Fast Pass: Broken Idea

[Elonwy]

another thing I saw once at Disney (and please tell me NONE of you would do this!!!!!)

Is a guest trying to punch the button at the back of the FP machine. I know the CM's have an override button they use in case the machine isn't working or various other reasons (I'm sure there are many)

From what I have seen there is a lock and the CM has a key. For the RnR Fastpass it seems all the machines weren't working, there were quite a few people milling about so I couldn't see that well but I think the CM, walked the line and unlocked the backs of all the machines then got everyone to queue up and she got them their passes (along with another CM who was there helping)

A guest was at the back of the machine fiddling around when the next CM started yelling..."whoa, whoa, whoa!!! We'll get your passes, don't worry, everyone here is going to get a pass."

I hope these machines are never left unlocked for any length of time because there are always a few people out there willing to do anything to cheat the system (though i don't see what he was going to get out of it since the CM's were already handling the situation) :shrug:

 

[slappy magoo]

I think the current FP system works well as is, but I could see some incentives or a tiered FP system in Disney's future if they offer certain things as an incentive for onsite guests/level of resort. They could certainly do that without taking away from the current system of FP distribution for those that it might offend.

Em

On-site Resort guests already get the perk of emh. I'd rather see emh get expanded so there's always at least 2 parks open later at night. I find that more "fair" than developing a have/have-not hierarchy. I like the idea that, during normal business hours, all guests are treated equally.

As far as extra FP perks being an incentive for LEVEL of resort, I don't see the point from WDW'S point of view. The rooms routinely sell out without this perk. If they were to start offering this perk, it would mean business is slumping, which means attendance is slipping, which makes Fastpasses less necessary in the first place. Universal offers this perk, because they pretty much have to, not to keep people on-site but to get more roms booked in the first place.

Besides, if you offer more FP options to all higher end resort guests, it would definitely start cutting into the FPs available to the general public. If they limited these perks to an extra option that has to be purchased, you still run the risk of cutting into general public FPs...UNLESS you limit the number of these extra FPs available to deluxe resort guests, which means,if they sell out and demand exceeds supply, wdw risks alienating the sorts of guests who can afford to stay in the higher-end resorts. Besides, if higher-end-resort guests can enter & leave the parks faster, it might afford them the time to visit other areas in WDW, but it also might afford them the time to go OFF-SITE, or even cut a vacation in half and go elsewhere (like split the trip between WDW resorts and UNI resorts, take advantage of THEIR Expresspass perk system). That wouldn't necessarily benefit WDW much, either

So you the wind up limiting these extra FP perks to the absolute highest-end guests, people in deluxe suites...in short, the sorts of VIPs who'd probably get private tours & VIP passes anyway.

Sorry...just don't see the point, or at least, I see it causing WDW more risk than benefit.

 

[devoy1701]

I noticed this weekend while I was out there that the fine print on the back of a FP only mentions that they cannot accept you into line before your window but there is no language concerning the back of the one hour window... This leads me to believe that they have no intention of actually upholding the back of the one hour window should a sitaution ever come up.

Man...all those people always leave expired FPs on the counter at the Emporium and on tops of trashcans around the parks...now I know I could have used them.

We actually almost had to use our Soarin' FPs after the window in a Monty situation as mentioned in the thread which no longer exists. We had a 4:05 resi at 50s Prime Time and the FP returns were available for 5:15-6:15. 50s was pretty crowded yesterday and we got seated about 15 minutes after our resi...we weren't sure we were going to make the window. Everything worked out ok though. GF's father got kicked in the butt and his funny bone knocked against the table by our waitress Kristy...Great place!

and after this weekend...(I'm directing this towards Slappy) I don't think the Fastpass system is what's broken...the bigger problem is the way EMH has gotten out of control which I mentioned in the MK Updates thread in the News and Rumors section.

OH YEAH: One more thing...yesterday morning we got FPs for E:E around 9:30 and went to ride Dinosaur. The FP said that we were able to get another FP after only an hour instead of 2 hrs. Is that weird? Or do they have different wait times at different parks/times of day?

 

[durangojim]

I noticed this weekend while I was out there that the fine print on the back of a FP only mentions that they cannot accept you into line before your window but there is no language concerning the back of the one hour window... This leads me to believe that they have no intention of actually upholding the back of the one hour window should a sitaution ever come up.

