News EPCOT's Harmonious to be replaced with new nighttime spectacular Luminous

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

I heard from somewhere someone that the reason they delayed the release of Luminious was to change from all original music entirely into instead original and disney IP... now if it was original entirely maybe that would been the best show and the music wouldn't lack??

 

[TTA94]

Might have been that they wanted to make sure it wasn't Flop 2.0 before investing further considering it was hinted that there were additional plans that got cut.

If they are going to make changes or additions I wonder if this would happen in the near future before a larger amount of people see it in the Spring and Summer of 2024? Of course all depends on what the higher ups think of the show and if they are satisfied.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I heard from somewhere someone that the reason they delayed the release of Luminious was to change from all original music entirely into instead original and disney IP... now if it was original entirely maybe that would been the best show and the music wouldn't lack??

Original music is always perilous. What if people didn't like it?

Established well-liked IP means the music will be at least well-liked (to most people). That makes it safer. And it pleases a certain percentage of the population that actually want Disney IP.

 

[osian]

Original music is always perilous. What if people didn't like it?

Established well-liked IP means the music will be at least well-liked (to most people). That makes it safer. And it pleases a certain percentage of the population that actually want Disney IP.

What if people don't like the IP music, isn't that perilous too? We have already seen that, some people don't like what IP music was chosen, they say it doesn't fit with the narrative. Not many people would say they hate it because it didn't have IP if it was all original. I suspect more people would dislike it because it did have IP. If it was all original then even the most ardent cartoon fan probably wouldn't notice. It's not actually "normal" to want movie franchise music in everything and hate everything that doesn't. People wouldn't boycott it if it was all orchestral, symphonic original music. But people do boycott attractions targetted at cartoon lovers.

That's the whole problem. IP targets a particular demographic. Original stuff is for everyone.

Time they stopped relying on IP as a crutch and branched out a little. IP isn't a guarantee of success.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

What if people don't like the IP music, isn't that perilo7s too? We have already seen that,some people don't like what IP music was chosen, they say it doesn't fit with the narrative. Not many people would say they hate it because it didn't have IP if it was all original. I suspect more people would dislike it because it did have IP. If it was all original then even the most ardent cartoon fan probably wouldn't notice. It's not actually "normal" to want movie franchise music in everything and hate everything that doesn't. People wouldn't boycott it if it was all orchestral, symphonic original music. But people do boycott attractions targetted at cartoon lovers.

That's the whole problem. IP targets a particular demographic. Original stuff is for everyone.

because it's at Disney, people come to Disney for Disney stuff - or at least that is the thinking, and I view it as very "normal" to want Disney music when at Disney

They can have a show with all original music anywhere or generic pop music anywhere - you can only see a show with Disney music at Disney

 

[osian]

because it's at Disney, people come to Disney for Disney stuff - or at least that is the thinking, and I view it as very "normal" to want Disney music when at Disney

They can have a show with all original music anywhere or generic pop music anywhere - you can only see a show with Disney music at Disney

Epcot? People come to Epcot because they want to hear Disney (movie) music? You're right about Disney "stuff", but that's not exclusively (movie) music. It's imagineering it's innovation, it's fun rides and attractions, it's attention to detail, its theming. It's what makes Disney theme parks stand out amongst the rest. Not Disney (movie) music. Music is indeed part of the theme park experience, and you'd be amazed how much theme park music does not actually come from a movie. Because ambience is another thing that Disney excels at.

No, you can't hear original music anywhere. That's the whole point!

And you can hear Disney (movie) music anywhere. You don't have to spend thousands to do so. If most people are so addicted to Disney (movie) music that they need to hear it then they can do that any time they want, in high quality.

 

[James Alucobond]

I think a mixture is the best you’re going to do. The park itself is a mixture now, so the show will and probably should be reflective of that, whether you like it or not. An all-original show wasn’t as confusing in the past when the entire park set that expectation; now, when you have people getting film IP during the day, they are naturally a bit confused by things like EPCOT Forever at night.

 

[osian]

I think a mixture is the best you’re going to do. The park itself is a mixture now, so the show will and probably should be reflective of that, whether you like it or not. An all-original show wasn’t as confusing in the past when the entire park set that expectation; now, when you have people getting film IP during the day, they are naturally a bit confused by things like EPCOT Forever at night.

Yes, Disney is catering to the confused people lol! It's all conditioning and marketing.

 

[wbostic12]

I think a mixture is the best you’re going to do. The park itself is a mixture now, so the show will and probably should be reflective of that, whether you like it or not. An all-original show wasn’t as confusing in the past when the entire park set that expectation; now, when you have people getting film IP during the day, they are naturally a bit confused by things like EPCOT Forever at night.

I agree, although I feel like EPCOT Forever ended up confusing to everyone.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes, Disney is catering to the confused people lol! It's all conditioning and marketing.

I like the combination, and I don’t consider myself confused.

 

[OSUPhantom]

Yes, Disney is catering to the confused people lol! It's all conditioning and marketing.

People can like things without being confused or “conditioned”. This is all a matter of opinion and I don’t think it’s helpful to say people who like the show or inclusion of IP are “confused”.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Epcot? People come to Epcot because they want to hear Disney (movie) music? You're right about Disney "stuff", but that's not exclusively (movie) music. It's imagineering it's innovation, it's fun rides and attractions, it's attention to detail, its theming. It's what makes Disney theme parks stand out amongst the rest. Not Disney (movie) music. Music is indeed part of the theme park experience, and you'd be amazed how much theme park music does not actually come from a movie. Because ambience is another thing that Disney excels at.

No, you can't hear original music anywhere. That's the whole point!

And you can hear Disney (movie) music anywhere. You don't have to spend thousands to do so. If most people are so addicted to Disney (movie) music that they need to hear it then they can do that any time they want, in high quality.

