Fastpass+, a solution to "overwhelmingly negative" responses from families

[Buried20KLeague]

Oh, my gosh!

It's Len Testa!! Have to pick my jaw up off the ground.

I am a wee bit star-struck.

*swoons*

I wish I was internet famous.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I've seen this all over the place too. So is the show up rate on ADR's so good that a CM can not even check the tables to see if any thing is available? I would think that out of 100 or so ADRs for the night that 20 might be no shows...and their spots could be offered up to walk ins. Maybe they overbook ADRs to account for this.

That's possible. But I did not once see them even look down and check for availability.

 

[WDWFigment]

To be fair, I don't think anyone has really qualified the Disney app in real time either. It's a pretty big assumption to make that just because the app was made by Disney, that the data it offers is accurate and timely. We don't know how the system operates, what triggers updates, what the delays are like, etc.

It makes sense that if the app is an official Disney app that it would have the best data. It is a logical assumption, but it is just that, an assumption.

I haven't tried this myself, but the thing do would be to stand out in front of an attraction, see if the times match, wait until it changes, and see how long it takes the app to update (hard mode: use in park wifi ). Do this over a range of rides/parks/times and then you can gauge how well the Disney app stands against others.

I wouldn't assume that Disney's app is presenting actual data in the first place. What if the primary purpose of the app is crowd control or managing expectations? If crowd control is a purpose, the app will be used to manipulate wait times to push people towards/away from certain attractions. If managing expectations is a purpose, it will tend to exaggerate actual waits, as guests are more likely to be satisfied if they "only" wait 45 minutes for an attraction that had a 90 minute posted wait than they are if they waited 45 minutes for an attraction with a 30 minute posted wait.

(Disclosure: I work for TouringPlans.)

 

[muteki]

I wouldn't assume that Disney's app is presenting actual data in the first place. What if the primary purpose of the app is crowd control or managing expectations? If crowd control is a purpose, the app will be used to manipulate wait times to push people towards/away from certain attractions.

Wouldn't presenting real times accomplish the same thing?

If managing expectations is a purpose, it will tend to exaggerate actual waits, as guests are more likely to be satisfied if they "only" wait 45 minutes for an attraction that had a 90 minute posted wait than they are if they waited 45 minutes for an attraction with a 30 minute posted wait.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the guest to gauge his/her expectations on what is actually written on the sign vs. what is on the app? In terms of correctness, wouldn't one always assume if there is a difference between app and sign that the sign would be more realistic?

Not saying that what you said is/isn't true, it just seems a silly way for Disney to go about things. To me, a discrepancy in the wait posted at the attraction and what is in the app is a failure no matter how you look at it, regardless of how long I wait.

 

[WDWFigment]

Wouldn't presenting real times accomplish the same thing?



Wouldn't it make more sense for the guest to gauge his/her expectations on what is actually written on the sign vs. what is on the app? In terms of correctness, wouldn't one always assume if there is a difference between app and sign that the sign would be more realistic?

Not saying that what you said is/isn't true, it just seems a silly way for Disney to go about things. To me, a discrepancy in the wait posted at the attraction and what is in the app is a failure no matter how you look at it, regardless of how long I wait.

If there's a discrepancy between the sign and the My Disney Experience app, then you're right. I was approaching it more from the perspective that Disney might have reason to manipulate both. Why they wouldn't consistently manipulate the numbers is beyond me, as it's very easy for guests to see that either the sign or the app is wrong if both aren't displaying the same thing.

 

[HM Spectre]

Parents who were surveyed about their experience and perception of the Disney Parks "overwhelmingly" said that it was "the most terrifying experience of their life." These are the words he used, unaltered. Parents said this because they know they will have to split up their family in a park of thousands, having people do other things while Mom gets Fastpasses and Dad goes to wait in line to get something to eat with the kids. This creates a vacation of nothing but stress, and Disney (World, more than anywhere else) has been in a sort of crisis-mode trying to figure out just how to handle this. Thus, the implementation of My Disney Experience, Fastpass+, and Dining programs which allows you to have things planned far in advanced, thus allowing the family to stay together.

How to handle this? How about eliminate it all? As is, it's exchanging the stress of splitting up for the stress of having to plan every single aspect of a trip ahead of time to "maximize" an experience. What says stress-free better than coordinating every minute of the day in an itinerary (heaven forbid if something unexpected happens), running around to fast-pass appointments all day with a now-heavily enforced window and trying to keep ADRs in-between?

