Epcot New York

THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I wonder if some of the people at the Disney Company are waiting to see how long it takes some of the other large development companies to realize that they can alternatively build this project and that it will be extremely profitable. I think I might even write to President Elect Trump and see if he'll get the ball rolling. I just think it makes more sense for Disney to build a second EPCOT park in the exact place where Walt Disney created transcending attractions and inspired himself to create EPCOT and begin to build Disney World. At least with The Disney Company building it, you know you can guarantee it will be extremely entertaining for everyone and still definitely have that strong heart warmingly wholesome quality to it. In any case it just makes total sense to build this important culturally enhancing and societal progressing project.
You can replicate every non Disney Epcot attraction from corner to corner as long as every show and attraction has a different name and music. Figment and Dreamfinder would need some altering as well. And yes where entering a time of oppertunity where dreamers can achieve their goals and I'm taking full advantage of that.
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
Let's concentrate on making the one Epcot great again before we even think about world domination LOL. But seriously have we learned nothing of the foibles of opening park after park elsewhere? The attention that they pay (and the money they spend) to the crown jewel gets diluted by their distracted focus. There should be no further thought given elsewhere until all current attractions at Epcot are fully updated and all closed off empty spaces are opened and given their come uppins'.

That having been said I am in Southeast PA and would not really be drawn to NYC for a vacation. Just not my cup of tea even if it is Disney. I hate to say it but considering what the areas I have visited in NYC look like I picture the park getting trashed on a daily basis and Maintenance and custodial simply not being able to keep up. Don't hate on me Empire Staters...just one guys honest opinion.
I agree that EPCOT fell behind on the company's promise, that it would continuously focus on entertainment that was going to educate and inspire us to be a part of ultra modern technologies that would create a better world. Although, I believe building this second EPCOT in New York will help reemerge the EPCOT in Florida as the centerpiece of Walt Disney World. I truly believe the company can create a great synergy between the two parks and make the EPCOT theme parks their most popular parks, which will result in better and better attractions featured at each EPCOT theme park that are much more relevant to building a better world with ultra modern and futuristic technologies.
 
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THECARISMINE

Active Member
I think I can speak for everyone in Queens when I say this, NO. Dream elsewhere. I've lived in Flushing my entire life, I'm a disney fanatic to the point where my family goes every year and nearly every spot of our house is somehow decorated with a disney character. Our Christmas tree has a monorail currently circling it and I still can't even imagine what a nightmare this scenario would be. With the pressure on the 7 train since it's expansion and the sudden hipster intrest in Flushing there is already a crazy amount of change happening over here. Yes, the park is and has always been a pretty gross mess, it would be amazing to see some love brought to it, especially honoring it's great past. There has been alot of talk of change coming to the park as well. (granted there's always been.) But, It would be a literal nightmare to see an 'amusement park' of any size or fashion built in that area. This subject alone kinda made me queezy haha. In another world, at another time, this would have been an amazing dream. But not today, not in the state of the area, not with state of the MTA, just no. If Walt had presued a vision of a park in the location of the old fair when the idea was fresh, Flushing would not have grown into what it has become. Heck, New York in general would be hardly recognizable to what it is today. Over the recent years the place has been cleaned up substantially but there's no pretending like you wouldn't be rightfully jumped wondering into the park at night, or worse. The area needs a fresh start but this idea would be WAY to stressful on it's current situation. (That's not even mentioning the fact that the park itself is alot smaller then it may seem...)

Also, to add to the fair retrospective idea, we have one in the Queens museum, it's not a massive welcome center by any means but it is very respectfully done. If Disney were to contribute anything, a new wing to showcase how important Walt and the company were in the fair would be an amazing addition.

And as others mentioned, dude, last winter we hit negative and they are saying to brace ourselves for a worse winter this year....
 
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larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Great idea to reuse abandoned municipal properties. For a history lesson on how NOT to do it, see these pages talking about Six Flags' Baltimore Power Plant project...
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
I think I can speak for everyone in Queens when I say this, NO. Dream elsewhere. I've lived in Flushing my entire life, I'm a disney fanatic to the point where my family goes every year and nearly every spot of our house is somehow decorated with a disney character. Our Christmas tree has a monorail currently circling it and I still can't even imagine what a nightmare this scenario would be. With the pressure on the 7 train since it's expansion and the sudden hipster intrest in Flushing there is already a crazy amount of change happening over here. Yes, the park is and has always been a pretty gross mess, it would be amazing to see some love brought to it, especially honoring it's great past. There has been alot of talk of change coming to the park as well. (granted there's always been.) But, It would be a literal nightmare to see an 'amusement park' of any size or fashion built in that area. This subject alone kinda made me queezy haha. In another world, at another time, this would have been an amazing dream. But not today, not in the state of the area, not with state of the MTA, just no. If Walt had presued a vision of a park in the location of the old fair when the idea was fresh, Flushing would not have grown into what it has become. Heck, New York in general would be hardly recognizable to what it is today. Over the recent years the place has been cleaned up substantially but there's no pretending like you wouldn't be rightfully jumped wondering into the park at night, or worse. The area needs a fresh start but this idea would be WAY to stressful on it's current situation. (That's not even mentioning the fact that the park itself is alot smaller then it may seem...)

