FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[MagicHappens1971]

Chapek has already said publicly APs are not profitable to the company.

I don’t think he said they’re “not profitable“, and also, I think that this board has some misconstrued perception of what APs spend. Yes a good amount of APs are Orlando locals or Florida residents that opt out of staying at a Disney resort because they don’t need the transportation. But APs are still spending money in the parks on food, and drinks, and I’d argue that in a calendar year APs are spending more money on, merchandise, food and especially adult beverages, (F&W, F&G, etc). Of course at face value, someone who would be buying an AP buying several multiple day tickets throughout the year brings in more money, but on the flip side, those would be APs probably aren’t buying several multiple day tickets, they’re probably just not going, and Disney is loosing revenue in the F&B and merch departments on that accord. This is just from my perspective

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don’t think he said they’re “not profitable“, and also, I think that this board has some misconstrued perception of what APs spend. Yes a good amount of APs are Orlando locals or Florida residents that opt out of staying at a Disney resort because they don’t need the transportation. But APs are still spending money in the parks on food, and drinks, and I’d argue that in a calendar year APs are spending more money on, merchandise, food and especially adult beverages, (F&W, F&G, etc). Of course at face value, someone who would be buying an AP buying several multiple day tickets throughout the year brings in more money, but on the flip side, those would be APs probably aren’t buying several multiple day tickets, they’re probably just not going, and Disney is loosing revenue in the F&B and merch departments on that accord. This is just from my perspective

1. The board generally isn't involved in the details of park pricing. They may get a report to which they can provide feedback, but I highly doubt that some CEO of some other company sitting on Disney's board is going over in fine detail the spending habits of APers and second guessing those reports.

2. Disney knows very well what APers are spending. They have the data and full time analysts to derive that information.

3. The "AP problem" is mostly in reference to Disneyland, which has already announced the end of their AP program to more of a Loyalty Program (i.e., reduced prices for being part of the club). There's been no buzz about ending WDW's AP program. New APs are on temporary suspension at WDW while the reduced capacity COVID protocols are in place.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

1. The board generally isn't involved in the details of park pricing. They may get a report to which they can provide feedback, but I highly doubt that some CEO of some other company sitting on Disney's board is going over in fine detail the spending habits of APers and second guessing those reports.

2. Disney knows very well what APers are spending. They have the data and full time analysts to derive that information.

3. The "AP problem" is mostly in reference to Disneyland, which has already announced the end of their AP program to more of a Loyalty Program (i.e., reduced prices for being part of the club). There's been no buzz about ending WDW's AP program. New APs are on temporary suspension at WDW while the reduced capacity COVID protocols are in place.

I agree with what you’re saying, by “this board” I was referring to the people on this forum and I probably should’ve made that more clear.

 

[TrojanUSC]

I can understand that perception. However adding 65% more people into a park is going to dramatically change that. I don’t see how it wouldn’t. Sure, reopening more dining and entertainment options will spread out the capacity some but 65% is still a lot more people

They aren't adding 65%. The parks never reach full capacity, or anywhere close to it, except maybe 1 or 2 days a year.

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

The removal of the FLIC card kicked the wait times into the realm of pure fantasy.

FLIK cards were removed from attractions pre-COVID and wait times are monitored via a combination of long range MagicBand readers as well as cameras.

The only reason wait times may be projected higher since reopening is due to the social distancing greatly affecting those existing systems that were fine tuned to have all available space in the queue and vehicle seats mostly filled.

 

[pdude81]

I thought given the difficulty of accurately gauging waits they may have been slightly disincentivizing das passes. You might wait slightly longer but not have to be in lines. Plus people don't complain to guest services that the line was 10 min shorter than expected

 

[Goofyernmost]

And if they keep FP or some form of it which I imagine they will, then you will have to do the same. There are the people who utilized FP and saved oodles of time by not standing around and those who didn’t. I was one who did and I hope to see it again in whatever form it takes. I’m willing to pay for it - if it comes to that. There will always be people who disagree with you and that’s ok. No one called you a liar so relax. You aren’t always going to like someone else’s opinion of something you aren’t a fan of but that’s ok too. I’m never going to be convinced FP should be done away with entirely because I’ve experienced WDW with and without it. I knew how to get those major attraction FPs and I want to be able to do it again in the future for my kids. I’m entitled to feel however I choose about it and so are you

In the words of Elsa... please let it go. Whatever we get, we get. I've tried to explain what has been happening and why and you don't want to hear it, so like me you will have to deal with whatever they come up with or find a new hobby.