Personally, I think wandering the parks as a family and choosing what to do/eat in an environment that isn't time enforced is a great stress reducer. Of course, it doesn't give marketing anything to promote and might mean that a family might only get to 90% of the park instead of the 100% needed to achieve the "perfect vacation" in the minds of some parents. Gasp.

 

[RSoxNo1]

How can the app that gets second-hand data be better or more efficient than the source of the data? I'm really asking because y'alls conversation is way beyond my knowledge in this area.

TouringPlans has actual wait times as well as posted wait times. Disney's app feeds off posted wait times. Disney's posted wait times are essentially on a delay, if you get one of the Red cards used to time your wait they scan it at the entrance and you hand it in before bording. If you waited 60 minutes, then that doesn't mean the current wait time is 60 minutes, it means that the wait time was 60 minutes, 60 minutes ago.

More importantly, Disney overstates their wait times to a point where TouringPlans "guesses" are often more accurate. Add in the fact that the Disney app has had issues historically with syncing with the in park #s (I did not experience this in January, but did last September and previous trips), and you can see where some of the advantages align with TouringPlans.

When you factor in the ability to essentially plan out your day for you on TouringPlans (not available on the Disney app), it's really not even close. The Disney app looks better and has better maps. It's also better at reporting downtime. For everything else, I use touringplans.

To be fair, I don't think anyone has really qualified the Disney app in real time either. It's a pretty big assumption to make that just because the app was made by Disney, that the data it offers is accurate and timely. We don't know how the system operates, what triggers updates, what the delays are like, etc.

It makes sense that if the app is an official Disney app that it would have the best data. It is a logical assumption, but it is just that, an assumption.

I haven't tried this myself, but the thing do would be to stand out in front of an attraction, see if the times match, wait until it changes, and see how long it takes the app to update (hard mode: use in park wifi ). Do this over a range of rides/parks/times and then you can gauge how well the Disney app stands against others.

It's been my experience that the wait times update within 5 minutes on the Disney App, that part has improved - but the posted wait times themselves are part of the problem.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I wouldn't assume that Disney's app is presenting actual data in the first place. What if the primary purpose of the app is crowd control or managing expectations? If crowd control is a purpose, the app will be used to manipulate wait times to push people towards/away from certain attractions. If managing expectations is a purpose, it will tend to exaggerate actual waits, as guests are more likely to be satisfied if they "only" wait 45 minutes for an attraction that had a 90 minute posted wait than they are if they waited 45 minutes for an attraction with a 30 minute posted wait.

(Disclosure: I work for TouringPlans.)

It does this in as much as the posted wait times are often used as a means of crowd control.

 

[dhall]

I wouldn't assume that Disney's app is presenting actual data in the first place. What if the primary purpose of the app is crowd control or managing expectations? If crowd control is a purpose, the app will be used to manipulate wait times to push people towards/away from certain attractions. If managing expectations is a purpose, it will tend to exaggerate actual waits, as guests are more likely to be satisfied if they "only" wait 45 minutes for an attraction that had a 90 minute posted wait than they are if they waited 45 minutes for an attraction with a 30 minute posted wait.

(Disclosure: I work for TouringPlans.)

I don't work for TouringPlans and was about to post something along the same lines

 

[wdwgreek]

Even without an app, you can look at a line and alot of the times they are over inflated. I feel like later in the evening the wait times remain the stagnant, even when the line within doesn't exsist.

 

[dupac]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but...

I am willing to believe that some people feel terrified when visiting WDW. I think it is a result of all the information available on the internet. If you are not the type of person who researches thoroughly before going somewhere new, you might only get pieces of information or tips. You casually Google WDW Tips or you look on Pinterest and you discover tons of Mommy Blogs that tout the necessity of FP etc. So people who don't do well commando-vacationing (hmm, images) are now under the impression that they HAVE to tour that way to have a good trip. It's information overload, and not always good information either.

 

[xdan0920]

At every single TS restaurant we ate at during our trip we just got back from, I hung around the podium after checking in (while waiting for a table) to see what people would say as they came in. At every single one, at least one person came to the podium asking if there was availability, and the people at the podium, without looking at their monitors at all, would reply that they were sorry, they were completely booked for the evening. The restaurants were:

Liberty Tree
Sci-Fi
Garden Grill
Ohana
50's Prime Time

The only one that didn't respond that way and allowed people to put their name on a list was Raglan Road... Which I believe is one of the best restaurants on property, ironically.

