News Epcot Forever to debut as interim show before full Reflections of Earth replacement

mnelson3

Well-Known Member
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I’m sure in 2021 we will have Magic Kingdom Forever lol
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Few things on the use of children for Epcot Forever:

First, this sums it up well:


Second, Wishes didn't use kids for its pre-show announcements:

Kids were not giving the 15 minute reminder for Wishes. You had Jiminy Cricket paired with professional, adult voice talent giving the relevant info. No one would be complaining (well, apart from @Allyp! ;)) if they had paired Figment with the guy from the RoE announcements, or even the woman from the Epcot Experience video, to give the pre-show announcements.

And third, yes, Wishes used kids to sing some of the songs, just as Epcot Forever does, and I actually don't mind that. But the kids didn't give the narration in Wishes. Jiminy Cricket was the host and who provided the narration in Wishes, and if they had used Figment in the same way for Epcot Forever (as apparently was originally planned), you'd have a lot fewer complaints about the show, not to mention it would have been a much better fit for a show that's been billed as "a love letter to Epcot."


Finally, I've been going to Disney theme parks for more than 20 years now, and for me, the announcements in the parks are as "Disney" as the characters and movies. Some of these are outright iconic at this point, like Haunted Mansion's ghost host, Big Thunder Mountain's "Howdy pardners!", or even Jack Wagner's "Please stand clear of the doors" on the monorail. They're one of the little details that make the Disney parks better than your local amusement park, precisely because Disney announcements are usually such a great thematic fit with their corresponding show or attraction.

But the pre-show kids and narration in Epcot Forever just don't work. They don't work in the context of World Showcase (arguably the most "adult" area of the WDW parks) and they don't work in the context of Epcot history (kids have never given the announcements or narration in previous Epcot nighttime shows). Even setting those things aside, they aren't the best fit for Epcot Forever. Figment would work so much better - in terms of theme, relevance, synergy, and nostalgia. There's no reason to use kids and every reason to use Figment, yet they didn't.

This has nothing to do with childhood insecurities or Freudian psycho analysis or whatever nonsensical carp you want to throw out there; it's about poor creative choices that contribute to an overall lackluster show.
Say what you will about Wishes. But I really miss hearing Jiminy Cricket's voice throughout the Magic Kingdom at night (especially when Spectromagic used to start before Wishes). While I enjoy Happily Ever After, I still miss Jiminy's narration. Jiminy Cricket captured the relaxing, and laidback mood for the park at night and actually felt like a true host for the park at night.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Hot take, better technical firework show then Illuminations, loved the kites, but lacking the emotional heft of ROE, I think it will grow on me and I’m going to continue devoting 2 of my standard 6 nights on trips to EPCOT
 

WDW Monorail

Well-Known Member
It’s a very njcely put together and well thought out fireworks show with some basic cue sequences and some more intricate ones as well. I never really cared for many of the older Epcot attraction songs but they turned out nicely I guess. I much prefer the last 5 minutes or so including Golden Dream, Celebrate the Future and of course A Whole New World. That is one of my favorite Disney songs so I loved hearing it during the show and am glad it served as the finale song. Very well arranged instrumental. While the fireworks shells design during that segment is nice, it’s mostly just volleys of 2 or 4 shells at a time. I do really like the purple mines used in the earlier part of that segment. The use of the seawall comets on sequential cues is fantastic and a great build up to the finale.

Edit: Also, this show offers the best implementation of the lasers at Epcot by far.
 
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RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Remember, this was never meant to create emotion. It is a pure entertaining fireworks show.

The emotions come with the next one.
Seems like I'm disagreeing with you a lot lately.

Disney stated that this was a love letter to Epcot. In the same way they play up movie based IP because of our existing emotional attachment to the stories and characters, that was absolutely the intent here. Play up existing attachments to Epcot attractions from the past and present. You know full well that good execution will be able to create that emotion even if the familiarity with the source material isn't there.

Saying that a Disney fireworks show wasn't meant to create an emotion is silly.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
Seems like I'm disagreeing with you a lot lately.

Disney stated that this was a love letter to Epcot. In the same way they play up movie based IP because of our existing emotional attachment to the stories and characters, that was absolutely the intent here. Play up existing attachments to Epcot attractions from the past and present. You know full well that good execution will be able to create that emotion even if the familiarity with the source material isn't there.

Saying that a Disney fireworks show wasn't meant to create an emotion is silly.
Believe the the PR all you want (which was trying to deflect the mountain of criticism they knew was coming). Harmonious is the wannabe RoE equivalent.

If everyone agreed forums would be boring.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
It’s a very njcely put together and well thought out fireworks show with some basic cue sequences and some more intricate ones as well. I never really cared for many of the older Epcot attraction songs but they turned out nicely I guess. I much prefer the last 5 minutes or so including Golden Dream, Celebrate the Future and of course A Whole New World. That is one of my favorite Disney songs so I loved hearing it during the show and am glad it served as the finale song. Very well arranged instrumental. While the fireworks shells design during that segment is nice, it’s mostly just volleys of 2 or 4 shells at a time. I do really like the purple mines used in the earlier part of that segment. The use of the seawall comets on sequential cues is fantastic and a great build up to the finale.

Edit: Also, this show offers the best implementation of the lasers at Epcot by far.
I don't accept this.

You can argue that it was a difficult task to put together 37 years of a park into an 11 minute show, but having an orchestra at your disposal combined with a library of audio and you or I could have done a better job. That shouldn't be the case. Imagineers, Featured Entertainment and Disney are supposed to be the best at what they do and this show missed the mark tremendously.

For the first few minutes, the mixture of children and Walt was jarring, and the snippets of songs were too short. As it transitioned into Tapestry/Golden Dreams/Celebrate the Future I thought they were on the right track and then it took an immediate wrong turn into A Whole New World. Had they continued the vibe of that middle section and finished with an Epcot appropriate song the show could have been saved. It wouldn't have been an A+ show, but a better finale could have put this in the B/B- range, right now I've got it as an F.

I didn't have any objections to the visuals. I thought the kites were a cool idea using reduced infrastructure (which we knew going in). I appreciated the lasers as well.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Believe the the PR all you want (which was trying to deflect the mountain of criticism they knew was coming). Harmonious is the wannabe RoE equivalent.

If everyone agreed forums would be boring.
One thing Disney has done very poorly in recent years is managing expectations. Why put out a show if they knew criticism was coming? Any teasers they've shown played up the classic Epcot vibe of the show and deliberately avoided the Whole New World section. It's as if the people that assembled the show never went to Epcot prior to 1998 and those that assembled the preview clips of the show were going since 1982.

Recognizing that I couldn't change the composition of the fireworks themselves, I made a few minor changes to the first 9 minutes of the show and simply swapped out the final two minutes with a segment of Illuminations.

 
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marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
One thing Disney has done very poorly in recent years is managing expectations. Why put out a show if the knew criticism was coming? Any teasers they've shown played up the classic Epcot vibe of the show and deliberately avoided the Whole New World section. It's as if the people that assembled the show never went to Epcot prior to 1998 and those that assembled the preview clips of the show were going since 1982.

Recognizing that I couldn't change the composition of the fireworks themselves, I made a few minor changes to the first 9 minutes of the show and simply swapped out the final two minutes with a segment of Illuminations.

Personally I thought the ending should have gone back to We’ve Just Begun to Dream (use the second verse if need be to begin with). It would have added only another 30 seconds unless they re recorded it quicker.

but that’s just me
 
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