 

[rk03221]

I used to work attractions and FP+ was always such a pain. Good concept but terrible execution

 

[RobbinsDad]

Old school Disney here (I'll be 60 in July), and I'm hoping that FP is dead. Yes, I waited in lengthly lines in the mid 70's (we always came during Presidents Week), but, the lines always moved, and wait times were exaggerated so that guests always felt, "hey, that 45 minute wait was only 30", so psychologically, you beat the system. A moving line also prevents damage to the queue, as guests aren't stuck in one spot, picking at the wallpaper, or carving initials into the woodwork. It also brings back some of the spontaneity that made visits to WDW a lot of fun. Maybe you planned on which attraction to sprint to at rope drop, but after that, it was all a great big adventure. I've visited three times since FP+ has been unavailable, all 8 day trips, and each was far more relaxing than any trip in the last decade. I didn't even mind having to choose which park I wanted to visit each day, as realistically, that was the only BIG decision that had to be made. I understand many have never experienced Disney without FP or FP+ until recent events have benched it, but in my opinion, I find Disney an overall better experience without it. I should add that the many guests I talked with (while in line) agreed that the lines were far more pleasurable, even if longer than a FP line.

I understand the yearning for simpler times at WDW, but technology never retreats, only adjusts and advances. As soon as they deem it plausible some sort of ride reservation system will return. The one thing we can hope for is that it's not so complicated and doesn't require months of planning in advance. Don't get me wrong, I like to plan, but FP+ was even too much for me.

 

[dreday3]

Has anyone been watching the posted waits lately? Slinky Dog is already at 90 minutes, Avatar 70 minutes, Safari 75 minutes. Reports have been also that the actual wait times now seem to be meeting the posted wait times.

I hope by the time full capacity is reached that if not some kind of pass system, at least more rides will have virtual queues so you don't have to physically stand in multiple lines for 90 minutes.

 

[plawren2]

I can say that with DVC, you need to book 11 months out for your home resort or you risk not getting the dates and/or room type you want - especially if you wait until the 7-month mark when people can book resorts other than their own home resort. I could be mistaken, but I believe booking windows for cash rooms open earlier for UK visitors than they do domestically, too, so someone over there might need to book that far out to ensure that they don't miss out on the rooms allotted for those guests.

Sure, but DVC is an unique situation, that advance booking makes sense, but does not apply to the vast majority of WDW visitors

 

[UNCgolf]

I can understand that perception. However adding 65% more people into a park is going to dramatically change that. I don’t see how it wouldn’t. Sure, reopening more dining and entertainment options will spread out the capacity some but 65% is still a lot more people

It's not going to be that much of an increase, though. It might be close to that short-term because of backed up demand, but WDW almost never reaches 100% capacity. The parks being capped at 35% doesn't mean it's only 35% of a typical day; it might be 90% of a regular day at certain times of the year.

 

[UNCgolf]

1. The board generally isn't involved in the details of park pricing. They may get a report to which they can provide feedback, but I highly doubt that some CEO of some other company sitting on Disney's board is going over in fine detail the spending habits of APers and second guessing those reports.

The CEO of Disney almost certainly isn't doing that either.

I've mentioned it here several times before, but most people have a very skewed perspective of what a CEO actually does. They're nowhere near as involved in regular operations as people tend to think.

 

[Jrb1979]

Why don't they just close the refresh loophole? Everyone gets 3 a day and that's it.

 

[nickys]

I can understand that perception. However adding 65% more people into a park is going to dramatically change that. I don’t see how it wouldn’t. Sure, reopening more dining and entertainment options will spread out the capacity some but 65% is still a lot more people

They won’t be adding 65% more people. 100% capacity is just that - the park is full. No one else can enter, which has happened something like 5 times in total.

