News Epcot Forever to debut as interim show before full Reflections of Earth replacement

[Disney Analyst]

I’m somewhat creeped out that so many people who ❤ Disney and ya know, are around kids all the time (in the parks) and likely obtained their of Disney from when they were a kid, are so freaked out/disgusted/have disdain for the kids singing in EF (or other shows).

I just judge each attraction/thing on its own merits. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. But the blanket statements perplex me

I agree, the disdain towards children narrators/singers took me by surprise. I chalk it up to insecurities deeply held by several Disney fans, likely as a result of constantly defending the thing they love as not being for kids only.

Just my hot take. I've never minded it, whether in Wishes, Believe... or now.

 

[KevinPage]

I agree, the disdain towards children narrators/singers took me by surprise. I chalk it up to insecurities deeply held by several Disney fans, likely as a result of constantly defending the thing they love as not being for kids only.

Just my hot take. I've never minded it, whether in Wishes, Believe... or now.

Well I myself am not going to psycho analyze anyone on a message board, especially when by its very nature is prone to hyperbole. But I understand your sentiment

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I agree, the disdain towards children narrators/singers took me by surprise. I chalk it up to insecurities deeply held by several Disney fans, likely as a result of constantly defending the thing they love as not being for kids only.

Just my hot take. I've never minded it, whether in Wishes, Believe... or now.

I can completely understand why you'd see it that way and there could be some truth in it. I do think, though, that within the Disney theme park fan world there are people who like the parks for different reasons.

It seems similar to me to the debates about the reliance on IP in the parks. For many guests, Disney equals Disney IPs and they don't understand why people get so upset about their inclusion in the parks, in part because they've always been there anyway. Many others look at the same phenomenon and see an over-reliance on IPs that is slowly replacing what they liked about the parks in the first place. Speaking for myself, the stuff clearly pitched at little kids doesn't really interest me and if the parks were just that I wouldn't go. Honestly, I feel that most of the live shows with the rubber heads fit into that category and I don't bother watching them. So, for me, when the main nighttime spectaculars start to center kids I do begin to wonder whether the parks are really still for me. It's possibly even more jarring at Epcot which was always a little more 'adult' than MK.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I can completely understand why you'd see it that way and there could be some truth in it. I do think, though, that within the Disney theme park fan world there are people who like the parks for different reasons.

It seems similar to me to the debates about the reliance on IP in the parks. For many guests, Disney equals Disney IPs and they don't understand why people get so upset about their inclusion in the parks, in part because they've always been there anyway. Many others look at the same phenomenon and see an over-reliance on IPs that is slowly replacing what they liked about the parks in the first place. Speaking for myself, the stuff clearly pitched at little kids doesn't really interest me and if the parks were just that I wouldn't go. Honestly, I feel that most of the live shows with the rubber heads fit into that category and I don't bother watching them. So, for me, when the main nighttime spectaculars start to center kids I do begin to wonder whether the parks are really still for me. It's possibly even more jarring at Epcot which was always a little more 'adult' than MK.

Thanks for the reply! I certainly can understand everything you're saying, and I can totally see that side of it.

It was just interesting from the first moment there was an announcement with a kids voice, before the show, the audience reaction and twitter was... not so great. Almost as if everyone was disgusted by the notion.

But I mean, if we look at what they are saying about the transformation of Epcot, we should already know their goal is to make it less of an adult park.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Thanks for the reply! I certainly can understand everything you're saying, and I can totally see that side of it.

It was just interesting from the first moment there was an announcement with a kids voice, before the show, the audience reaction and twitter was... not so great. Almost as if everyone was disgusted by the notion.

But I mean, if we look at what they are saying about the transformation of Epcot, we should already know their goal is to make it less of an adult park.

To be honest, I did also find the reaction to the announcement in the child's voice more than a little over the top. Even though I would prefer something approximating the Dreamfinder singing One Little Spark, it doesn't make my ears bleed hearing the kids sing it in quite the way the announcement seemed to judging by the video that was uploaded on this thread of the crowds by WS lagoon.

My initial post on the topic of the kids singing is one of genuine curiosity, though, as I very much realise I am not the target demographic for WDW and I am interested to know if the people who are react in exactly the way Disney wants.

 

[Communicora]

I agree, the disdain towards children narrators/singers took me by surprise. I chalk it up to insecurities deeply held by several Disney fans, likely as a result of constantly defending the thing they love as not being for kids only.

Just my hot take. I've never minded it, whether in Wishes, Believe... or now.

