FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How is this a steal? A party of 4 for 5 nights. That's 180 dollars a day x 5 days is 900 dollars. Do you understand you are asking a guest who is paying thousands of dollars to pay an extra 900 dollars to be able to skip some lines when they never had to in advance? That would be the last time they would be back for many. 900 dollars to walk onto 3 rides a day for 5 days? Let that sink in. It ain't happening. Too many people stay more than 4 or 5 nights. The theme park tickets are already paid for.

You didn’t detect a note of sarcasm?

 

[MisterPenguin]

In the case of a company like Disney, upper level executives and the BoD.

If you were a mid-level executive and told to conduct a survey to see what guests think of the possibility of paid fastpasses, knowing full well that this is what the upper levels want...would you allow the survey results to prove them wrong and be the one stuck delivering bad news?

Every survey I've ever read that was conducted by Disney has been chock full of bias and loaded words...which should be avoided at all costs if the purpose of the survey is to get anything close to real results.

So.. there are mid-level managers who, rather than talking to their supervisors, grab one of the professional polling analysts and scheme with them to create a poll so that people are led into agreeing with the thing that this mid-level manager wants, and based on that alone, the Bobs have signed off on those projects.

And no one who's ever been in on these ploys, even after they've left the company, have fessed up to that?

And this has been going on company-wide in almost all facets of park management for decades?

Ok...

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Not the same. FP+ was allocated weeks prior... this system has things allocated to people in the park 'now'.

You gonna tell anyone with a straight face "Just drop your 3 FP+ reservations day of, you can get all new ones all the same" with a straight face?

No, of course you wouldn't just drop the FastPasses you had all at once and look for new ones. You would modify the selections that you wanted to change and see if there were better rides or times for you. The worse case scenario is you don't find a better option and keep the choices you have, thus still assuring you of 3 selections. If you have to book while in the park and can only book 1 at a time then you aren't guaranteed the same number of selections. You might get more, you might get less. Either way, your wallet is lighter than it was when you entered the park - or you're not spending money somewhere else in the park that you otherwise would have.

Those holdouts will be a tiny group. In the heat of the battle... people will pay. Same way everyone pays the ridiculous food prices, the parking, etc.

If the holdouts are a tiny group then that's even worse for the ones who pay since the availability of FastPasses will be about the same as it was when they were free, so you're not going to have any better chance at getting that 2nd or 3rd Tier 1 pick in Epcot and don't even dream of getting 2 Tier 1 picks in Hollywood Studios outside of a rare lucky day. And, once again, by the time you add up all of your selections for the day you're paying through the nose for what used to be free. So the holdouts lose because they're stuck on long lines all day and the people paying lose because they're paying for what used to be free and aren't getting a better experience for it (sorry @Sirwalterraleigh ).

 

[Hugh Jazz]

All speculation for now. I would be ok paying extra (somewhat) for our next trip, but I want to book it in advance. If you are going to charge me for it, I should know in advance what I can get for my money. Not a crapshoot when I get in the gate.

 

[pdude81]

So is all of this just speculation because of the announcement of the PAris parks new FP system?

Well this thread started in May and picked up where other rumor and information threads left off regarding the possibility of paid fastpass or something similar to maxpass coming to WDW. Unless you just mean the flood of information in the past couple days. If so then yes.

 

[flynnibus]

This business model of “I’m going to make you pay twice for something I’m only going to give you once” is something completely insulting to every customer.

But that's not what they are doing - they are selling a line skip, not selling you admission twice.

 

[mightynine]

So.. there are mid-level managers who, rather than talking to their supervisors, grab one of the professional polling analysts and scheme with them to create a poll so that people are led into agreeing with the thing that this mid-level manager wants, and based on that alone, the Bobs have signed off on those projects.

And no on who's ever been in on these ploys, even after they've left the company, have fessed up to that?

And this has been going on company-wide in almost all facets of park management for decades?