Also, to add to the fair retrospective idea, we have one in the Queens museum, it's not a massive welcome center by any means but it is very respectfully done. If Disney were to contribute anything, a new wing to showcase how important Walt and the company were in the fair would be an amazing addition.

And as others mentioned, dude, last winter we hit negative and they are saying to brace ourselves for a worse winter this year....
Ever since Men in Black, doesn't Universal hold the rights to those structures?
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
You can replicate every non Disney Epcot attraction from corner to corner as long as every show and attraction has a different name and music. Figment and Dreamfinder would need some altering as well. And yes where entering a time of oppertunity where dreamers can achieve their goals and I'm taking full advantage of that.
I agree that another company can deliver the same high level quality of family entertainment for the entire family as the Walt Disney Company does, although that is a very very high bar to top, and even the Disney company itself sometimes has trouble with the balancing act of cultural content that has earned them such a trusted name and reputation.
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
The park definitely has enough land to use. The park itself is nearly one and half square miles. I know the highways that cross the park make it seem somewhat smaller, but the developing company (hopefully Disney) can use ultra modern people movers to transport people beneath the highways to connect each section of the park. They can then hide the abutting highways and neighborhoods with using extraordinarily beautiful architecture of faux mountains and similar strategically placed aesthetically pleasing barrier structures. I agree just building "some amusement park" is not worth the huge investment or disturbance. Although, this is not about that. This is about building an awesome, inspiring place and place that will be a game changer for the collective mind and culture of New York. This is about building a place that will do a whole lot more of good things for the culture of New York, than things like drugs and music supporting crime, violence, and other immoral behavior have done bad things for the culture of New York. If built correctly, this place will bring everyone up to the same level of looking towards the future, and having each person asking them-self "how can I be in a profession that will help make this possible future become reality". If built correctly, this place will inspire all visitors who go there to have a much better perspective on the collective soul of humanity and our goal for peace, respect, and love throughout the world (and Universe for us really forward thinkers). About the MTA: Ok, this part of the project is critical. A new monorail needs to be built linking: the Jamaica LIRR Station, the site of the EPCOT New York park and hotel, Citi Field, the US Open Tennis stadium, LaGuardia International Airport, and the proposed convention center and retail and entertainment complex. That entire stretch is only 6 miles. Politicians have already proposed such a transit project just to link LaGuardia International Airport to Jamaica LIRR Station, therefore linking it to the main line of the Long Island Rail Road and the Air Train to JFK International Airport. The reason why this transit line was never built was because they proposed to use a very thunderous boxy rail car that moves on noisy metal wheels on metal rails, people mover - the "Air Train". The surrounding communities were able to get this project rejected because of the much noise that the proposed people mover would have generated, disturbing their neighborhoods. A Disney style and quality monorail is a much smarter engineered form of transportation and would absolutely not cause a noise problem. It can also fix the current traffic problems, if they build the monorail correctly, traffic flow will be much better than it is now because a very large number of New Yorkers will use the monorail via the main line of the Long Island Rail Road to attend events in the Flushing area. It will also tremendously help revitalize the local economy in the Flushing area of Queens by allowing the proposed convention center and retail and entertainment complex to be built next to Citi Field. It's not always easy to make the world better, but if we build and utilize a smart master planner and make the proper investments, the results are much more than worth it!
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THEMEPARKPIONEER

Well-Known Member
I agree that another company can deliver the same high level quality of family entertainment for the entire family as the Walt Disney Company does, although that is a very very high bar to top, and even the Disney company itself sometimes has trouble with the balancing act of cultural content that has earned them such a trusted name and reputation.
I've been working on my Lands of Wonder for 15 years, possibly longer than Disney has been planning Disneyland, but if I ever had the chance to build this place I will have had just as much time to perfect it like Disney did with Disney World
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
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The Magic of the Deal: Win - Win

