News Expose reveals WDC control in online fan community

[tirian]

Well, that's a good point. And I'm sure there are plenty of CM's on these boards who cheerlead or criticize their employer either blatantly as a CM or anonymously pretending to not be a CM.

I mean, my God, Disney theme parks are the largest single site employer in both states they are in; California and Florida. So you can't have 100,000 employees and not expect at least a few thousand to go online and cheerlead or criticize. Especially the younger ones. Especially after they've had a few drinks.

But I just can't wrap my head around a purposeful and planned system in which TDO pays CM's to "steer conversations" online for the bizarrely inefficient purpose of trying to woo customers and give YouTubers blogging from their basement new content for more clicks.

If TDO and TDA want to woo a hundred or so smarmy lifestyle YouTubers (a minor hassle in modern marketing), just send them a box of t-shirts and toys and hotel vouchers and cut out the middle man. If TDO and TDA want to woo 30 Million or so customers back to the re-opened parks (a major headache in modern marketing now), a splashy TV special and snazzy commercials paired with discounts and ticketing gimmicks and super-sanitized health theater would seem the way to do it.

But planting subversive suggestions on an old legacy message board Original Legendary Message Board in an attempt to "steer conversations" and influence others? It just seems like a monumental waste of time and resources for such a tiny, tiny benefit that is almost impossible to track and quantify.

What am I missing here???

Officially steer it? No.

Support fans and low-level CMs who strangely feel compelled to protect the conglomerate from any criticism? Oh yeah.

Remember when the LA Times was banned from Disney PR events because it dared to criticize Iger?

Back when Disney raised ticket, hotel, food, and merch prices despite cutting live entertainment, night parades, and fireworks shows, fans leapt to Disney’s defense and said they preferred it that way because parades and shows were too crowded. What other company can rely on fans to defend price gouging?

And we still have people defending FP+ even though the company itself told shareholders it was specifically developed to redistribute crowd patterns and keep people in existing queues to avoid building new attractions. (Obviously, that plan didn’t work—and now we have New FL, Star Wars, Epcot changes, etc.)

But I suspect most of the current activity simply comes from people who are stuck at home with nothing else to do. I also understand if someone with no prior company or industry knowledge drops into these forums and wants to defend a company they admire.

 

[_caleb]

Even if all posts from new/mothballed accounts are just due to people having more time on their hands, I'm still curious about the whole dynamic of people being planted here to post with an agenda. The drama unfolded last August where someone (credible or not) accused people of posting with certain motives. When confronted, those members did not exactly give convincing responses. It bothers me because it makes the forums feel like we're not carrying on a conversation in good faith. At some point, it makes me feel quite strange to continue reading/interacting with what might be propaganda from mid-level reputation management actors. I find it fascinating that everyone here basically just carried on as though that hadn't happened, though I'm not exactly sure what else we could have done.

 

[Sonconato]

I'm so glad this thread came up again, Gary Snyder's article is absolutely fascinating to me. The depths of pre-planning by Mr. Iger and company to get where he is quite incredible. Hats off to you, Mr. Snyder, for laying it out for us.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I find it fascinating that everyone here basically just carried on as though that hadn't happened

My belief for why that was/is:

1) The article centers its narrative around the history of MiceChat/Al Lutz. Both of which are past their prime, and are unfamiliar to many Disney fans today

2) The article / story did not get picked up by other news outlets, so it was easy to dismiss as gossip (even if there was any truth to it)

2) Most Disney fan online discussion does not go much deeper than "how can I save money on a Mickey bar?" Deeper discussions are often criticized as unimportant (that such a thing happens in fan base circles is a whole other discussion)

4) Disney fans generally don't care about the how and why that leads to a finished product. They just want the product.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I should also add that scandals about things that happened several years ago do not have the impact of something happening now.

 

[Mouse Trap]

Random question: Why have so many chosen to believe anything Mr. Gary Snyder says, despite the fact he only has two articles credited to his name on Medium -- which is very easy to get an article up on.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Random question: Why have so many chosen to believe anything Mr. Gary Snyder says, despite the fact he only has two articles credited to his name on Medium -- which is very easy to get an article up on.

Not to go over everything already said in 70+ pages and two threads (now one deleted) since last August but the SHORT version is:

- Other people willing to offer evidence/views on what was stated
- General knowledge of how some companies, including Disney, behave online

Also there are many people with undeserved egos in the Disney fan community and they all seem to know/hate each other.