I think the reaction was because we went from that grand, but warm introduction for Illuminations, to children in Epcot Forever. The contrast was extreme and the new narration just didn't feel like Epcot.

As for Wishes, I loved that show. The children were a perfect fit.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I've ruminated on the show for a week and frankly? It's fine. It's not great, it's not terrible, it's fine. It needs to be maybe 2 minutes longer and should have had Figment hosting. I actually don't mind A Whole New World in the context of the show considering the point of that number and that there's a bit of We Go On in the Whole New World arrangement.

The real slap in the face would be if the show ended with Let it Go instead of an attempt of giving the old school fans a hand and saying "Hey, we know you don't like this but at least give us a chance" Consider the lead-in is a new verse of One Little Spark and the final line in the show is one of the Voices of Liberty singing "Let me share this whole new world with you."

There are worse sins the show makes than an attempt at bridging the gap between the old and new Epcot. The medleys all need to be about 30 seconds longer than they are because none of the music gets enough time to be showcased and the lack of Figment is glaring. There's no emotional journey. The kids were not a great choice. But all the criticism of A Whole New World is centered on IP bad when there is a point and idea behind it.

Also:

Just remember, you could have been punched in the nuts and pointed and laughed at with Let it Go instead of given a reference to the origin of the park and an offer to give the new direction a chance.

Overall: the show is okay. It's a hold-over while the real replacement is being produced. Criticism is valid but A Whole New World isn't the end of the world like everyone on here is saying.

EF is kinda a nutshot at a park that only had one ball to begin with. Poor Epcot is in the fetal position behind construction walls.

 

[Allyp]

So, I saw the show on Sunday and been rewatching it on youtube today. First off, I wasn't really around to experience most of the Epcot songs in this video first hand as a kid. However, I am a huge audiophile of Disney theme park music and listen to it all the time, so I knew what each song was. I'm the minority millennial here. Loved hearing the Epcot fanfare and to be honest, I didn't mind the kid talking in the show. If it would have been narrated by Figment, it would be way too jarring cause personally (send the hate mail now), his voice is way too shrill and annoying.

I loved the show up until the Aladdin segment, however I think that is for the majority of Disney Millennials, the millennium celebration is probably when most of us have specific memories of Epcot. Nothing really before that. So by having even Tapestry of Nations, a song that has essentially been on repeat since 1999, is hugely nostalgic for my generation. If anything, they should have ended the show with ANYTHING from the millennium celebration since that is what is strongest in this moment of Epcot music. Had they kept the Aladdin segment down to around 30 seconds at the end, it would have been fine but I think the problem is it went too long. They should have added ROE since it is such a big piece now of Epcot history and that to me seems like the greatest disappointment.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

Few things on the use of children for Epcot Forever:

First, this sums it up well:

I think the reaction was because we went from that grand, but warm introduction for Illuminations, to children in Epcot Forever. The contrast was extreme and the new narration just didn't feel like Epcot.

Second, Wishes didn't use kids for its pre-show announcements:


Kids were not giving the 15 minute reminder for Wishes. You had Jiminy Cricket paired with professional, adult voice talent giving the relevant info. No one would be complaining (well, apart from @Allyp! ) if they had paired Figment with the guy from the RoE announcements, or even the woman from the Epcot Experience video, to give the pre-show announcements.

And third, yes, Wishes used kids to sing some of the songs, just as Epcot Forever does, and I actually don't mind that. But the kids didn't give the narration in Wishes. Jiminy Cricket was the host and who provided the narration in Wishes, and if they had used Figment in the same way for Epcot Forever (as apparently was originally planned), you'd have a lot fewer complaints about the show, not to mention it would have been a much better fit for a show that's been billed as "a love letter to Epcot."


Finally, I've been going to Disney theme parks for more than 20 years now, and for me, the announcements in the parks are as "Disney" as the characters and movies. Some of these are outright iconic at this point, like Haunted Mansion's ghost host, Big Thunder Mountain's "Howdy pardners!", or even Jack Wagner's "Please stand clear of the doors" on the monorail. They're one of the little details that make the Disney parks better than your local amusement park, precisely because Disney announcements are usually such a great thematic fit with their corresponding show or attraction.

But the pre-show kids and narration in Epcot Forever just don't work. They don't work in the context of World Showcase (arguably the most "adult" area of the WDW parks) and they don't work in the context of Epcot history (kids have never given the announcements or narration in previous Epcot nighttime shows). Even setting those things aside, they aren't the best fit for Epcot Forever. Figment would work so much better - in terms of theme, relevance, synergy, and nostalgia. There's no reason to use kids and every reason to use Figment, yet they didn't.