Man...all those people always leave expired FPs on the counter at the Emporium and on tops of trashcans around the parks...now I know I could have used them.

We actually almost had to use our Soarin' FPs after the window in a Monty situation as mentioned in the thread which no longer exists. We had a 4:05 resi at 50s Prime Time and the FP returns were available for 5:15-6:15. 50s was pretty crowded yesterday and we got seated about 15 minutes after our resi...we weren't sure we were going to make the window. Everything worked out ok though. GF's father got kicked in the butt and his funny bone knocked against the table by our waitress Kristy...Great place!

and after this weekend...(I'm directing this towards Slappy) I don't think the Fastpass system is what's broken...the bigger problem is the way EMH has gotten out of control which I mentioned in the MK Updates thread in the News and Rumors section.

OH YEAH: One more thing...yesterday morning we got FPs for E:E around 9:30 and went to ride Dinosaur. The FP said that we were able to get another FP after only an hour instead of 2 hrs. Is that weird? Or do they have different wait times at different parks/times of day?

You can get a second FP 2 hours after your first or after the first time on the original FP. So if it's 9:00am and you get an FP that says you can return at 9:30am you can get your next FP at 9:30a. BTW this is what we do in the morning, I go around and collect, Pooh, Peter Pan, Buzz, and maybe Jungle Cruise FPs usually by 10:30am and then we use them that evening after we've stood in the standby line for the Fantasy Land rides in the morning. This way my kids get to go in the AM and then when they're tired in the evening they don't have to wait as long.

 

[slappy magoo]

You can get a second FP 2 hours after your first or after the first time on the original FP. So if it's 9:00am and you get an FP that says you can return at 9:30am you can get your next FP at 9:30a. BTW this is what we do in the morning, I go around and collect, Pooh, Peter Pan, Buzz, and maybe Jungle Cruise FPs usually by 10:30am and then we use them that evening after we've stood in the standby line for the Fantasy Land rides in the morning. This way my kids get to go in the AM and then when they're tired in the evening they don't have to wait as long.

...and while I can't really blame you for doing this, I suspect that, the more people do this, the greater the chances are that WDW will eventually start paying more attention to the time-window, and making exceptions the exception and not the rule. I totally understand someone being allowed to use their FP if they're a little late; we all get sidetracked sometimes. I also understand someone taking advantage of the system if WDW is allowing it to be taken advantage of in that way. But I'm also aware that a time may come where they close that loophole, so I try to use FP the way it's meant to be used so it's not so much of an inconvenience when that day comes, and I have a half-dozen fastpasses that "expired" hours ago.

 

[nybound]

And a final solution (no, not THAT "Final Solution" all you World War 2 history buffs, man, what is WRONG with you?) would be to install Fastpass kiosks not only throughout each park, but also in resorts and DTD, that would allow you to PLAN YOUR FASTPASSES, picking the times that work out best for you, and not what the current wait time is, or will be when you get there. There would be some caveats, like a one hour wait-time in-between each Fastpass one-hour window, and of course if your plans changed you might be S.O.L. but this allows a conscientious visitor to plan ideal times for him/herself and his/her party members, without worrying about "making" ADRs or missing parades. You'll get a little itinerary, and use your pass (like in the previous example) to get on the Fastpass line without any worry.

That's an interesting idea. Sounds like a logistical nightmare, but still interesting.

 

[Flower'sChild]

I noticed this weekend while I was out there that the fine print on the back of a FP only mentions that they cannot accept you into line before your window but there is no language concerning the back of the one hour window... This leads me to believe that they have no intention of actually upholding the back of the one hour window should a sitaution ever come up.

This is what I was saying in the other thread.

 

[EmOhYouEssE]

OH YEAH: One more thing...yesterday morning we got FPs for E:E around 9:30 and went to ride Dinosaur. The FP said that we were able to get another FP after only an hour instead of 2 hrs. Is that weird? Or do they have different wait times at different parks/times of day?

I know in DL, a lot of times when you go early in the AM, there is only an hour window between FP allowances (if your FP return time is over an hour away), and they raise it to two hours as the park gets busier. Maybe WDW is trying that technique to reward early risers (aka, hey, look, if you get here early, you can get more accomplished so you'll be in the park longer to shop)

Slappy, I totally understand the logistics of what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense to me as well. I also don't see them implementing a tiered type of thing unless their hotels weren't filling up and they needed an incentive.

