FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[DisneyMusician2]

If you are talking about the money they spend on maintaining and operating the rides, the definitely do spend money but they rely on their attractions to draw guests into the park. People go to Disney for (in order of priority):

1) go on rides
2) see shows (parades, fireworks)
3) dining
4) characters

Take #1 away.. how many people would go to Disney for the other 3?

I think more than you'd imagine, and you can see with the money being plowed into resort areas Disney feels they might have something to offer as a resort past the 4 major parks. Even some character greetings are moving to the hotels, you can see they're making a calculated bet here.

 

[brettf22]

Another time - temporarily - was back in 2009. for a short period WDW offered this crazy discount package deal:

Guests who buy a four-night/four-day non-discounted Walt Disney Travel Co. Magic Your Way hotel and ticket package for stays most nights from Jan. 4 to April 4, 2009, and April 19 to June 27, 2009, will receive three extra nights of hotel accommodations and three more days added to their theme park tickets for free. As a bonus, guests traveling on this package from Jan. 4 to March 29, 2009, will also receive a free $200 Disney Gift Card.

If you could go to WDW for 7 nights, the room was 43% off, the tickets were each $10 off, and you ALSO got a $200 gift card.

AND, this was also the time they were offering free park admission on your birthday. Alternatively, you could get a "Birthday Fun Card" equal in price to a one day base ticket (which was something like $65 for ages 3-9 back then). This Birthday Fun Card could be used for anything. Add that to the above buy4, get 3 free days, and $200 Gift card (per room) meant we stayed in 2 rooms at Pop Century on our twin's birthday week for approximately $22/night/room

 

[ctrlaltdel]

After reading through the various articles I can't find an answer, but if you have a Standby Pass, can you purchase DPA for a different attraction?

 

[el_super]

Except - leaders always adjust things to try to establish their resume and everyone is looking for change to fuel GROWTH.

The 'its working, don't rock the boat' mentality was abandoned long ago -- especially at Disney with their rotating executive program where they try to cross-breed everyone.

I agree in some respects... but we're talking about an overarching strategy of increasing park utilization/yield that has been in play for 20+ years right? It survived Pressler, and Rasulo and Staggs and at least 5 years of Chapek right?

Fastpass, cheap APs and discount admissions have been the status quo for a long time now. There has to be an underlying factor driving the change now versus years ago when it became very apparent it was a problem.

 

[Daily Magic]

This business model of “I’m going to make you pay twice for something I’m only going to give you once” is something completely insulting to every customer. The problem is that Disney has given this service to us for free very recently and for many of us it is a slap in the face to take it away and then try and charge you for it a year later. No value has been added but they’re asking for more of our money to experience the parks the way we’ve come to expect. That just doesn’t add up.

If however this new system was layered on top of FastPass and allowed you to buy a “front of the line pass” at any time I might be ok with it. People can still wait on any line they want, people get the advantage of planning out several short waits (for free) and then people with money to burn can pay a higher fee to expedite the lines whenever they want. That would keep the status quo and give them their revenue stream they’re looking for.

Simple, lower the amount of available FastPasses allocated per hour and cap Fastpasses at 3 max per day for resort guests, 1-2 for non resort guests, and then allow anyone to buy ala carte FastPasses with the new system on top of the free FastPasses whenever they want. That way when it’s 100 degrees mid day and you’re about to leave to hit the pool but want that one extra ride on Space Mountain you can pay that $10 fee to jump on the ride with minimal wait rather than jump in a 90 minute standby.

I know this is Disney tho and they are focused on the bottom dollar above all else under “Cheap-ek”.

 

[DisneyJoe]

If Disney really wants to reduce wait times and improve Guest satisfaction, build more attractions!

What hourly capacity would these attractions need to have to do this? How many attractions would you need to build? What about the Disney Marketing Machine that would attract massive amounts of guests to these new attractions, yet these guests would still want to experience the existing attractions? This is all assuming that all attractions work at 100% peak efficiency and don't spend hours in a day broken down.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would guess they have a pretty good spending model of a typical resort guest over their length of stay. For example, I usually go for a 10 day stretch, but by the end of those 10 days I'm pretty tired of going to sit down restaurants and I've spent what I want on souvenirs, so I'm pretty 'low spend' the last few days. I suppose if they could kick me out at 6 or 7 days in and fill my room with a fresh new spender, then Disney would generate more revenue from the same on-site room.