Sure - EPCOT is a Disney park, always has been - and lots of types of Disney music, doesn't have to be from movies, but it can be

So only Disney is allowed to make original music? No other parks can make original music?

And you can't go to Dollywood or Cedar Fair parks or Hershey park and hear Disney music - lots of people go to Disney for Disney .... been going since 1984 myself, for Disney stuff - which can take lots of shapes and forms of course - and not confused at all

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

I agree, although I feel like EPCOT Forever ended up confusing to everyone.

I wasn't there nor knowledge all those old attractions at Epcot for me to be confused. You have to acknowledge Epcot had a past start whether you was part of it or not. If Disneyland showcased a 100 years show on those old rare classics or attractions long gone would everyone be confused?....

People were so harsh about a Whole New World for Epcot Forever which I understood why they included that song because of Walt's Epcot vision. Now people find the Toy Story part in Luminous why is it there new Toy Story ride?

 

[trainplane3]

Original music is always perilous. What if people didn't like it?

Established well-liked IP means the music will be at least well-liked (to most people). That makes it safer. And it pleases a certain percentage of the population that actually want Disney IP.

On the flip side, adding IP music to RoL absolutely tanked that whole show and guest reception proved it. The flow was completely ruined thanks to sticking the music in without designing a show around it. IP isn't the thing that can guarantee a hit. Heck, even look at Harmonious. So much work on completely redone songs that were tossed out less then 2 years after debut.

Not arguing with you since you know this stuff, just making an opposing point.

I agree, although I feel like EPCOT Forever ended up confusing to everyone.

Debut night. You had to be there. Most fans were onboard then came the complete whiplash of the finale song. I still didn't mind the show in its initial form but "A Whole New World" was the biggest misstep of that whole show.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

On the flip side, adding IP music to RoL absolutely tanked that whole show and guest reception proved it. The flow was completely ruined thanks to sticking the music in without designing a show around it. IP isn't the thing that can guarantee a hit. Heck, even look at Harmonious. So much work on completely redone songs that were tossed out less then 2 years after debut.

Not arguing with you since you know this stuff, just making an opposing point.


Debut night. You had to be there. Most fans were onboard then came the complete whiplash of the finale song. I still didn't mind the show in its initial form but "A Whole New World" was the biggest misstep of that whole show.

I disagree

People weren't paying attention to Walt...that section brought back the Walt drawing board..

So why would everyone be furious over a sneak peak of IP when they know Harmonious would be IP... now with Luminous the opinions aren't at all by the original songs but those select IP songs.

People wanted We Go On or a finale song that's Epcot but Epcot Forever celebrated marked with Walt visioning a whole new city community of tomorrow. It made us remember that it was Walts Idea in the first place....paving to the Walt Statue.

 

[Disney Analyst]

What I know is this ... Disney Parks will leverage Disney IP as much as possible, that is the directive and that is the direction. Theoretically the general / majority Disney Park attendee wants to see and experience Disney IP, the stuff they know and love.

While I do believe Disney can, should, and may very well do some original rides or shows in the parks again (see Mystic Manor, etc.), I do not think that is going to be the norm, and it's better to move forward in life acknowledging that.

 

[LittleBuford]

What I know is this ... Disney Parks will leverage Disney IP as much as possible, that is the directive and that is the direction. Theoretically the general / majority Disney Park attendee wants to see and experience Disney IP, the stuff they know and love.

While I do believe Disney can, should, and may very well do some original rides or shows in the parks again (see Mystic Manor, etc.), I do not think that is going to be the norm, and it's better to move forward in life acknowledging that.

I may be in the minority, but I have no strong feelings one way or the other. So long as the attraction/show in question is well done, I don’t care if it’s original or IP.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

What I know is this ... Disney Parks will leverage Disney IP as much as possible, that is the directive and that is the direction. Theoretically the general / majority Disney Park attendee wants to see and experience Disney IP, the stuff they know and love.

While I do believe Disney can, should, and may very well do some original rides or shows in the parks again (see Mystic Manor, etc.), I do not think that is going to be the norm, and it's better to move forward in life acknowledging that.

Fully agree (basically what I was trying to say but you did so much more effectively and efficiently)

I do hope they think about IP as potentially working both ways - that they could create an original attraction and build IP out of that (Mystic Manor is an example of how they could do D+ shows, movies, merchandise, video games, etc based on that attraction)

 

[Disney Analyst]

I may be in the minority, but I have no strong feelings one way or the other. So long as the attraction/show in question is well done, I don’t care if it’s original or IP.

I agree. The only important metric for me is quality.

If it’s done well, it doesn’t really matter to me.

 

[Chef idea Mickey`=]

On the flip side, adding IP music to RoL absolutely tanked that whole show and guest reception proved it. The flow was completely ruined thanks to sticking the music in without designing a show around it. IP isn't the thing that can guarantee a hit. Heck, even look at Harmonious. So much work on completely redone songs that were tossed out less then 2 years after debut.

Not arguing with you since you know this stuff, just making an opposing point.


Debut night. You had to be there. Most fans were onboard then came the complete whiplash of the finale song. I still didn't mind the show in its initial form but "A Whole New World" was the biggest misstep of that whole show.

The Disney Team knew what they were doing..Epcot Forever was not a tribute show to Epcot. It was a looking ahead (Just like when Walt was looking ahead behind the proposal drawing board in his time) Walt was the creator behind Epcot even if how it turned out he couldn't be there for it's existence. Epcot was admist new change and looking back to what Epcot was is the same as we looked Epcot now and embracing what would be next..no matter what it's all Epcot.

Epcot is actually Walt's original only reason interested in the Florida Project.. it was to be His Sharing of a Whole New World, a new way to live and work unlike anything ever done...