I remember very specifically having the same thing happen at Mama Melrose, and a bit of a fight broke out over it, because there were clearly open tables.

And my wife and I were turned away from Tutto Italia one night, despite seeing MANY open tables. I asked to speak to a manager, and eventually they relented and sat us.

If you want to see a great example of the ADR system crushing the unprepared, hang out around Crystal Palace.

 

[the-reason14]

From my experience, the official disney app was pretty accurate. If anything I wasn't looking at it for wait times but more for fast pass times. But even then, both wait time and fast pass times were accurate from what I saw.

 

[luv]

I wish I was internet famous.

Oh, my gosh, it's Buried20KLeague!!

If you are the right age, you'll remember a game show on MTV called Remote Control. Ken Ober, the show's host, had hung up pics of real cool game show hosts in his "basement." Guys like Bob Barker. If I had a planning center in my garage, I'd hang up a picture of Len Testa. He's my Bob Barker. (I was extremely good at Remote Control. Jeopardy, no. But I ruled at Remote Control.)

 

[G00fyDad]

At every single TS restaurant we ate at during our trip we just got back from, I hung around the podium after checking in (while waiting for a table) to see what people would say as they came in. At every single one, at least one person came to the podium asking if there was availability, and the people at the podium, without looking at their monitors at all, would reply that they were sorry, they were completely booked for the evening. The restaurants were:

Liberty Tree
Sci-Fi
Garden Grill
Ohana
50's Prime Time

The only one that didn't respond that way and allowed people to put their name on a list was Raglan Road... Which I believe is one of the best restaurants on property, ironically.

Like I've said previously, maybe I an those I know have just been lucky before, but we've walked in to LTT, Sci-Fi and Garden Grill with a 5 minute wait. 50's is another story. I know there can be long waits there. I've experienced one there WITH an ADR.

 

[PhotoDave219]

We've got a mechanism for taking into account how many people the touring plans have already sent to each ride and when. And we've tested the software by simulating 40,000 families using it in WDW. I'm comfortable with the app's scalability.

Well that exceeds the current capacity, assuming 2-3 people per family.

Im just curious about park capacity vs historical crowds. I really would love to see you guys do some serious historial data analysis.

 

[COProgressFan]

I remember very specifically having the same thing happen at Mama Melrose, and a bit of a fight broke out over it, because there were clearly open tables.

And my wife and I were turned away from Tutto Italia one night, despite seeing MANY open tables. I asked to speak to a manager, and eventually they relented and sat us.

If you want to see a great example of the ADR system crushing the unprepared, hang out around Crystal Palace.

We all know that Disney can't afford to staff restaurants unless they are fully booked out months in advance, right?

I've seen the same thing happen. Dozens of empty tables, dozens of hungry walk-up families who would love a sit down meal (and even pay Disney prices!) and lots of money not spent because Disney was afraid to staff the place (or stock the kitchens) appropriately. The genius of TDO apparently.

 

[pjammer]

I wouldn't assume that Disney's app is presenting actual data in the first place. What if the primary purpose of the app is crowd control or managing expectations? If crowd control is a purpose, the app will be used to manipulate wait times to push people towards/away from certain attractions. If managing expectations is a purpose, it will tend to exaggerate actual waits, as guests are more likely to be satisfied if they "only" wait 45 minutes for an attraction that had a 90 minute posted wait than they are if they waited 45 minutes for an attraction with a 30 minute posted wait.

(Disclosure: I work for TouringPlans.)

It's not really the App but the attractions themselves. The App is getting real time data that the ride is sending. I do know that Disney does inflate wait times to create line rejection. Sometimes 90 minutes isn't enough to have people turn around and walk away and if they don't do the line rejection then that wait can inflate drastically and then the wait would be underposted which also happens. Touring Plans has the luxury that they are giving their best guess and their best guess doesn't effect the actual operation of the ride wether they are right or wrong. But the App is giving real info directly from the wait time sign.

 

[pjammer]

Even without an app, you can look at a line and alot of the times they are over inflated. I feel like later in the evening the wait times remain the stagnant, even when the line within doesn't exsist.

You can never look at a line and judge it's wait. Not with FP in play. It's the number one mistake Guest make. They look at the line and it doesn't look long but the wait says 90 minutes then when they wait 90 minutes they complain.

 

[ChrisFL]

I thnk FP+ is an answer to a question nobody (guest-wise) asked.