Bingo

your talking about trip fatigue. And they are well aware.

in fact…for decades the calculations and products have been designed around how to keep you there the maximum amount of time when you’re still spending full…which has a side effect that’s just as valuable: it’s also the point where you are most likely to return and do it again. Numbers bare that out.

the “sweet spot”

this management is not into that. It’s more “maximum burn”

I could tell stories about this phenomenon…but I won’t.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

I agree in some respects... but we're talking about an overarching strategy of increasing park utilization/yield that has been in play for 20+ years right? It survived Pressler, and Rasulo and Staggs and at least 5 years of Chapek right?

Fastpass, cheap APs and discount admissions have been the status quo for a long time now. There has to be an underlying factor driving the change now versus years ago when it became very apparent it was a problem.

It is the utilization part that is changing. I don't believe the idea is to get MORE guests at this point, it is to change the operational thrust of the parks from volume to controlled experience and yield in other areas. Don't know how its going to play, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more resort-specific non-park related experiences grow during the next few years as well. Just what it looks like to me.

 

[Waters Back Side]

The rides are already there, hoss…and in the case of most of the “new rides”…they dumped old aside and are installing replacements.

Disney sells a lot of nostalgia…including 50 year old rides. They practically live off it now. It would help if they wouldn’t have pooched Star Wars…but whatever.

once you show up, pay $125 a day and $300 for a “moderate”…the rides are “costs”

unless…you now sell individual rides…that’s the ticket
Cha-ching

and now we’re back around to the thread topic. Which I think your hope/optimism is clouding your judgment on.

this is to sell the same stuff at little to no additional cost. It’s what the investors dream of…they are going to tell you this, dressed up be

IMO, Disney is not going to charge their own guests who shelled out all that money to pay for "Its A Small World". ESPECIALLY if they have not been on any other rides for the day. IF they did that it would be an obvious finger to the customer satisfaction portrayal. IF Disney were to block any guests ability to (not really abuse as it worked as designed) to keep scoring free FP's for less desirable rides after they have already been GIVEN 3 that's one thing. This in itself will improve (NOT completely fix) the problem with Standby lines because people will not be so tempted to BUY a fast pass for Haunted Mansion or Pirates' of the Caribbean if priced high enough after they had 3 walk ons for the Mountain rides. They can also COMPLETELY remove Good Neighbor resorts and off site guests from walking into the park and getting the same free passes with DPA as the guests on site. (I'm not excluding Passholders, locals and DVC members either as they deserve free FP's also). Disney will also manage and have complete control of their stand by lines. When a line hits 60 minutes they can easily close the line and give people a chance to enter a queue virtually to return at a later time. Which in itself will mean that ride will never be longer than 60 minutes. ITs about how they distribute and spread out the people.

Whats sad is EVEN if this is the case, some people would STILL COMPLAIN both ways...that they want more, while other complain nobody should get to walk on a ride for free.

Rarely are people excited by going number 2

By shows I also meant festivals, special events etc.

I'm not so sure there will be increased guest satisfaction over paying for the ability to skip 1 long line when previously you could skip that long line + 2 others for free. Even people with money to burn don't like to feel like they were ripped off (at least not the ones who realize they're being ripped off).

There would not be. Imagine a family of 4 paying an extra 150 dollars for 7 days just to go on rides that they went on 3 years ago that lured them back.

 

[aaronml]

I agree in some respects... but we're talking about an overarching strategy of increasing park utilization/yield that has been in play for 20+ years right? It survived Pressler, and Rasulo and Staggs and at least 5 years of Chapek right?

Fastpass, cheap APs and discount admissions have been the status quo for a long time now. There has to be an underlying factor driving the change now versus years ago when it became very apparent it was a problem.