On NYE for example the park will fill to fairly near capacity. So much so that the only people still allowed in are WDW resort guests and those with ADRs or BBB reservations. Day visitors are redirected to Epcot or maybe AK. But after a couple of hours enough people have exited that the restrictions are lifted.

So 35% is more like half, or just under half the normal crowds for most of the year.

 

[homerdance]

"Not as profitable" is different from "not profitable."

We have had APs on and off for the last 10 years, and I can say that the years we have APs, we spend more money at Disney. We aren't local, but when we have APs we do multiple trips in a year, so instead of 1 8 day trip in Florida, we do 1 8 trip and 1 or two trips where we spend upwards of 4/5 days in Florida. Granted not all time is spent at WDW, but we spend more money total at Disney, even though our per day spend might be lower.

 

[MisterPenguin]

We have had APs on and off for the last 10 years, and I can say that the years we have APs, we spend more money at Disney. We aren't local, but when we have APs we do multiple trips in a year, so instead of 1 8 day trip in Florida, we do 1 8 trip and 1 or two trips where we spend upwards of 4/5 days in Florida. Granted not all time is spent at WDW, but we spend more money total at Disney, even though our per day spend might be lower.

The numbers are different certainly for people like you and me who are out of state and the APs are more cost efficient if we go several times a year and spend a week in the resorts and restaurants compared to locals who pop in for fireworks. The latter was way more of a problem for Anaheim.

 

[DisneyNittany]

We absolutely LOVED FP+, but I completely understand those who loathed it.

We didn't really get into WDW as a vacation spot until 2015, so we have no comparison point for time before FP+ (I went as a kid when it was the FP system and have been to DLR), but FP+ just worked so well for how we liked to vacation in the World.

We are morning people, so we'd get our FP+ for the rides we wanted each day between the 10a-2p time frame, and then get to the parks early to knock out some attractions before crowds got there, then we'd have our 3 FP+ attractions, then it was meal/pool/nap time, followed by going back to parks at night.

Before we became APs, all of our trips were ~10 day trips, so we really didn't have problems with getting FP+ for every ride we wanted. When we did become APs, we were there so often that it didn't matter if we missed an attraction during a trip, because we'd just knock it out next time.

Again, I understand why there are those who hated it, but they worked out so well for us and how we enjoyed WDW.

With that said, I won't shed a tear if it doesn't come back and will at least give the new system a chance. If it makes our trips less enjoyable, then there's always other places for us to visit and spend our money. Life goes on.

Lastly, we enjoy park-hopping, so there was still some spontaneity because we'd just essentially spin the wheel once we were out of our initial 3 FP+ and many times would end up with a solid FP+ at another park.

 

[DisneyNittany]

The numbers are different certainly for people like you and me who are out of state and the APs are more cost efficient if we go several times a year and spend a week in the resorts and restaurants compared to locals who pop in for fireworks. The latter was way more of a problem for Anaheim.

I have no clue what the numbers look like, but rather than getting rid of it completely, it would seem to make more sense to make the Florida Resident AP more expensive than the base AP prices.

I'm like you guys, in that when I have an AP, I'm spending way more money because I'm going to WDW for two big trips and 3-4 small ones, and since I'm a sucker for the bubble still, I'm staying onsite and I'm spending, baby.

Now that we have a kid, our plan was to get APs every other or every two years, and in between we'd knock out different places. So, if Disney wants to keep me handing over my money to them, I really hope they keep offering the AP option.

 

[flynnibus]

We have had APs on and off for the last 10 years, and I can say that the years we have APs, we spend more money at Disney. We aren't local, but when we have APs we do multiple trips in a year, so instead of 1 8 day trip in Florida, we do 1 8 trip and 1 or two trips where we spend upwards of 4/5 days in Florida. Granted not all time is spent at WDW, but we spend more money total at Disney, even though our per day spend might be lower.

Yes you spend more of your money at Disney... but you don't GET more money to spend at Disney by going more often. If you have 10k worth of vacation budget... maybe Disney gets 75% instead of 50% of your budget by you going 3 times instead of 1.

But if your same three visits were replaced by a non-AP.... so you have 3 groups, each with a 10k worth of yearly vacation budget... this is why 'fresh meat' is more attractive than repeat visitors when it comes to spending.