The land can be given from New York City to the Disney Company for free in order to build Epcot New York; in exchange Disney will agree to provide free field trips to Epcot New York for all New York City school kids. Epcot New York can be a part of the school curriculum for every single student growing up in New York City. For example: Each student can be guaranteed a free field trip with their class during the grades of 4th ,8th, and 11th. The students can therefore also be studying in school the subjects that relate to the attractions and exhibits featured at Epcot New York. This is the perfect example of how Epcot New York can educate and inspire through the magic of Disney entertainment. The State University of New York and Brookhaven National Laboratory can work with Disney to choose subjects that will be the most beneficial to society to incorporate as main ideas in the story-lines of the attractions and theming throughout Epcot New York.
 
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Vinny

Member
Original Poster
I am looking forward to finishing my letter to send to President Elect Trump to see if he'll help get this project going. I hope he can talk to companies like Bombardier or Hitachi and negotiate with them to provide a Disney style Monorail at a reasonable price. I better hurry up though because New York is already about to get ripped off for a $450 million dollar price tag, only 1.5 mile length, mini subway line in the sky, connecting LaGuardia Airport to the Citi Field subway and LIRR station. That's directly next to Epcot New York.

Here's why a monorail is the best option for providing mass transportation to link up Epcot New York, and the other local attractions, to the transportation hubs of LaGuardia Airport and the Jamaica LIRR Hub. :
1. It can handle the large capacity of people that this 6 mile transit line will require. Disney Monorails handle multitudes of the capacity of light rail systems like the JFK Air Train.
2. If negotiated well, it can be bought for a relatively much lower price than the planned, only 1.5 mile, LaGuardia Air Train (light rail car), which has a budget of $450 million already! The 8 mile long JFK Air Train (light rail car) ended up costing 1.9 billion! I believe that was a real rip off, because the JFK Air Train is a much inferior form of transportation than a Disney Monorail. The JFK Air Train has a somewhat bumpy ride and makes very loud metal screeching noises, and it doesn't fit into it's environment, not nearly as perfectly as a Disney monorail. It blocks a lot more sight from the surrounding environment.
Here is what mass transportation is supposed to look like:
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3. A Disney styled monorail is an extremely quiet, comfortable, and fast form of transportation. The only upgrade a Disney monorail would need to be best suited for this project is safety walkways for evacuation placed in between the two monorail beams. Or in the case like above just add an architecturally appealing walkway with a complimenting handrail. Here's an example of an visually appealing handrail: The more light that isn't blocked the better.
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The beautiful aesthetics and comfort of a Disney monorail
The progressive and very positive perspective on the world that a Disney monorail gives its commuters is immeasurable. The way that a passenger can seemingly just float above the world to their destination is awesome! If I were the head architect I would ensure that all of the visual details were immaculate. This would include all the support coulumns, guideway beams, and safety walkways all being very architecturally visually appealing.
Here's one idea for making the columns more visually appealing.
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This railing could go with a safety walkway and would match aesthetically to make it still very visually appealing with that column design above:
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Or, what if the columns were rounded with ornamentation like a Greek or Roman column? And maybe even add the greenery that is seen above to that as well!

I don't understand how our master planners pass up such great opportunities to build such beautiful things!

And here's one or two ideas of overcoming the seemingly ransom that Bombardier and Hitachi is holding over the transformative technology that is the Disney or ALWEG styled monorail:
The City of Kuala Lumpur has a very inspiring story of where they decided they wanted an ALWEG style (Disney type) Monorail, but they could not afford the high, probably very inflated, price of a Hitachi Monorail. So they engineered their own monorail company, Monorail Malaysia, and built it themselves. That company, now Scomi Engineering, has gone on to build more monorail projects in India and Brazil. It has been reported that the Bombardier and Hitachi monorail projects can cost between $70 to $110 million per mile, while Scomi can build an ALWEG style monorail for under $30 million per mile. I'm sure that the Bombardier monorail, which is the current supplier to Disney in the US, is a superior product, although is it really two or three times superior? The Monorail Malaysia project is very inspiring and makes me question what can be done here in America if we had some of our own more loyal patriotic companies here in America do their very best to engineer a Disney style (ALWEG type) monorail. We can transform all of our inner cities at cost and replace the elevated subways to bring the sunlight and pleasurable views back into those qualifying neighborhoods.
Or a simpler and possibly easier solution, is we leverage our already very considerable relationship that exists with Bombardier. I'm not sure how many billions of dollars we give them, but I do know that we buy many many fleets of subways and trains from them.