Easy — COVID. This pandemic had a significant financial impact on the parks, and clearly has emboldened leadership to take bigger risks that could potentially bring in more revenue, including getting rid of free FP.

I doubt they would have even gotten rid of free FP (which used to coexist with DPA) at SHDL if not for COVID.

 

[el_super]

The original system is still the best. You just stand in line and wait your turn.

Having a standby only system is probably the most straight forward and simplest solution for the guest. For Disney it has drawbacks though right?

• People hate standing in long lines. (Guest complaints have to be managed).
• Some people can't stand in long lines (ADA accommodations have to be created and managed).
• Queues take up more physical space in the park and building them costs money.
• Queues have to be patrolled (for both custodial and guest control).
• They have to be actively monitored for wait times/guest expectations.
• Queues have to be built in a way to actively manage environmental aspects (shade/misters/AC).
• There's still not a guarantee that you can ride after waiting in a queue (timesink).

For Disney... while they're spending this money to maintain a physical queue of thousands of guests, those guests are standing there not spending money and not gaining any real VALUE in the experience (interactive queues not withstanding).

Fastpass was really designed to solve for these problems, but they have lingered around for years. Flight of Passage is probably the prime example of a standby queue gone terribly awry and that comes to us from the golden age of Fastpass: the point where Fastpass should have been adjusted and corrected over the years and made to run as smoothly as possible.

If Disney really wants to reduce wait times and improve Guest satisfaction, build more attractions!

Improve guest satisfaction ... probably, but not reduce wait times. Usually new attraction openings look like this:

 

[el_super]

Don't know how its going to play, but I wouldn't be surprised to see more resort-specific non-park related experiences grow during the next few years as well. Just what it looks like to me.

DisneylandForward | Anaheim

DisneylandForward is a blueprint to guide development and growth over the next 40 years. As Disney invests, key improvements will be required to address the Resort's growth and minimize impacts.

disneylandforward.com

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Thank you for this perspective. It's going to be alright...

While Disney is in operations to make money (and appease their shareholders), they will need to strike a balance somewhere: improve profitability but not doing something so counteractive to will lead to horrible guest satisfaction.

Disney is pretty bold on distributing surveys on EVERYTHING, if you don't think they simply don't care how something is perceived, your logic is flawed.

We only know the new system in broad strokes, thanks to the insiders here. Yes, the DLP thing is new, but it hasn't been executed yet.

The surveys, if you read them closely and with a critical eye, are built so that the most chosen answers are nearly always predictable and what Disney wants.

 

[hopemax]

Disney has spent so much money on systems that allow them to spend less money on attractions. I wonder if it’s really come out ahead for them.

I think it's an example of Burbank's lack of faith in their own product. Burbank thought there was no growth at Disneyland, until Matt & Greg showed them there was. Burbank thought there was no market for animated musicals until Frozen. Burbank also thought there was no growth in the US theme park business, and I think this is the proof. If Burbank really thought that visitation rates would increase as they did over the last 15 years, I think they would have done things differently. But they didn't believe in the potential for that growth. 20 million at MK is a shock they didn't foresee. Disney got a benefit from WWoP and for a long time they acted as if that bump was temporary. I still think they think this gravy train will end, and so they need to extract what they can while they can.

Disney also has an underlying problem that their new theme park content is mostly not that good. There was a lot of capex spent in the parks, and then there was a lot more capex spent to redo those areas because they weren't well received. Burbank knows this too. The game of musical chairs in some backwards way, led to a more predictable path for what they view as success. Build something that is too small to serve your audience, it doesn't matter if it's actually good. The line itself will convince people it shouldn't be missed, and the lack of being good actually leads to demand for the musical chair options. No one wants to actually wait for Navi or SDMT for the experience, but people are desperate for the queue skipping option to check it off, and now suddenly Disney doesn't have an "underwhelming experience," they have something they can charge for.