 

[MisterPenguin]

With regard to reactivated old accounts:

Just how many dormant accounts are there? I don't know, let's say over the past decade there are 500 of them.​

​

Now, let's say that off those 500, 5% of them are of the OPEN NOW! mindset. With time on their hands trolling the internet and being inflamed with like-minded extremists, they pop in on their old WDWMagic account to see what's happening with Disney. Of those possible 25 OPEN-NOW-ists, let's say 10 of them post their ridiculous arguments that ignore that we're in a pandemic and what our basic reasonable and scientific response should be.​

​

Well, it's going to seem like a coordinated effort when we get the continuous nutcase-argument-of-the week popping up on reactivated accounts.​

​

They only other explanation is that some group was creating WDWMagic accounts once a month for the past decade just so they can sow this type of discord in a time of civil unrest.​

​

In other words, you don't need a conspiracy to explain what is merely an emergent pattern of behavior.​

Now, let's take the case of people who defend cost hikes:

First of all: really? Just how often do people say, "Yes! It costs more to go to Disney! I'm so happy!!!" What's happening here is people not being upset as much as others about increasing cost, or, people who understand the rationale (regardless of whether they *like it*). Those very angry at a cost hike view those people as Disney cheerleaders, when that's not what's happening at all.​

​

More than likely, these people are either resigned to how the economics of businesses work, or, they have a lot of disposable income, and so, they aren't that affected by a cost hike.​

​

So, we see, again, you don't need a conspiracy of Disney hiring people to create fake accounts on WDWMagic continuously over the course of a decade just so they can reactivate those accounts to defend a cost hike (which isn't so much a defense as much as not being as angry).​

I'm not saying conspiracies can't exist. I'm saying there are more likely explanations. And if you're going to claim a conspiracy exists, you need more evidence than "it seems that way to me."

Remember: for every pixie duster that exists and is therefore 'evidence' that they are hired by Disney to be a Disney cheerleader, then that means for every hater on these boards who are constantly raging against Disney, that must mean they are being hired by Disney's rivals to tear Disney down. Right?

 

[TP2000]

But I suspect most of the current activity simply comes from people who are stuck at home with nothing else to do. I also understand if someone with no prior company or industry knowledge drops into these forums and wants to defend a company they admire.

I would completely agree with that. And I fully expect that's about all there is to it.

Schools are cancelled. 40 Million people have lost their job. The entire West Coast and most of the Northeast still won't let their citizens go out in public to parks, movies, bars, or any normal entertainment. What else are people going to do?

 

[Joesixtoe]

Officially steer it? No.

Support fans and low-level CMs who strangely feel compelled to protect the conglomerate from any criticism? Oh yeah.

Remember when the LA Times was banned from Disney PR events because it dared to criticize Iger?

Back when Disney raised ticket, hotel, food, and merch prices despite cutting live entertainment, night parades, and fireworks shows, fans leapt to Disney’s defense and said they preferred it that way because parades and shows were too crowded. What other company can rely on fans to defend price gouging?

And we still have people defending FP+ even though the company itself told shareholders it was specifically developed to redistribute crowd patterns and keep people in existing queues to avoid building new attractions. (Obviously, that plan didn’t work—and now we have New FL, Star Wars, Epcot changes, etc.)

But I suspect most of the current activity simply comes from people who are stuck at home with nothing else to do. I also understand if someone with no prior company or industry knowledge drops into these forums and wants to defend a company they admire.

I defend fastpass+ because I can ride almost any ride anytime I go. I go roughly twice a month with my wife. If maxpass came into play with its $15?? a person, that would be $30 per time.. $60 a month. I understand the appeal of maxpass and I'd have to deal with it if ever implemented, for me though fastpass+ works for my budget.

 

[LongballMG]

Less of the "old legacy message board" and how about "original legendary message board" - because lets face it - pretty much every site, blog, YouTuber has been through these forums at some point in their Disney fandom career

Those of us who have been here for nearly 20 years can attest that almost everyone who is a "name" came through our glorious site and boards.

In Steve we trust!

 

[tirian]

I defend fastpass+ because I can ride almost any ride anytime I go. I go roughly twice a month with my wife. If maxpass came into play with its $15?? a person, that would be $30 per time.. $60 a month. I understand the appeal of maxpass and I'd have to deal with it if ever implemented, for me though fastpass+ works for my budget.