I do tend to agree with devoy about the EMH becoming out of control. Not so much the morning, but definitely the evening. I really like Slappy's idea of offering it at two parks to dispurse the crowds more.

Em

 

[slappy magoo]

I know in DL, a lot of times when you go early in the AM, there is only an hour window between FP allowances (if your FP return time is over an hour away), and they raise it to two hours as the park gets busier. Maybe WDW is trying that technique to reward early risers (aka, hey, look, if you get here early, you can get more accomplished so you'll be in the park longer to shop)

Slappy, I totally understand the logistics of what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense to me as well. I also don't see them implementing a tiered type of thing unless their hotels weren't filling up and they needed an incentive.

I do tend to agree with devoy about the EMH becoming out of control. Not so much the morning, but definitely the evening. I really like Slappy's idea of offering it at two parks to dispurse the crowds more.

Em

I think when it comes to getting another Fastpass in general, the policy is you can get another one either two hours after you got your last one OR when your one-window begins, whichever comes first.

If, in the morning, there's only one hour between the time you got your last FP and the time you can get your next FP, could it be that the one houe falls in line with the time you can use your first FP?

And ideally, I think ALL the parks should be open later with EMH ALL of the time, but even when I dream, I don't like to get too greedy.

 

[fosse76]

And finally, in regards to the time window, yeah, I understand that some people use Fastpasses after their one hour time window expired. The fact that CMs allow people to use these expired Fastpasses (according to some, the CMS have been instructed by the suits to let people pass) indicates to me that Disney doesn't see it as an issue, so why should we?

Because that WILL make the lines longer. FastPass is really a line redistribution system. If 250 FPs per hour are issued at one attraction, the 250 people from the previous hour will be displacing 250 people from the current hour and so on. If too many people go beyond their scheduled time, then you've got 300 people in a spot for 250...backing up the FP line AND by consequence the standby line. Since it apparently isn't so abused (I think most people adhere to the window) it really isn't affecting anything. The employees probably keep on eye on that as opposed to making it policy, giving them flexibility.

1: Make the window longer - 90 mins? 2 hours? This allows even more wiggle room for people who get held up on a malfunctioning attraction's line, or a longer-than-expected meal, a shoppe where the help is new and takes more time ringing up sales, whatever...

I don't think it needs to be longer...you're essentially already getting a reprieve from having to stand in line for that hour...Just stick around and do other attractions in that area as opposed to running all over the park.

2: Sync the fastpass use to the visitor's pass, not the little ticket that spits out of the Fastpass machine. When they approach the Fastpass line, there's a ticket machine they feed their pass into, and if the Fastpass window is still valid, they're allowed in. Once inside, there's also another ticket machine at the point where the Fastpass & standby lines start to merge. This way, no one can jump over from the Standby line. In the unlikely event that your window expires in the time between the 2 machines, it only matters as long as your window was still in effect when you first entered, you'll still be good to go.

That won't work. Machines that are constantly in use are prone to breakdown with more frequent use. This would be a maintenance headache and would probably cause the FP lines to back up.

3: Make it impossible for a customer to get another fastpass UNTIL either the prior fastpass is used, or the window, expires, providing people incentive to get to that attraction so they can a fastpass for another attraction.

I don't agree nor disagree. To implement that, though, they would have to enforce the return window.

And a final solution (no, not THAT "Final Solution" all you World War 2 history buffs, man, what is WRONG with you?) would be to install Fastpass kiosks not only throughout each park, but also in resorts and DTD, that would allow you to PLAN YOUR FASTPASSES, picking the times that work out best for you, and not what the current wait time is, or will be when you get there. There would be some caveats, like a one hour wait-time in-between each Fastpass one-hour window, and of course if your plans changed you might be S.O.L. but this allows a conscientious visitor to plan ideal times for him/herself and his/her party members, without worrying about "making" ADRs or missing parades. You'll get a little itinerary, and use your pass (like in the previous example) to get on the Fastpass line without any worry.