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But so far this is what we're getting: for $450 million for 1.5 miles!! I know the concrete guy is at least happy with this design, lol


I really hope President Elect Trump can save us and help us get a Disney styled monorail with added safety walkways.

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It seems that the transportation companies and the people serving as our transit authorities have it rigged so we in America can't get what we deserve: which is safe, comfortable, and also attractive forms of mass transportation that allow real estate development to prosper next to transit lines. And also we deserve having that technology provided at the fair and affordable prices. But I think bringing their practices to the light of the media may be what is needed. It's really simple to design safe, comfortable, and beautiful forms of mass transportation at a reasonable price. The MTA does not work well at planning. I really don't understand why our government gives so much business to these transportation companies who clearly take advantage of us and do not try to supply us with the proper and best technologies when they are given the opportunity. They are only just starting to put smart crash preventive controls on our trains, and they are charging us another big time bill for it too, and they say the technology won't be ready for years. Kawasaki Rail Car charged the Long Island Rail Road $377 million for only 92 new rail cars and these cars don't even have enough room allocated in them for the positive train controls (crash preventive technology) that is Federally mandated, set aside the fact that the technology is not included!. We need great master planners in our country who wants us to have the best transportation technologies.
 
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Satans Hockey

Active Member
As someone who lives around here this is absolutely delusional and there is 0 shot of this ever happening. The Jets couldn't even get a stadium built in the city which would have also maybe gotten us the summer Olympics. Thankfully those all got denied because the Olympics here would be a nightmare and I wouldn't have gone anywhere during that time period so I was thrilled when we lost that bid.

I can't even imagine the traffic nightmare with this place being opened plus in September when the US open Tennis and Mets playing at the same time. Yes a lot of us take public transportation here but it's still really limited for a lot of us and I absolutely hate it. I drive pretty much every where because I hate it that much plus it's also not very feasible for most of the surrounding area to get to this location via public transportation without it taking way over an hour depending on your location.

Another thing I didn't see posted here is there was building a soccer stadium in the park area as well for the major league soccer team NYCFC. The city has shot that down numerous times as well.

It's a nice idea though.
 
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thomas998

Well-Known Member
I think some people have forgotten why Disney World was plopped down in Orlando area in the first place.
1) land was very cheap, pretty much a swamp so no one was trying to do anything with it except maybe hunt gators.
2) weather was pretty much good year round, which is kind of nice if you plan on being open year round.
3) state regulations were loose.
4) labor was cheap.

Now of those 4 mentioned things how many would apply to any place in New York City area? None. The land wouldn't be cheap, the weather blows chunks in the winter, the state regulations are insane, labor is very expensive with unionization rampant especially in construction.... No way in the world anyone in their right mind would want to build a large theme park like EPCOT in that area... to just break even you would probably have to charge people $500/day maybe more and only really be open maybe 8 months out of the year.
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
Is the monorail worth the trouble of negotiations? My number one concern is passenger safety. I found a lot of sources that claim monorails have the best safety records out of all forms of transportation! That's really impressive and interesting if that's true! If I were the master planner and decided to use a monorail system for my infrastructure project, though I would make sure that I would build a great (and aesthetically beautiful) safety walkway to attach to the beam-way for added protection. As long as the columns of the monorail, beam, and safety walkway were all designed to be very visually appealing the monorail will hold onto it's aesthetically pleasing presence. The reason why this is also important is because this technology really can transform neighborhoods that would have otherwise not been able to be redeveloped or improved. The elevated subways in Queens take up the entire width of the street, they block out all light, and are extremely noisy.
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Monorails, on the other hand are extremely silent and do not block much light or lines of sight.

Here's a good example of an urban area in Seattle with a high real estate value that is actually helped by being close to an elevated form of transportation because the monorail is quiet and does not considerably block light or lines of sight while still providing express mass transportation
Seattle-Monorail.jpg



Disney-Contemporary-Resort-Monorail.jpg
The monorail at Disney is so quiet, that this monorail travels through this hotel so silently, the rooms above it are able to be rented out for thousands of dollars each per night. Now that's transportation technology! It's actually a simple idea that makes the monorails so quiet, the trains run on large rubber tires and the beam way is solid concrete, and the motors are electric. A subway in contrast, or the JFK Air Train runs on metal wheels on metal tracks, which results in a huge amplified audible difference.

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Monorails block the least amount of light or sightlines out of any elevated transportation system, which allows the surrounding area to be beautifully landscaped
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dodgr98

Active Member
In the Parks
No
I mentioned this to a member of the Disney engineering staff (Sanitation Dept.) who said that this project is real and is happening sooner rather than later. They're even going to link the two EPCOT resorts by monorail! I. Can't. Wait.
 
