Families of autistic kids sue Disney parks over policy on lines

[Victor Kelly]

This was already prepared for by Disney. It does get to the point that people say they are entitled to something for this reason or that. But it is coming to a point where people want something proven despite what a law says.

 

[GeneralZod]

On page 37, I found this:

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Suing a theme park because they didn't provide a "reasonably enjoyable" experience?
That's a new one! (For me at least)

Good point. With all the complaining on this site, half of the users here should sue.

 

[rob0519]

If I see this I'm always a bit ehhh. In my knowledge Disney is excellent at catering for guests with disabilities.

Where is it that you obtained this knowledge of Disney's excellent catering to guests with disabilities? Is it from personal experience with a disabled family member or reading the posts of people who have no disabilities in their family? They used to be excellent, now they are much closer to average.

 

[TP2000]

What I don't understand is why these folks aren't also suing Cedar Fair, Universal, Six Flags, Legoland and Sea World instead? All of those places have identical or more restrictive disabled pass policies than Disney does. So why only go after Disney on this one?

 

[MarkTwain]

I would be curious to see what a family of an autistic child would think of the DAS system, if they had never been to WDW before and had never been granted a GAC card. Would they still think they are receiving inappropriate accommodations? I wonder how many of the complaints in court are from people that were simply too used to the more generous accommodations provided by the old system.

EDIT: edited to include this:

What I don't understand is why these folks aren't also suing Cedar Fair, Universal, Six Flags, Legoland and Sea World instead? All of those places have identical or more restrictive disabled pass policies than Disney does. So why only go after Disney on this one?

This is more or less what I was getting at.

 

[flynnibus]

What I don't understand is why these folks aren't also suing Cedar Fair, Universal, Six Flags, Legoland and Sea World instead? All of those places have identical or more restrictive disabled pass policies than Disney does. So why only go after Disney on this one?

Because they only goto Disney

 

[Animaniac93-98]

What I don't understand is why these folks aren't also suing Cedar Fair, Universal, Six Flags, Legoland and Sea World instead? All of those places have identical or more restrictive disabled pass policies than Disney does. So why only go after Disney on this one?

This is the question I'd like to see answered the most in court. If all amusement parks have reached the same conclusion about how to handle disabled guests, than wouldn't one suit affect them all indirectly? In the off chance Disney loses, is a precedent set?

 

[Tom Morrow]

Where is it that you obtained this knowledge of Disney's excellent catering to guests with disabilities? Is it from personal experience with a disabled family member or reading the posts of people who have no disabilities in their family? They used to be excellent, now they are much closer to average.

if it is "average" now, its because they were going above and beyond in what they provided, and an uncontrollable amount of people abused it. Give 'em an inch, they take a mile, etc.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What I don't understand is why these folks aren't also suing Cedar Fair, Universal, Six Flags, Legoland and Sea World instead? All of those places have identical or more restrictive disabled pass policies than Disney does. So why only go after Disney on this one?

Disney has catered more to this audience and their size could open up what is considered reasonable. I also believe Universal has a higher minimum wait time before requiring return times.

 

[Mommy2cooper]

All I can say is one bad apple ruins the bunch. It's upsetting. I still can not believe that people were paying disabled people in order to ride rides. It's crazy. I think there has to be a better way. Now I'm worried though because this is our first Disney trip next week. My husband is using DAS bc of his PTSD so i'm worried it may not work out like I had hoped it would. There has to be a better way for all of this....must be.

 

[WDW1974]

OK, without reading the five pages preceding I'll join in.

The lawsuit is a joke and without merit. It is all about the ME mentality and what I would call (oh, folks are gonna love this) the 'Autistic Mommy Mafia' that believes their children should get whatever they want, whenever they want it.

Disney used to bend over backward for people with disabilities and all it did was become a scam of huge proportions. Nothing like saying your eight-year-old gets violent when told 'no' (so instead of keeping him/her out of theme parks until he/she is able to better cope), you get a 'cut in front of everyone on every line, every time' pass.

It was obscene. And it harmed people with true problems more than it did the rest of us.

No one has to go to WDW, as I am frequently reminded. If people don't like Disney's current policy, which still is incredibly fair and above and beyond the ADA requirements, then let those people just not go.

Sorry, life isn't always MAGICal.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

 

[StarWarsGirl]

This whole suit will fall into the lap of a Federal judge who will look at it, determine it's not worth the time, and dismiss it. If it were a state case, it might get drawn out, but it's a Federal case, and they don't have a leg to stand on and commit too many fallacies.

It's not a perfect system, but the level of abuse only hurt those who actually need the system more. More planning is needed yes, but it is doable. And if it's not, Disney's policy allows for guests to discuss the individual case and ask for further accommodations.