I STRONGLY disagree with this. As the FP system is now, you have to do a little work by actually going to the attraction. FP is essentially a virtual queue system. If people could get them beforehand, then they would all be gone by the time the parks open. Disney didn't design the system so guests can get a FP for every single attraction they want to experience. It's to make money by getting those people into shops and restaurants that they weren't planning on visiting. That doesn't happen when people plan ahead like this. Disney was thinking more along like this: Guest 1: "What do we do now that we have an hour?" Guest 2: "I know, let's go into that store and browse for a while." or "How about we get a snack." They weren't thinking "what is the most efficient way to get our guests on as many attractions as possible without long waits?" Your system would eliminate the "what do we now" spontanaity that would cause people to spend money they weren't planning to spend.

 

[EmOhYouEssE]

I think when it comes to getting another Fastpass in general, the policy is you can get another one either two hours after you got your last one OR when your one-window begins, whichever comes first.

If, in the morning, there's only one hour between the time you got your last FP and the time you can get your next FP, could it be that the one houe falls in line with the time you can use your first FP?

And ideally, I think ALL the parks should be open later with EMH ALL of the time, but even when I dream, I don't like to get too greedy.

The policy is two hours at WDW, but, not always at DL. For instance, at DL we are able to FP indy, ride it without using the FP, ride pirates, ride HM and then are able to FP Splash (the indy time to ride hasn't come up yet and it hasn't been two hours since our first pass, usually it's right on the hour mark), ride splash without using the FP and no wait, ride pooh, then have breakfast and use our Indy FP. (We are extreme creatures of habit at DL, lol). That's why I thought maybe WDW was trying the one hour thing at AKL for early risers to see how it went?

Like I said, at DL, it goes to two hours as the day goes on and the parks fill up more. For some reason, Californians don't like to get up and get to the parks early, lol. It's usually pretty dead in DL until about 11:30 or so. (unless you are in Tomorrowland, ugh, that place gets mobbed pretty early)

I don't know if all the parks being open for EMH would work due to crowd levels in each park being dispursed TOO much, but, I would certainly not be opposed to the idea.

Em

 

[slappy magoo]

Fosse76,

rest assured, I know HOW Fastpass works and why it exists, and like many people, don't see it as particularly broken. My ideas are based on what could be done if WDW ever perceives FP to be fine-tuned or updated.

In regards to your first criticism:

Because that WILL make the lines longer. FastPass is really a line redistribution system. If 250 FPs per hour are issued at one attraction, the 250 people from the previous hour will be displacing 250 people from the current hour and so on. If too many people go beyond their scheduled time, then you've got 300 people in a spot for 250...backing up the FP line AND by consequence the standby line. Since it apparently isn't so abused (I think most people adhere to the window) it really isn't affecting anything. The employees probably keep on eye on that as opposed to making it policy, giving them flexibility.

...I respond with my first post on this (revised) thread: "...if you show up later, you make the line a TAD longer at that point, but as a result, the lines were a TAD shorter all the time you WEREN'T there. It's plausible that people in the standby line would be getting on, more or less, the same time anyway, because if you showed up within your window, everyone else on the standby line before them would've waited those few extra seconds for you to get on, and it would all balance out, as far as attendance totals at the end of the night. I would guess Disney keeps one-hour windows on the fastpass, however, so that they could start adhering to the windows if levels of attendance seem to make it necessary. Of course, if I'M on line, and have to wait while someone with an expires fastpass passes me by, I'm gonna be a little irked, though I'm sure I'll manage without killing anyone. "

In regards to your next few critiques of my ideas, bear in mind that the three numbered quotes of mine are meant to all work in tandem. Not three ideas, one idea with three parts. I'm not saying it would definitely work, but to say it wouldn't work when you're critiquing each item as its own item is like critiquing a kite when it's unassembled: "No, no no, the kite needs to be held together with sticks! And the sticks need to be attached to some kind of fabric or plastic to be a kite! And there needs to be a string attached to the kite! And the kite needs to be attached to a string! Nope, nope, these things will never work."