Ok...

There's no "scheme". The company writing the questions and answer selections can use leading words, certain phrasing and whatever else they can think of to try and push the poll-taker to a certain answer.

The polling analysts are paid to put the questions in front of people, and then throw out the extreme answer on either ends and give a median result. If the company has put forward the right questions, they'll get the answers they were hoping for.

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm guessing that Disney does this work in-house rather than pay a third party.

As an aside, you can't possibly be this dense in real life.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But that's not what they are doing - they are selling a line skip, not selling you admission twice.

What if the queue is closed to said line?

 

[MisterPenguin]

There's no "scheme". The company writing the questions and answer selections can use leading words, certain phrasing and whatever else they can think of to try and push the poll-taker to a certain answer.

The polling analysts are paid to put the questions in front of people, and then throw out the extreme answer on either ends and give a median result. If the company has put forward the right questions, they'll get the answers they were hoping for.

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I'm guessing that Disney does this work in-house rather than pay a third party.

As an aside, you can't possibly be this dense in real life.

Dense is missing the point of my questions.

I know how polling works.

I was questioning the existence of a supposed conspiracy to cook the questions to get the answers they want as was purported in this thread, and quite often in this fora. Basically asking, "Who is the survey for? Who is reading it and, based on the results, making decisions? And who are these mid-level people intentionally cooking the questions to manipulate the person reading the results? And how have they gotten away with this scheme of manipulation for so long without someone blowing the whistle?"

 

[aliceismad]

Easy — COVID. This pandemic had a significant financial impact on the parks, and clearly has emboldened leadership to take bigger risks that could potentially bring in more revenue, including getting rid of free FP.

I doubt they would have even gotten rid of free FP (which used to coexist with DPA) at SHDL if not for COVID.

Except that they've been working on Genie since before covid.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Dense is missing the point of my questions.

I know how polling works.

I was questioning the existence of a supposed conspiracy to cook the questions to get the answers they want as was purported in this thread, and quite often in this fora. Basically asking, "Who is the survey for? Who is reading it and, based on the results, making decisions? And who are these mid-level people intentionally cooking the questions to manipulate the person reading the results? And how have they gotten away with this scheme of manipulation for so long without someone blowing the whistle?"

You do know they have their own polling company, right?

it’s under “Disney research” and covers a lot of ground…including data mining.

 

[flynnibus]

No, of course you wouldn't just drop the FastPasses you had all at once and look for new ones. You would modify the selections that you wanted to change and see if there were better rides or times for you. The worse case scenario is you don't find a better option and keep the choices you have, thus still assuring you of 3 selections. If you have to book while in the park and can only book 1 at a time then you aren't guaranteed the same number of selections. You might get more, you might get less. Either way, your wallet is lighter than it was when you entered the park - or you're not spending money somewhere else in the park that you otherwise would have.

The comment was "Anyone happy about the rumored new system allowing them the flexibility to choose what to do while already in the parks already had that flexibility with FP+ for free"

These things are not the same and your elaboration just further proves the point. At best you could shop to try to find alternatives, but we already know the vast majority of desirable capacity was gone weeks ago. Someone shopping for FP+ at 60days is not equal to the person shopping real-time in the park. Someone shopping against real-time availability is not the same as someone shopping against availability committed weeks ago.

If the holdouts are a tiny group then that's even worse for the ones who pay since the availability of FastPasses will be about the same as it was when they were free, so you're not going to have any better chance at getting that 2nd or 3rd Tier 1 pick in Epcot and don't even dream of getting 2 Tier 1 picks in Hollywood Studios outside of a rare lucky day.