For one or two people, it’s great. The new system at Tokyo would’ve been better though. The problem isn’t digital FP itself; it’s how Disney manipulates crowd control by inflating queues at restaurants and attractions. Parks with moderate crowd levels can feel extremely busy.

EDIT: I don’t want to derail this thread. You can read more about NextGen here.

News - Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I defend fastpass+ because I can ride almost any ride anytime I go. I go roughly twice a month with my wife. If maxpass came into play with its $15?? a person, that would be $30 per time.. $60 a month. I understand the appeal of maxpass and I'd have to deal with it if ever implemented, for me though fastpass+ works for my budget.

You don’t understand how negatively FP has effected the Disney theme park experience, from immersion to unneeded guest stress to parks with insufficient capacity.

 

[CanadianGordon]

The only reason that I don't post as often myself is because I am trying to limit the amount of time I spend sitting on my in front of my computer. I have a tendency to put off important things until it's almost too late and I'm trying to prepare myself for going back to school in the Fall. Can't exactly spend hours in front of my computer debating Disney theories any more.
It is interesting the differences in the two companies for reopening , and yet no one is talking about the trash fire that was Seaworld....

SeaWorld Orlando Update: A Rough Reopening Day (PART 1)

Daily news, rumors, and photo-reports from all of Central Florida's theme parks, water parks, minor attractions, and more!

www.orlandoparksnews.com

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So changing Splash Mountain has been in the works for a year?

What are the chances the online petitions and social media trends were encouraged, or even started, in house by those looking to take advantage of a politically charged moment?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

So changing Splash Mountain has been in the works for a year?

What are the chances the online petitions and social media trends were encouraged, or even started, in house by those looking to take advantage of a politically charged moment?

Good time to point out that Cory Doctorow, who currently doesn’t have a blogging home, tweeted out the first “shot” at Splash Mountain worked at WDI for a year as a “writer in residence”.

 

[TsWade2]

I don't, and you don't have to believe the Save Disney conspiracy to know that MiceChat are lairs looking for clicks. If the Medium article itself wasn't proof, MiceChat's reaction to all of this was.

It really comes down to a bunch of jealous queens (and one Log Cabin Republican) who don't get along. The Snyders were not amused at the recent "Al Lutz" article in part because it was just a regurgitation of posts made on this site (in particular the ones made by TP2000) and not anything particularly note worthy. That MiceChat also lied about Al coming out of retirement and Parkinson disease to write a somewhat unoriginal Disney gossip piece was enough to get them to write the counter-report. Obviously they also haven't liked MiceChat and their crew for some time.

I don't know about the Save Disney stuff, whether you believe that or not comes down to how much you trust the Snyders, which obviously many people don't, but it's not hard to imagine Dusty loving a working relationship with Disney. When you run a gossip column, you don't care where the gossip comes from. And when you get caught? You lash out at those "evil, evil, evil" people (that you know too well).

Now as @lazyboy97o says TP2000 and others are claiming an innocent person is at risk, but again they're not being specific and laughing it all off, which seems kind of insulting if true. Regardless, the MiceChat team very much wants to keep its imagine intact because, as I said in another thread, they don't want to loose clicks or status. And they're willing to lie, ban members and backtrack to keep the status quo.

But nobody here should care about the future of MiceChat IMO. At best, they're no longer the #1 source for Disney info and at worst, they're liars who want to play it both ways with Disney and their fans. This site and its members are better than that.

Exactly! I told everybody here in this website that Micechat is a lying piece of garbage, but nobody listens to me. Bravo for you, Animaniacs93-98!

 

[Brad Bishop]

I think it's pretty obvious that Disney uses the bloggers/vloggers as their propaganda machine. "You do what we say and you get access. You say a bad thing and you're cut off!"

I was thinking about this today when I saw that Genie was revealed replacing FP+

It looks like it'll tell you:
Free: "Now is a good time to go ride <whatever>" - so they're telling you what the old wait times used to tell you.
Paid: "This is FP+"
Per Ride: "You can pay $20/head to ride <whatever>"

...and of course you'll see all of the bloggers/vloggers come out and tell us how this is "a good thing". You'll also see the posts here with, "I'd be happy to pay $80 for my family to ride <whatever> once!" and the obligatory, "...if don't like it then that's just more room for me!"