And as far as your last critique, about how people shouldn't be allowed to get FPs without getting to the parks...I admit, there's a bit of a point there. FPs WILL probably get "sold out" before a lot of people arrive at the park. But my point is if there were a time-window IN-BETWEEN the time windows you can use your FastPass (AND if the time-windows are enforced), then there are only SO many Fastpasses each person can get anyway, which might prevent them from getting sold out. Let's say there needs to be at least 2 hours before the start time of one fastpass and the start time of another Fastpass. That means, if a park is open for 10 hours, the most Fastpasses someone could get would be 5. And that's IF they get lucky enough to get all the times they want, give or take a few minutes to a half-hour here or there. You might get Splace Mountain for 10-11am, but that doesn't mean you'll get a FP for Splash Mountain at 12-1pm, it might not be available until 12:15-1:15pm, and if that keeps going, you might only wind up getting 4 Fastpasses instead of 5. Hell, if I show up at a park right when it opens, I routinely get more than 5 Fastpasses based on the current system.

One caveat would be that some people might get Fastpasses and then not go to those parks. Possible Solution? Getting a Fastpass deducts a day from your Magic Your Way Pass. If you get a Space Mountain Fastpass for 10am, you're automatically tied to going to MK, sticking your ticket in the opening turnstile is basically a formality, but you've already been deducted a day from your MYW pass. And if you don't have Park Hopper, and then change your mind and try to go to a different park, you're shut out. If you DO have Park-Hoppers, you can get into another park, but you're still tied to the FPs you've received. Sure, someone might change their minds and go to Epcot instead, but if they got a 10am Fastpass for Space Mountain, the earliest time window they can get a Fastpass in an Epcot attraction would still be starting at noon, because of the two-hour window. As a result, the people who will take advantage of this system will be people who have every intention of showing up and using it to their advantage. Will mistakes happen? Sure, but mistakes happen now. As others have noted, people keep their Fastpass ticket or toss them if they think the one-hour window is being enforced and they've missed it (me, if I can't use a Fastpass, I give it away).

So if there were kiosks like this throughout WDW's property, the people who would get screwed over the most would be off-property visitors (and really, who cares about THEM? ) But seriously, ladies and germs, considering you can only get a handful of Fastpasses this way, it still means you have to schedule your time appropriately. It doesn't afford you the luxury of getting a FP for every single attraction you want to experience (unless you want to only experience 5). And if they WERE all over the World, even off-property guests can go to a resort or DTD and see what they can get before arriving at the parks, giving them an added opportunity to plan their day around what else they'd like to do (including, yes, eating and shopping).

 

[slappy magoo]

The policy is two hours at WDW, but, not always at DL. For instance, at DL we are able to FP indy, ride it without using the FP, ride pirates, ride HM and then are able to FP Splash (the indy time to ride hasn't come up yet and it hasn't been two hours since our first pass, usually it's right on the hour mark), ride splash without using the FP and no wait, ride pooh, then have breakfast and use our Indy FP. (We are extreme creatures of habit at DL, lol). That's why I thought maybe WDW was trying the one hour thing at AKL for early risers to see how it went?

Like I said, at DL, it goes to two hours as the day goes on and the parks fill up more. For some reason, Californians don't like to get up and get to the parks early, lol. It's usually pretty dead in DL until about 11:30 or so. (unless you are in Tomorrowland, ugh, that place gets mobbed pretty early)

I don't know if all the parks being open for EMH would work due to crowd levels in each park being dispursed TOO much, but, I would certainly not be opposed to the idea.

Em

Hey, I could be wrong about the one-hour-vs.two-hour window. It's been known to happen once or twice a decade.

And as far as I'm concerned, crowd levels in the parks can't disperse enough for me. :lol: But yeah, I'd be happy if every day 2 parks had EMH. I think at this point, there could be over 100K ON-PROPERTY guests at any one-time. Not saying they're ALL going to take advantage of late-night EMH, but it's a number that's bound to give some people pause. And WDW is growing all the time. If they keep adding rooms but not parks (not that I'm saying it's 5th gate time, that's another argument for another time), late night EMH's will be even more of a madhouse. We basically use EMH mainly to get out of the Florida sun, but you gotta be able to stick around until the last hour, when most people ________ out, to get a lot of attractions under your belt.

 

[cblodg]

fastpass is a good when you don't want to wait in long lines but the long lines are created from fastpass without fastpass the lines would move faster

I don't think there is any empirical data that supports this. Fastpass is meant to re-distribute the guests throughout the park. Now, ideally, people will come back and use the pass in the proper return times.

Stand by wait time is not increased by Fastpass. What increases stand-by wait is speed of load and unload, 101s, and just the shear volumes of people wanting to ride the ride.