Again.. comparing very unequal things.
1) The comment was in response to people who will object to pay out of principal - Those are the holdouts.. and they will (for the most part) cave. There will always be hermits or 'old man yelling at cloud'... but the majority will adapt to the situation they are in, and they aren't going to run their vacation into the ground purely on principal.
2) You are overlooking at FP+ before consisted of people getting 3-6+ experiences with no outlay. In the new world, you could easily have people willing to pay for 1-2, but not 3-6+. That means there are likely going to be less usage then FP+. Yes, the headliners will still face the saturated demand... but where that saturation point is is going to depend a whole lot on the price point. FP+ saturation only depended on crowds.

I'm of the opinion that Disney KNOWS a line-skip is one of their most valuable assets - I don't see anyway Disney lets that be under-priced in the market to the point it's always sold out.

 

[mightynine]

Dense is missing the point of my questions.

I know how polling works.

I was questioning the existence of a supposed conspiracy to cook the questions to get the answers they want as was purported in this thread, and quite often in this fora. Basically asking, "Who is the survey for? Who is reading it and, based on the results, making decisions? And who are these mid-level people intentionally cooking the questions to manipulate the person reading the results? And how have they gotten away with this scheme of manipulation for so long without someone blowing the whistle?"

Again, you're trying to make it seem like this is flowing upward.

Leaders want to do X, and they want to say they have polling that shows their customers want X when they talk to CNBC or Wall Street or whatever. So they tell mid-level person at polling to go get them that data.

I'm not missing the point of your question, the problem is that you're asking the wrong ones. As usual.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I see the rest of the resorts now have opening dates.
I get the feeling the FP announcement is now not far behind.
Maybe I'm nuts for thinking they have anything to do with each other but I do lol.

 

[ne4now]

Rarely are people excited by going number 2

I disagree. Me and my 2 boys were quite excited to come across the "Tangled Restrooms" when our iced coffees kicked in the morning after our ohana dinner.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

I disagree. Me and my 2 boys were quite excited to come across the "Tangled Restrooms" when our iced coffees kicked in the morning after our ohana dinner.

Tangled bathroom is always our first one at MK. We usually do PP, IASW, and then pee before heading to HM lol.

 

[dreday3]

I see the rest of the resorts now have opening dates.
I get the feeling the FP announcement is now not far behind.
Maybe I'm nuts for thinking they have anything to do with each other but I do lol.

More resorts, more people - I'm hoping that news of more restaurants opening with better hours comes sooner than fast pass news!

 

[jpinkc]

Dense is missing the point of my questions.

I know how polling works.

I was questioning the existence of a supposed conspiracy to cook the questions to get the answers they want as was purported in this thread, and quite often in this fora. Basically asking, "Who is the survey for? Who is reading it and, based on the results, making decisions? And who are these mid-level people intentionally cooking the questions to manipulate the person reading the results? And how have they gotten away with this scheme of manipulation for so long without someone blowing the whistle?"

Uhm you think JD Powers is a reliable source?? To name one. They are experts at the leading questions, to skew a survey to get the answer they are paid to get. Hulu, Audible, Amazon, almost all surveys I get from them are very heavy with weighted questions that dont leave you a way to say you dont like something in a clear and concise manner. ITs all leading questions with carefully chosen responses that dont really allow you to say a true negative.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I see the rest of the resorts now have opening dates.
I get the feeling the FP announcement is now not far behind.
Maybe I'm nuts for thinking they have anything to do with each other but I do lol.

More than likely…and wonder if tickets will be “updated” now as well?

More resorts, more people - I'm hoping that news of more restaurants opening with better hours comes sooner than fast pass news!

I think you could see very limited/modified restaurant hours for some time….maximizing revenue vs overhead

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Uhm you think JD Powers is a reliable source?? To name one. They are experts at the leading questions, to skew a survey to get the answer they are paid to get. Hulu, Audible, Amazon, almost all surveys I get from them are very heavy with weighted questions that dont leave you a way to say you dont like something in a clear and concise manner. ITs all leading questions with carefully chosen responses that dont really allow you to say a true negative.

I always wondered if there are any car makers that ARENT at the top of at least 1 JD powers list?