 

[onelove8187]

Simple, lower the amount of available FastPasses allocated per hour and cap Fastpasses at 3 max per day for resort guests, 1-2 for non resort guests, and then allow anyone to buy ala carte FastPasses with the new system on top of the free FastPasses whenever they want. That way when it’s 100 degrees mid day and you’re about to leave to hit the pool but want that one extra ride on Space Mountain you can pay that $10 fee to jump on the ride with minimal wait rather than jump in a 90 minute standby.

although I do not want this system... i believe it is very very close to what we will get and certainly better than DLP

 

[Waters Back Side]

This business model of “I’m going to make you pay twice for something I’m only going to give you once” is something completely insulting to every customer. The problem is that Disney has given this service to us for free very recently and for many of us it is a slap in the face to take it away and then try and charge you for it a year later. No value has been added but they’re asking for more of our money to experience the parks the way we’ve come to expect. That just doesn’t add up.

If however this new system was layered on top of FastPass and allowed you to buy a “front of the line pass” at any time I might be ok with it. People can still wait on any line they want, people get the advantage of planning out several short waits (for free) and then people with money to burn can pay a higher fee to expedite the lines whenever they want. That would keep the status quo and give them their revenue stream they’re looking for.

Simple, lower the amount of available FastPasses allocated per hour and cap Fastpasses at 3 max per day for resort guests, 1-2 for non resort guests, and then allow anyone to buy ala carte FastPasses with the new system on top of the free FastPasses whenever they want. That way when it’s 100 degrees mid day and you’re about to leave to hit the pool but want that one extra ride on Space Mountain you can pay that $10 fee to jump on the ride with minimal wait rather than jump in a 90 minute standby.

I know this is Disney tho and they are focused on the bottom dollar above all else un

Exactly. And it does not make anyone a "homer" or refusal to see the big picture by feeling this way. It is NOT in the best interest of Disney to charge guests to walk onto rides. and most guests 10 grand later would have such a sour taste from doing so they would never come back. Even removing one is more realistic then taking all 3 away and EVEN that I do not see happening.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly. And it does not make anyone a "homer" or refusal to see the big picture by feeling this way. It is NOT in the best interest of Disney to charge guests to walk onto rides. and most guests 10 grand later would have such a sour taste from doing so they would never come back. Even removing one is more realistic then taking all 3 away and EVEN that I do not see happening.

You’re hunting a bear with a fishing pole here…

why do you believe they won’t charge for what their customers tell them they’ll buy?

it’s a fundamental question.

unfortunately we may be a long way out and won’t be able to really assess it until then

 

[Waters Back Side]

You’re hunting a bear with a fishing pole here…

why do you believe they won’t charge for what their customers tell them they’ll buy?

it’s a fundamental question.

unfortunately we may be a long way out and won’t be able to really assess it until the

I call BS, I do not buy it for a second. The vast majority of Disney guests would not be happy going in knowing they had to pay to walk on any rides. I do not believe that they would "like" or "ask" to spend more money. Some (including me) might be inclined to pay for extra fast passes at certain times but not to pay to have to walk on all of the rides or even the vast majority of them at the theme parks they paid for in full in advance. Most would not like the only choices to be to wait on 60 minute lines all week OR PAY to skip.

 

[sup]

the following are email to the board of directors. james.d.macphee@disney.com Phil.M.Holmes@Disney.com sameul.w.lau@disney.com
jack.feivou@disney.com robert.a.iger@disney.com If everyone will email their outrage at CEO Robert Chapek to this board of directors maybe they will hear the America people. I already did this. As one person I am probably not making a difference. Standing together, maybe we can. Come my fellow Americans. I put in james email and CC the rest. We can do this. Lets take Disney World back.

 

[mightynine]

I call BS, I do not buy it for a second. The vast majority of Disney guests would not be happy going in knowing they had to pay to walk on any rides. I do not believe that. Some (including me) might be inclined to pay for extra fast passes at certain times but not to go on rides at the theme parks they paid for. Most would not like the only choices to be to wait on 60 minute lines all week OR PAY to skip.

I would've believed that too, until I saw and spoke to ones from the west coast who couldn't wait to pay Disney to enter a park so they could buy food and gifts and take a photo with characters six feet away. If they'll pay for a no-ride experience, they'll pay for anything.