FP+... I mean Genie... is now charged because: Why give it away for free? (This is how Bob thinks). If he looks on his spreadsheet he can see: "We spend $x on the FP system and it returns $0. We need to sell that. Don't leave anything on the shelf that we're not going to sell!"

"...but it's a business!"

Yep. It's always been a business. Before it was a business that was based upon guest experience and the story the people told when they got home about how great the experience was. It used that to generate nostalgia and future business. Now? Everything is for sale. It's about the bottom line. There shouldn't be ANYTHING on that spreadsheet that isn't being directly paid for by the customer.

I would bet that sometime in the near future we will see them charging for transportation. If you're staying onsite you'll have some kind of "transportation fee" of something like $50/head/week added but they'll call it "green" so everyone gets on board. "Well, we want to be "green" we should pay the fee." Non-resort guests will pay something like $20/head/day to ride their buses.

I just don't see them, with the current attitude, thinking that they can leave "free bus trips" on the table without people paying for them. You already have seen this with the Magical Express.

And people here will defend it as, "it's a good thing," because Disney "is a business" or some other excuse. They'll line up at the gates shouting, "TAKE MY MONEY!" <- and that is why Disney does this. They know, at least for right now, that because of nostalgia, they will be able to get hordes of people lining up at the gates paying whatever they ask.

As mentioned in another thread: I don't think that the current management understands:
1) how quickly they're burning through the years of built up nostalgia
2) that they really aren't creating new nostalgia at anywhere near the rate they used to.

For them, right now, and probably for the legacy of Bob, it'll be a good one. He'll burn through the nostalgia and sometime after that some other CEO is going to be left holding the bag when that nostalgia is all gone. Bob will say, "I don't know. I had people lined up at the gate when I was in charge! You're doing something wrong!"

 

[Christi22222]

This hurts to read, but nails it. ^^^^^

 

[po1998]

I think it's pretty obvious that Disney uses the bloggers/vloggers as their propaganda machine. "You do what we say and you get access. You say a bad thing and you're cut off!"

I was thinking about this today when I saw that Genie was revealed replacing FP+

It looks like it'll tell you:
Free: "Now is a good time to go ride <whatever>" - so they're telling you what the old wait times used to tell you.
Paid: "This is FP+"
Per Ride: "You can pay $20/head to ride <whatever>"

...and of course you'll see all of the bloggers/vloggers come out and tell us how this is "a good thing". You'll also see the posts here with, "I'd be happy to pay $80 for my family to ride <whatever> once!" and the obligatory, "...if don't like it then that's just more room for me!"

FP+... I mean Genie... is now charged because: Why give it away for free? (This is how Bob thinks). If he looks on his spreadsheet he can see: "We spend $x on the FP system and it returns $0. We need to sell that. Don't leave anything on the shelf that we're not going to sell!"

"...but it's a business!"

Yep. It's always been a business. Before it was a business that was based upon guest experience and the story the people told when they got home about how great the experience was. It used that to generate nostalgia and future business. Now? Everything is for sale. It's about the bottom line. There shouldn't be ANYTHING on that spreadsheet that isn't being directly paid for by the customer.

I would bet that sometime in the near future we will see them charging for transportation. If you're staying onsite you'll have some kind of "transportation fee" of something like $50/head/week added but they'll call it "green" so everyone gets on board. "Well, we want to be "green" we should pay the fee." Non-resort guests will pay something like $20/head/day to ride their buses.

I just don't see them, with the current attitude, thinking that they can leave "free bus trips" on the table without people paying for them. You already have seen this with the Magical Express.

And people here will defend it as, "it's a good thing," because Disney "is a business" or some other excuse. They'll line up at the gates shouting, "TAKE MY MONEY!" <- and that is why Disney does this. They know, at least for right now, that because of nostalgia, they will be able to get hordes of people lining up at the gates paying whatever they ask.

As mentioned in another thread: I don't think that the current management understands:
1) how quickly they're burning through the years of built up nostalgia
2) that they really aren't creating new nostalgia at anywhere near the rate they used to.

For them, right now, and probably for the legacy of Bob, it'll be a good one. He'll burn through the nostalgia and sometime after that some other CEO is going to be left holding the bag when that nostalgia is all gone. Bob will say, "I don't know. I had people lined up at the gate when I was in charge! You're doing something wrong!"

Well stated!