Epcot or DHS??

[krankenstein]

This one is simple, it's DHS. Even though EPCOT Center has morphed into Epcot, it still hits the majority of the message it was originally intended to hit. It might not be the same as it used to be, but it still brings joy, hope, and inspiration to the people who enter.

DHS has completely lost its identity. The park has no clear indication of what it was supposed to be. The Hat ruined the Hollywood that never was feel of Hollywood Blvd., RNRC's facade doesn't fit in with the rest of Sunset (it looks like it should be in the backlot somewhere), the backlot tour is a horrible, animation has become a joke without the people actually working, the GMR has lost relevance with the youth and young adults of today's society, the list goes on and on. Plus, the whole working studio part is dead. That officially killed the original intent of the park.

 

[krankenstein]

Does DHS have a theme or direction?

The dedication plague pretty much sums up what the park was originally suppose to be about:

"The world you have entered was created by the Walt Disney Company & is dedicated to Hollywood - not a place on a map, but a state of mind that exists wherever people dream & wonder & imagine, a place where illusion & reality are fused by technological magic. We welcome you to a Hollywood that never was - and always will be."

 

[blackthidot]

Epcot

 

[raven]

Of course, in the "good old days" pretty much EVERY Future World pavilion dealt with the future by devoting most of its space to looking back into the past, almost completely dodging having to make too many futuristic prognostications. Which is actually a well used bait-and-switch tactic Disney has been using forever. Because it works!

Because you have to know where you've been before you know where you're going.

I think Disney, very early on, realized that they could not sustain Epcot as a purely educational park. Initial attendance was low and many people, especially kids, were not showing a lot of enthusiasm for the park. In this day and age where thrill rides are king I think Disney felt it was changing with the times and the almighty dollar. Epcot is still my favorite park but, thrill rides sell tickets, hydroponics don't.

Exactly. I hear people constantly complain about the turn that Epcot has made to incorporate Disney characters but it is a business. And when attendence gets low they listen to what their guests want and they complied. Now Epcot is booming like never before.

 

[PLeyava]

Wolf359, great explanation, loved every word of it, and I have some to add.

As you stated Wolf359, people put WAY too much effort in the word FUTURE of Future World. Let me point out something most people miss or ingnore, Tomorrowland. Is Tomorrowland anything like the future is or will be going? No, most likely not, BUT, was it suppose to be? No. Look at the poster when walking into MK and you'll see that Tomorrowland is "The future that never was...is here today!" That explains itself, and like Wolf359 says, I think Future World is fine and future-istic enough.

Also, back in the day when EPCOT was built, technology evolved very slowly. Now-a-days, it changes very very quickly, a little too quickly to keep up on everything, so give Disney some slack there. Everyone knows when you buy a brand new computer, in 1 month it's old news and no longer sold, so go easy on them for that.

And Universe of Energy is being refurbed right now, but I don't think it's a huge refurb like it needs to be, I'll give that one to you guys, it's need to be...something else.

 

[muteki]

Well, I will admit I know too little about the origins and background of DHS to make a judgement on its current state and how that compares, but it is a mess. Especially me being OCD about most things, the layout kinda drives me nuts.

On the other hand, Future World was generally a misnomer about the content of the attractions when the parked open, and that is even more true today. The "futureness" of the park was really only skin deep, and once you got past the architecture very little was there.

The only pavilions with content that really fit the "future" theme:

SSE: in it's '94-'07 incarnation, everything from the climax through the descent was quite futuristic, and for the most part it was correct with the current state of communications today.

Horizons: while a fantasy first and foremost, it was very forward thinking.

WoM: had the showroom but that was about it.

Land: The farming methods outlined here are still futuristic, even today.

Seas: The "underwater sub base" idea was quite a futuristic setting.

Of course, today Horizons is gone, and any futuristic leanings Seas had was removed. The showroom at TT might have next years models, but thats it, and it will likely change soon anyway. Imagination and WoL never had anything to do with the future, and I always saw UoE as propaganda that our current sources of energy was good enough.

World Showcase is, for the most part, as good as it ever was and really these days the key thing that sets the park apart.

So I guess, if the intent of Epcot is to educate and entertain, it fits that quite well, but if you perceive Epcot to be "Future World" obviously you will be disappointed because it certainly doesn't fit that, and in many cases, never really did. (though that is a topic in and of itself)

 

[PLeyava]

Don't count on TT changing anytime soon, no reason for a huge change, plus it's OHRC is great.

Plus, they have added futuristic pavilions, the whole fuel cell concepts pavilion inside TT is open now, it's ideas and concepts not out today, so it's somewhat futuristic.

 

[cblodg]

DHS, though seems to be a mishmash of various lands, still has it's movies and shows and stunt shows. Granted, it's intent to have a working studio is gone and to the detriment of the park, in my opinion of course. The idea of 'The Hollywood that never way, and always will be' kinda stops after Sunset Blvd. and becomes a wash of various areas, but again, these are viewed as set pieces.