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Vinny

Member
Original Poster
The most important parts of this huge project are the attractions and exhibits featured at Epcot New York and the forward moving, societal progressive ideas they communicate. As stated earlier, many attractions focusing on modern and futuristic healthcare will be key to the success of this theme park.

A great attraction that will help visitors appreciate the power and significance of modern and future body scanning technologies, like a Positron Emission Tomography (PET) or MRI Magnetic Resonance Imaging scan, will feature a free fall drop ride inside of a recreated modern healthcare facility to simulate the power of such an awesome technology.
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I like using the design of this building as the example of what the recreated medical center could look like because it resembles a DNA double helix and looks very modern and futuristic. This attraction could include a trip to the top of a 200 to 300 foot or higher recreated healthcare facility where passengers are brought to the top of the tower in a ride vehicle and given a revolving 360 degree panorama view of the surrounding urban area while the attraction narrative gives an informational presentation on the creation, history, and update on how advanced medical body scanning technology is and what we hope to achieve in the future. The attraction will then feature a drop ride free fall sequence to simulate the power of a medical imaging scan of the entire ride cabin.

The recreated medical facility tower can be built around the ride system and feature all sorts of multi media and special effects to add to the attraction.

Or, another possibility of using a somewhat less daring ride technology that may appeal to a much larger audience would be using a roller coaster to tour the attraction and present the attraction's show and information on the ascent to the top of the building and then simulate a medical scan on the fast travel down the descent route. The route can follow inside the helix down to beneath the building, make a large turn around and climb back up the building inside of the helix on the other side of the recreated medical center; and then continue on its journey with other drops, curving turns, and other maneuvers engineered to the proper level of thrill, so as to appeal to the largest audience. Special effects, themeing, and multi media would be utilized to deliver the ultimate experience. Here's a Space Mountain vehicle. I think a 200 to 300 foot tall Space Mountain type roller coaster journey would be accommodating to the demand of the largest audience. It even matches the picture of the example of what the recreated medical center should look like.
space-mountain-gallery05.jpg

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I love the way this building looks! Totally a DNA double helix, the perfect look for a pretend medical center at a theme park! And a great place to put an appropriately priced restaurant on top of!
 
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Dead2009

Horror Movie Guru
I think some people have forgotten why Disney World was plopped down in Orlando area in the first place.
1) land was very cheap, pretty much a swamp so no one was trying to do anything with it except maybe hunt gators.
2) weather was pretty much good year round, which is kind of nice if you plan on being open year round.
3) state regulations were loose.
4) labor was cheap.

Now of those 4 mentioned things how many would apply to any place in New York City area? None. The land wouldn't be cheap, the weather blows chunks in the winter, the state regulations are insane, labor is very expensive with unionization rampant especially in construction.... No way in the world anyone in their right mind would want to build a large theme park like EPCOT in that area... to just break even you would probably have to charge people $500/day maybe more and only really be open maybe 8 months out of the year.

Dont think the OP cares about logic, he just wants something huge built in the middle of New York City. I for one cant wait to ride a Splash Mountain clone in the middle of February.
 

Vinny

Member
Original Poster
The significance of New York and EPCOT:
1) New York is the greatest city in the world and has over 60 million tourists visit every year
2) New York is the largest city in the USA
3) Walt Disney created the EPCOT concept to fix cities of whats wrong with them, and to make cities the engines of building of a better world.
Listen to Walt Disney himself in this great film he made to promote his project of EPCOT. Although, his initial project was to build an entire city. The Epcot Theme park and what will hopefully be built, Epcot New York, both embody the same principle ideas of building a place that will inspire and help create a better future for our world.
 
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Vinny

Member
Original Poster
Another great attraction to feature at EPCOT New York has an awesome idea to inspire the minds and optimism of people:
Planet Building
Imagine one day having the ability to collect material from throughout the solar system to engineer another earth in a similar orbit as our own planet

Or, Terraforming Mars by chemical and bio-engineering the critical elements needed to sustain life on Mars
Mars_terraforming.jpg

The Attraction:

Guests can board the largest roller coaster car ever created which is actually also an enclosed
theater with a screen where their journey is visualized using a state of the art cinematic experience. The story-line of the journey should center around a mission mining trip to the asteroid belt to hunt for large asteroids that have the right chemical make up to be used for chemically engineering the atmosphere and land of Mars for human sustainability.

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