ever introduced that might control crowd numbers in individual parks is the park reservation system. And that just moves the crowds to less busy parks creating crowd problem in the ones that didn't have that problem before.

 

[Jedijax719]

Disneyland and Universal have programs that allow line-skipping. There's no indication that WDW will throw away this option. Just like with ME, they will come up with something different.

If the option were to completely go away, there would be a LOT of people who just don't go. If everyone had to wait on long lines no matter what, attendance would go down. Sure, that would eventually make lines shorter but at the expense of having guests at all.

I still don't understand why FP+ was not a good idea. I haven't read any rationale for the dislike. If it is because of people wanting to be spontaneous and resent toward those who have FP's, that's a choice. Nobody is forcing anyone NOT to use FP.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wait, when was that?

I remember long lines back in the 1970's, and the 1980's when Epcot was new. Way back in the 1970's, HM had an hour+ wait mid-day. And when Space Mtn was the newest ride!?! Phew! The afternoon wait was 2+ hours. Dumbo had crazy waits in that era, and even the carousel had longer waits than today.

Even CBJ used to be packed. When the holding area was full, CM's wouldn't let anyone else enter. they'd stand at the entrance with a clicker. You had to wait until they cleared the holding area. It has been a long time since I have seen that happen, but it happened regularly in the 1970's.

And in the early days, Imagination drew crazy long waits!

Only seemed long based on the FP experience. But, the long wait was voluntary. They could go back many different times of the day and not have that long a wait. That mostly happened at Rope drop. Dumbo can't be used as an example. At the time it had fewer "Dumbo's" and it was one of very few little kid rides available.

 

[WDWTrojan]

I'm going to politely disagree on this one. They don't have to do FP+ specifically, but at this point, crowd management is at the very least a reasonable expectation for a park as big as Disney, and, if you want to take it a step further, might even be a safety issue.

Again, they operated for 30+ years without FP. They were fine, even on “sold out” days.

On average the parks are 15-20% busier now than then. So assuming they don’t continue to limit capacity, they will need some solution, but they don’t need FP+.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Disneyland and Universal have programs that allow line-skipping. There's no indication that WDW will throw away this option. Just like with ME, they will come up with something different.

If the option were to completely go away, there would be a LOT of people who just don't go. If everyone had to wait on long lines no matter what, attendance would go down. Sure, that would eventually make lines shorter but at the expense of having guests at all.

I still don't understand why FP+ was not a good idea. I haven't read any rationale for the dislike. If it is because of people wanting to be spontaneous and resent toward those who have FP's, that's a choice. Nobody is forcing anyone NOT to use FP.

We honeymooned at WDW during the Food & Wine festival in October of 2000. If we waited more than 30 minutes for anything during our 11-day trip, FP or not, I'd be stunned. It was THE most relaxed and enjoyable Disney trip we've ever had.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Disneyland and Universal have programs that allow line-skipping. There's no indication that WDW will throw away this option. Just like with ME, they will come up with something different.

If the option were to completely go away, there would be a LOT of people who just don't go. If everyone had to wait on long lines no matter what, attendance would go down. Sure, that would eventually make lines shorter but at the expense of having guests at all.

I still don't understand why FP+ was not a good idea. I haven't read any rationale for the dislike. If it is because of people wanting to be spontaneous and resent toward those who have FP's, that's a choice. Nobody is forcing anyone NOT to use FP.

FP+ was not good for a variety of reasons. It created bloated standby lines at rides that would otherwise not have had them. There are zero practical reasons why anyone needed to plan their days out months in advance. They also expected people to spend while not in line, but they did not.