EPCOT has shifted because it really couldn't continue being the park that educated. Though I think we're starting to see a little more of the education creep back in, in the form of the Kim Possible challenges. Epcot still has it's educational centers in it's garden tours and the Land pavillion still hits it's message. The issue arises when we think of Future World. A lot of people feel that this should be showing us the technology of tomorrow. The issue bing that by the time they showcase the Technology of Tomorrow, it's already old hat. So, for all the travels into the past, it shows us how far we have come. About the only thing I find interesting about the Seas with Nemo is the queue area. Not a big fan of the 'Nemofication' / 'Pixarfication' of certain Disney attractions.

I'm straying from my original post of EPCOT, because both have strayed, but Epcot now seems to be bringing back more education and learning in a very interactive way.

 

[muteki]

Don't count on TT changing anytime soon, no reason for a huge change, plus it's OHRC is great.

Plus, they have added futuristic pavilions, the whole fuel cell concepts pavilion inside TT is open now, it's ideas and concepts not out today, so it's somewhat futuristic.

I'm not predicting huge change with TT, but if GM were to back out I would think the showroom would change. If it would be something completely different or if the GM models simply removed, its anyone's guess.

The Fuel Cell stuff is definitely a great idea, and the focus of anything that goes in that space should be something along those lines.

 

[imagineer boy]

Future World's name really should be changed to "Discovery World" in a sence that discovering things like new technological advancements help pave the way for the future and all the pavillions could emphasise that.

 

[heliumalias]

There's ONE pavilion with characters. ONE! .

Actually I count 3: Mexico (Donald), The Land (Lion King) and The Living Seas (Nemo). I'm ignoring figment as he was created for Epcot.


I would say that DHS has strayed considering that it was once a working studios. Now they've taken al the fun out of it.

 

[Tiggerish]

I'll take the hydrolators over the clam mobiles anyday!

Me, Too!!

I even liked the deluge movie...

Turtle Talk was/is a good addition; it serves as a good avenue to interest small children in the pavilion. But the Nemo ride (IMO) has dumbed the place down to such a level that I'm no longer interested, really. Now I will go in the exit door and look at the aquarium, or I will have dinner in Coral Reef, and that's the extent of it.

I'm not bitter about it or anything, and I don't begrudge those who love the new "Nemo" pavilion, but I preferred the original Living Seas.



That having been said, I do agree with the several finely-crafted reasonings that it is DHS that has strayed the MOST from its original intent.

 

[cblodg]

Actually I count 3: Mexico (Donald), The Land (Lion King) and The Living Seas (Nemo). I'm ignoring figment as he was created for Epcot.


I would say that DHS has strayed considering that it was once a working studios. Now they've taken al the fun out of it.

On my most recent trip on the last week of Feb. I saw more characters in WS then I ever have! It was like each country had it's own.

 

[SirGoofy]

Actually I count 3: Mexico (Donald), The Land (Lion King) and The Living Seas (Nemo). I'm ignoring figment as he was created for Epcot.

I'm sorry, one pavilion solely dedicated to characters.

 

[gettingsmaller]

To me, EPCOT is the saddest of the two... "Future World" USED to be forward-looking and futuristic... you felt like you had walked into the future--or were at least LOOKING into the future. I think that's one of the worst things about the character integration. It completely changes the focus...

As for which one is furthest from its original intent... tough--because the studios were originally intended to BE STUDIOS, right?

Still, I'd say that Epcot has had the biggest "fall from glory"...

EDIT: by "EPCOT is the saddest of the two", I meant that it is more sad to see EPCOT in its current state vs. old state than it is to see DHS in its current state vs. old state. EPCOT is still my favorite (or maybe tied with MK), but I wonder if some of that favoritism is being sentimental about EPCOT Center...

 

[Enchantâmes]

Epcot as it stands today is in somewhat better shape than is was in 2004-2006. But I think the last time Epcot really felt complete was back in 1994-1997.

DHS hasn't stayed much other than not being an actual studio. But it wasn't much of an actual studio to begin with. :shrug:

 

[gettingsmaller]

Epcot as it stands today is in somewhat better shape than is was in 2004-2006. But I think the last time Epcot really felt complete was back in 1994-1997.

DHS hasn't stayed much other than not being an actual studio. But it wasn't much of an actual studio to begin with. :shrug:

Well, I was blessed enough to visit EPCOT Center before Living Seas was completed. So, my idea of "old EPCOT" is OLD EPCOT is pretty old... But I did also get to visit in the late 90s, and would say that it was pretty cool then, too. Horizons was still going, but I think TT was still being built, so no WoM . Also, the WoL pavilion was open... My kids would have liked the "experiments" in there... too bad they closed it up...

 

[Figment632]

Future World's name really should be changed to "Discovery World" in a sence that discovering things like new technological advancements help pave the way for the future and all the pavillions could emphasise that.

I think they actually considered this?

 

[gustaftp]

I think they actually considered this?

Yes, as part of Project Gemini.

Thank goodness it didn't ever move forward.

 

[CaptainMichael]

EPCOT is still amazing and nothing will change that. World Showcase and SSE automatically make EPCOT = Win.

DHS still fails even though it is getting better.