Note to parents who use this system: Read this, print it out, bring it with you. At least give the new system a try for half a day. If it isn't working, go to guest services, explain the situation, and if they insist they can't help you, show them their policy and ask for a manager. A manager will do their best to make you happy.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

This is always the problem. It all comes down to vetting those using the program. I know I’m in the minority of those in the disability community, but I’d have no problem going through a registration process that would verify my son’s eligibility for the program in exchange for semi-permanent access to an expanded FP+ system. I’m thinking along the lines of submitting a doctor generated diagnosis and a brief face to face meeting with a GR member in exchange for a photo ID and access to expanded FP+ through MDE for 2-3 years.

FP+ would limit looping due to the window sizes. Photo Id and diagnosis would prevent abuse. The tradeoff being a workable system that I could make extensive plans to regiment the entire trip, while only going through the more rigorous application process every few years.

I know some see it as a violation of privacy to require those things, but I don’t see an issue with sharing my son’s diagnosis with Disney. Its no different than any other service we would apply him for. We’re not talking government registration here. It’s a permit for a theme park perk, not a step towards internment camps for the disabled.

The problem with this is HIPPA laws. You'd have to sign papers that would allow your doctor to share information with Disney, and even so, Disney might still be afraid of a lawsuit. I've heard stories of people with doctor's notes and CMs downright refused them.

What you can do, and as someone in a similar situation (my brother is on the autism spectrum) here is what I recommend you do:

• Give the new program a try for half a day. Even if you don't think it will work, at least give it 3 hours.
• Go back to Guest relations, ask to speak to a manager (after the stories that I've heard, I wouldn't try dealing with the regular CM), and explain why it doesn't work. If you have at least given it a shot, and if they see that you have a child in distress, they are more likely to be willing to help you out.
• See what the manager offers you. They may be able to make a special note on your card or hand you a stack of traditional FPs or something.
• Read and familiarize yourself with this policy
• On future visits, bring your card and it should expedite the process.

We have used the DAS and it did work fine in combination with FP+ and shorter lines in between, but I know this may not work for everyone. If you don't think you can even handle 3 hours, or if your child has limited time in the park because of his condition, then ask to speak to a manager right away.

It is a more rigorous process now to get a DAS. They have the child's photo taken, they ask the child questions (usually to gauge if there's a language issue, as a language issue is a common cognitive symptom, or if they just come across as "off") and then they'll issue the card.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

suing just for the sake of suing.. not even TRYING to work with the new system.. That's all this is....

^^This. We found the new system very workable. More planning is required, but it is workable in conjunction with FP+. And in the rare case where it is not, the policy (which I recommend those who utilize this service print out and bring with them) says this:

What will Disney Parks do if a Guest is concerned the DAS Card doesn't
meet their needs?
Disney Parks have long recognized and accommodated Guests with varying needs and will
continue to work individually with Guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to
their specific circumstances. In unique situations, our Guest Relations staff will discuss special
accommodations for persons who are concerned the DAS Card doesn't meet their needs (e.g., for
those whose disability limits the duration of their visit to the park or limits their choice of attractions).
All accommodations will be made in person, on site at Guest Relations.

But still, declaring it won't work before even giving it a shot is just silly, not to mention undermines the credibility of the person who says it won't work. And the other thing is that you need to prepare your child. They are used to learning, from learning school schedules to meal times to routines, that they can be taught that this is the way things work in WDW now. We find that talking to my brother before a new situation arises lets him know what to expect and seriously relieves his stress. Now it may not work for every child, but that's why the policy is written the way it is. With most of the kids I've seen, this helps them and it's a tactic I see them use in school.

 

[G00fyDad]

My good friend's first born son is autistic. He and his wife have been very practive in working with Jack on various issues that arise with his autism. My friend has taken Jack to Disney since he was an infant and one reason is to see how Jack can incorporate the different strategies that were put in place with his school, etc. Five years ago, when Jack saw/heard the fireworks, he would go into meltdown, yelling/screaming/crying. We learned to get Jack out of the parks before the fireworks. Today, Jack can tolerate the fireworks with little problem. While he still does not like rides, he does like to look around the parks, he loves to meet the characters and he likes to do things with his dad. That's why my friend takes his autistic son to Disney. His two younger sons are not autistic, and go through the park without problem. It is not an option, and not fair, that Jack be left behind and not be included in family outings. What my friend does is make the accomodations necessary to make Jack's trip, and the entire family's trip, enjoyable.

Ohhh. Okay. See, I always thought that it was an either/or situation. That an autistic person could never handle the sensory input of something like a theme park. Thanks for the response.