This has nothing to do with childhood insecurities or Freudian psycho analysis or whatever nonsensical carp you want to throw out there; it's about poor creative choices that contribute to an overall lackluster show.

 

[MisterPenguin]

And third, yes, Wishes used kids to sing some of the songs, just as Epcot Forever does, and I actually don't mind that.

Remember, "...more family friendly...".

And putting kids into the show will help children enjoy this show dedicated to songs and attractions that closed decades before they were born.


Oh well, it can always be: "...more timeless, more relevant."

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And putting kids into the show will help children enjoy this show dedicated to songs and attractions that closed decades before they were born.

"Remember...Dreams Come True" used audio from several closed attractions, but nobody complained about that.

Why can't a show about Epcot use music from its own history?

 

[TTA94]

I’m sure in 2021 we will have Magic Kingdom Forever lol

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I’m sure in 2021 we will have Magic Kingdom Forever lol

Minnie Mouse Presents Disney's Disneyland Forever: A Magical Kingdom of Disney Dreams at Disney Parks Florida

 

[brb1006]

Few things on the use of children for Epcot Forever:

First, this sums it up well:


Second, Wishes didn't use kids for its pre-show announcements:


Kids were not giving the 15 minute reminder for Wishes. You had Jiminy Cricket paired with professional, adult voice talent giving the relevant info. No one would be complaining (well, apart from @Allyp! ) if they had paired Figment with the guy from the RoE announcements, or even the woman from the Epcot Experience video, to give the pre-show announcements.

And third, yes, Wishes used kids to sing some of the songs, just as Epcot Forever does, and I actually don't mind that. But the kids didn't give the narration in Wishes. Jiminy Cricket was the host and who provided the narration in Wishes, and if they had used Figment in the same way for Epcot Forever (as apparently was originally planned), you'd have a lot fewer complaints about the show, not to mention it would have been a much better fit for a show that's been billed as "a love letter to Epcot."


Finally, I've been going to Disney theme parks for more than 20 years now, and for me, the announcements in the parks are as "Disney" as the characters and movies. Some of these are outright iconic at this point, like Haunted Mansion's ghost host, Big Thunder Mountain's "Howdy pardners!", or even Jack Wagner's "Please stand clear of the doors" on the monorail. They're one of the little details that make the Disney parks better than your local amusement park, precisely because Disney announcements are usually such a great thematic fit with their corresponding show or attraction.

But the pre-show kids and narration in Epcot Forever just don't work. They don't work in the context of World Showcase (arguably the most "adult" area of the WDW parks) and they don't work in the context of Epcot history (kids have never given the announcements or narration in previous Epcot nighttime shows). Even setting those things aside, they aren't the best fit for Epcot Forever. Figment would work so much better - in terms of theme, relevance, synergy, and nostalgia. There's no reason to use kids and every reason to use Figment, yet they didn't.

This has nothing to do with childhood insecurities or Freudian psycho analysis or whatever nonsensical carp you want to throw out there; it's about poor creative choices that contribute to an overall lackluster show.

Say what you will about Wishes. But I really miss hearing Jiminy Cricket's voice throughout the Magic Kingdom at night (especially when Spectromagic used to start before Wishes). While I enjoy Happily Ever After, I still miss Jiminy's narration. Jiminy Cricket captured the relaxing, and laidback mood for the park at night and actually felt like a true host for the park at night.

 

[KevinPage]

The point of re-recording the original music was that it sounded VERY DATED.

So by having new versions, you freshen it up for a newer audience but still appease fans that know those songs. I myself have no problems with the updated versions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I can't find evidence that Rick Astley ever performed at any Epcot concert series, but had he, I would have appreciated that over A Whole New World, at least they would have owned the Rick Rolling.

 

[Touchdown]

Hot take, better technical firework show then Illuminations, loved the kites, but lacking the emotional heft of ROE, I think it will grow on me and I’m going to continue devoting 2 of my standard 6 nights on trips to EPCOT

 

[marni1971]

Remember, this was never meant to create emotion. It is a pure entertaining fireworks show.

The emotions come with the next one.

 

[Mainahman]

Remember, this was never meant to create emotion. It is a pure entertaining fireworks show.

The emotions come with the next one.

Mostly anger right?

 

[marni1971]

Mostly anger right?

No comment. Eye of the beholder and all that.