 

[durangojim]

...and while I can't really blame you for doing this, I suspect that, the more people do this, the greater the chances are that WDW will eventually start paying more attention to the time-window, and making exceptions the exception and not the rule. I totally understand someone being allowed to use their FP if they're a little late; we all get sidetracked sometimes. I also understand someone taking advantage of the system if WDW is allowing it to be taken advantage of in that way. But I'm also aware that a time may come where they close that loophole, so I try to use FP the way it's meant to be used so it's not so much of an inconvenience when that day comes, and I have a half-dozen fastpasses that "expired" hours ago.

Yep, and if that day comes, I will not be complaining or throwing a tantrum. Just right now, the system allows us to do this and frankly allows my kids to get a little more "magic" than they would be able to do otherwise (a 60 minute wait for Peter Pan at 9:00pm for a 3 y/o is not an option). Also, as I said in the previous thread, it may be that people returning past the window time has a negligible effect on the length of the line because it means at some point the FP line is shorter. Perhaps this is why Disney doesn't enforce the second window time.

 

[SleepingMonk]

I think they should make them only available to......


LOL



Just kidding.

 

[cblodg]

I think they should make them only available to......


LOL



Just kidding.

:ROFLOL::lol::ROFLOL::lol:

:lookaroun

 

[MichWolv]

So here is a question about fast pass then - is it really worth it? Thinking about what little I know about it, I am not sure I want to plan that much. It will be my second time there, my son's first. I just figure that my husband and I will probably pick one thing each that we would like to ride on that he cannot, but this trip is for him. We figure will will be there for 8 days, with a 7 day hopper, and we are planning on just sticking around the parks and DTD. Is something like the fast pass really something that we should consider and plan for the last few days in Nov and 1st week in Dec, or will be be fine just taking it slow, getting in what we can and enjoying whatever my son seems to be interested in. I figure we will enjoy it a whole lot more if we take a slower pace and not have every second of the day planned.

I use fastpass in two ways. First, if I'm at a park at opening, I'll grab the tickets for my whole family, get fastpasses for one popular attraction and then meet them at another to ride before a line develops.

Second, as we're roaming the park, if we pass an attraction we like on the way to something else, I'll grab fastpasses.

In either case, whether we wind up using the fastpasses or not depends on what we're in the mood for later in the day, how the crowd levels are, etc. But we gather them up as available, and use them as desired. Probably winds up saving us an average of an hour of lines -- or allows us to see a couple extra attraction per day.

 

[markjohns1]

Because that WILL make the lines longer. FastPass is really a line redistribution system. If 250 FPs per hour are issued at one attraction, the 250 people from the previous hour will be displacing 250 people from the current hour and so on. If too many people go beyond their scheduled time, then you've got 300 people in a spot for 250...backing up the FP line AND by consequence the standby line. Since it apparently isn't so abused (I think most people adhere to the window) it really isn't affecting anything. The employees probably keep on eye on that as opposed to making it policy, giving them flexibility.

Fastpass is not the cause of making lines longer. Fastpass also does not make lines shorter. Wait times are a direct result of the OHRC of that ride and the number of guests in line. It does not matter if those guests are in a fastpass line, a singles line, or the standby line. If there was no fastpass line, those guests would simply be in the standby line already. It is all a wash.

Anytime you get a rush of guests entering an attraction, of course the wait times will be longer. There are more guests trying to ride an attraction that has a fixed capacity. For instance, I'll bet when Fantasmic lets out the wait times for RnRC and ToT increase significantly. Or when Spectro finishes, I'd imagine wait times increase park-wide. That doesn't mean we need to start dismissing by rows or anything. It's just the way things work. And going back to the fastpass return windows, it really doesn't matter when guests return with them. If they did not have a fastpass, the standby line would still be longer because they would be getting in that line.

Fastpasses allows guests to decrease their own wait times for particular attractions, freeing them up to do other things. Again, the fastpass system does not increase or decrease the wait times for an attraction.

 

[coasterphil]

Just be glad that WDW isn't like DL where half the machines aren't even on the network and you can go crazy stockpiling them during the morning to use them(past the window of course) during the afternoon/evening. Not that I took advantage of that at all during my trip last year. :lookaroun