 

[G00fyDad]

I’ve been through this more in depth in past threads, so I’ll do a quick version here.
Autism isn’t about being afraid or repulsed by sensory input. Its more like an exposed nerve. There is no filter for that sensory input. If the sensory input is welcome and the feelings are good, then those with autism can find a level of joy out of that sensory input that those of us without will never be able to experience. The sheer exhilaration on my son’s face when he is "in the zone", is something I am truly jealous of. It’s a true emphatic joy for the stimuli he is receiving. The flip side, is he can’t shut it out. When it goes bad, when the input is unwelcome or something unpleasant, there is no suffering through it. It is like salt in a wound.

Those with autism that have a better time with that sensory input and more frequently enjoy it than not are called sensory seekers. Those who have more issues with it are called sensory sensitive. My son is a sensory seeker now, so WDW is a dream to him. But there are times when it gets too much and he will shut down and be inconsolable. But, the good times outweigh the bad (more and more as he gets older) so the bad is worth it for the good. Each person with autism will be an individual, and it is up to them and their parents to decide whether WDW works for them. As I have explained in depth in the past, we had a sensory sensitive child who came alive because of the over stimulation in the parks, so we used that to help him become more of a sensory seeker by using WDW as a therapy. It has worked wonders for him, and has helped him become far more capable of dealing with those stresses in everyday life. He still has his moments, but WDW has helped them become far less frequent.

So, to answer your question. Why would I risk bringing my son, to WDW? Because the reward is worth it. Not all tantrums are bad. Not all dissapointments, breakdowns, and crying fits, are a pure evil. We learn from them and grow. So, suffering through those early, have made him able to enjoy his favorite place in the world. He grew from those experiences, and can now enjoy WDW with limited break downs, and with now very limited use of DAS/GAC.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[G00fyDad]

Couldn't have said it better myself! That's why my autistic cousin has not been to Disney. Lights, sounds and volumes of guests would stress him out.

I think you may have misinterpreted my statement. I'm not saying people shouldn't take autistic children. Not at all.

 

[Gomer]

The problem with this is HIPPA laws. You'd have to sign papers that would allow your doctor to share information with Disney, and even so, Disney might still be afraid of a lawsuit. I've heard stories of people with doctor's notes and CMs downright refused them.

What you can do, and as someone in a similar situation (my brother is on the autism spectrum) here is what I recommend you do:

• Give the new program a try for half a day. Even if you don't think it will work, at least give it 3 hours.
• Go back to Guest relations, ask to speak to a manager (after the stories that I've heard, I wouldn't try dealing with the regular CM), and explain why it doesn't work. If you have at least given it a shot, and if they see that you have a child in distress, they are more likely to be willing to help you out.
• See what the manager offers you. They may be able to make a special note on your card or hand you a stack of traditional FPs or something.
• Read and familiarize yourself with this policy
• On future visits, bring your card and it should expedite the process.

We have used the DAS and it did work fine in combination with FP+ and shorter lines in between, but I know this may not work for everyone. If you don't think you can even handle 3 hours, or if your child has limited time in the park because of his condition, then ask to speak to a manager right away.

It is a more rigorous process now to get a DAS. They have the child's photo taken, they ask the child questions (usually to gauge if there's a language issue, as a language issue is a common cognitive symptom, or if they just come across as "off") and then they'll issue the card.

I'm not sure if this whole post was in response to me or just the first paragraph. But just to be clear, I have used the DAS program and had no issues with it. I didn't find the process at GR to be a problem at all. Quite the contrary, it happened to be quicker than the GAC had been for me.

I was just speculating on a theoretical process that might make it easier to keep out abusers and maintain ease of use for those who need it, but I admittedly was not taking Disney's legal risks into account in my speculation.

 

[SpaceMtn101]

The thing that bothers me about this lawsuit is the entitlement people think they have with a disability. They expect everyone to hand them something. All they are teaching their kids is to be the same way. When they do not get their way then yell, scream, and throw a fit until they give in. It is sad that people view the world on this way.
I have a student in my class who's parents are disabled. The child has something wrong with him but the parents do my want to find out. Since he started in my class, the parents demand me to change EVERYTHING for him. His mom tries to debate everything with me. They feel entitled since they live in a hotel an live off the government. They went as far as telling me I need to pay for him to go on a field trip. People like this give people with a disability a bad name. They make people look negatively at the whole system.
With that being said I have asked friends who have autistic children who go to disney regularly how they like the new system. One does not have access to fastpass plus since their husband is a manager at Disney. They have to rethink the day and plan a little more. They go and enjoy the day in a different way. It does not stop them from going. They go different times of day when. It os not peak time.
I don't have an autistic kid, but I have a child with no patience. He is 20 months old and will have a meltdown if he has to wait a long time for something. He does not understand about wait times and why we are waiting. We do not get special treatment or accommodations. Instead we go earlier in the day or later in the day. We fastpass the attractions that he likes with longer waits than we know will be an issue. It takes planning but works fine. I can imagine with both that it is a reasonable system. It just seems that people need to plan a little more but it still works!