News 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[Marc Davis Fan]

Which insiders said it was scaled down?

@celluloid unless I misunderstood and they just meant the facade, see several posts from them about it starting here: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...iences-at-animal-kingdom.981958/post-11062289

I’m too lazy to look but was the $17B said to be specifically for WDW or was it “in Florida”? I ask because the latter could conceivably include investments related to the cruise line (especially things at the port).

Per Iger, Disney plans “to invest over $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years.”

 

[peter11435]

I’m too lazy to look but was the $17B said to be specifically for WDW or was it “in Florida”? I ask because the latter could conceivably include investments related to the cruise line (especially things at the port).

WDW. There is a separate pot of money earmarked for DCL.

 

[celluloid]

The thing is, when you have over 22 square miles of property that features 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, large recreation venues and over 20 hotels with roads and transportation methods connecting them all. 17 billion in 10 to 20 years is something thst should just be done at a general rate of progress.

 

[celluloid]

Which insiders said it was scaled down?

I don't consider myself an insider. But I was one who have seen the plans differ enough from DL's design features and what has made it appreciated. That was discussed awhile back and it is not to say that differences won't automatically make it less, but I have little faith in modern leadership that will make it so.

 

[Disnutz311]

I've been thinking about the following, and

I've been thinking about the following, and decided this is the best thread for it (since Tropical Americas is the soonest-to-open of the truly major upcoming projects).

The likely budgets of all the announced projects combined would be only a small fraction of the supposed $17 billion in capital expenditures for a 10-year period.

If erring towards the high end, I might imagine something like:

• Tropical Americas: $600 million
• Monstropolis: $500 million
• Muppets RnRC: $100 million
• Cars: $500 million
• Villains: $1.5 billion

That totals just over $3 billion. Maybe I'm still underestimating - maybe the Villains land is an unprecedented $2 billion (is that possible?), maybe Cars is a whopping $1 billion due to infrastructure complexities, maybe Tropical Americas and Monstropolis are several hundred million dollars more, plus we should count hotel expansions, etc. - so let's round it up and say $5 billion.

If they're really budgeting $17 billion for the 10-year period with the supposed aim of leapfrogging over the competition via extraordinary scale/ambition, why do they appear so budget-constrained right now... especially considering what we know about these additions: the Encanto attraction only being a D-ticket (if still true?), the Indiana Jones Adventure plans being downsized so it's no longer anticipated to be the superior version (if still true?), and not even to be going all-out with the door coaster (according to insiders in that thread)? Is this only because the anticipated cash won't be available until the second half of the decade? (I know they said the capex would be rear-loaded, but this seems really rear-loaded... like, $10-15 billion in capex over the remaining five years is nearly inconceivable to me...)

This is Disney we are talking about so there will be massive cost overruns...

Tropical Americas - 750m (Encanto will be 300m easy)
Monstropolis - 650m (Coaster will be 400m)
Muppets - 75m (Hoping they spend this much)
Cars - 1b (So much earth to move and then build a stupid ride nobody wants)
Villans 2b (If done right and there better be a Haunted Mansion themed bar before you get to the land)

Keep in mind CAPEX is also maintainance and general repairs. So when Disney says CAPEX a big chunk will go into fixing things (BTRM track, Sewage issue in Frontierland, New food kiosks, villains show at Studios, paint the castle another stupid color, etc) and their standard maintenance and upgrade yearly budget. Phase two will be luck to have 4b left and that better go to EPCOT 50th and at least a new figment ride.

I think we all love big new shiny stuff, but there is some low lying fruit that I wish they would do alongside these big lands. A replacement for Stitch could happen by 2027, Electric Autopia vehicles 2025, New Galaxy Edge characters and show 2025, Inside and Out in Magic Eye 2026, New Morocco restaurant 2025, Fix the Yeti 2026, etc. But they have to want this.

Everyone in Imagineering is contract base (Except for a small core few) so that is why it takes so long and costs so much. They have to hire new people, teach the interns they hire to be Imagineers, get Gensler and other companies to do some work, and have executives make the wrong decisions and then start over.

 

[JackCH]

This I can speak for specifically. That is not true at all and never was. It is absolutely designed and planned to be the superior version. At least on paper it is and everyone involved I’ve spoken to believes it will be but as we know until it opens we will see if the public perception feels the same way.

As far as budgets in general Disney has always stated that the second half of the 10 year plan will see the bulk of the money. So if true there is a lot more coming.

I personally hope this cycle was viewed as "prioritize MK" and the next one is either AK or DHS.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I personally hope this cycle was viewed as "prioritize MK" and the next one is either AK or DHS.

“Prioritize MK” without focusing on Tomorrowland?

 

[JackCH]

“Prioritize MK” without focusing on Tomorrowland?

They did just add Tron but I get what you mean both with theming and the empty spaces.

My point is just I think AK and DHS need a heavy investment cycle like MK is clearly getting this cycle, even though I know you and others disagree with how that investment is being used.

 

[Timothy_Q]

Based on their rotation of park investments, I'd guess the first big project after Villains would be something for Epcot, followed by DAK and DHS

MK (New Fantasyland)
↓
DAK (Pandora, Harambe expansion, RoL, park enhancements)
↓
DHS (TSL, SWGE, MMRR)
↓
Epcot (GotG, Rat, Moana, TT, Spine, Luminous, new films)
↓
DAK (Tropical Americas, Zoo)
↓
DHS (Monstropolis, Muppets, Villains show, Mermaid)
↓
MK (Cars, Villains)
↓
Epcot? (Figment, WoL, new ride for WS?)
↓
DAK? (Lion King, Pandora expansion?)
↓
DHS? (New land behind Animation Courtyard?)
↓
MK? (Tomorrowland redo?)

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Based on their rotation of park investments, I'd guess the first big project after Villains would be something for Epcot, followed by DAK and DHS

MK (New Fantasyland)
↓
DAK (Pandora, Harambe expansion, RoL, park enhancements)
↓
DHS (TSL, SWGE, MMRR)
↓
Epcot (GotG, Rat, Moana, TT, Spine, Luminous, new films)
↓
DAK (Tropical Americas, Zoo)
↓
DHS (Monstropolis, Muppets, Villains show, Mermaid)
↓
MK (Cars, Villains)
↓
Epcot? (Figment, WoL, new ride for WS?)
↓
DAK? (Lion King, Pandora expansion?)
↓
DHS? (New land behind Animation Courtyard?)
↓
MK? (Tomorrowland redo?)

For MK, it’s possible the Adventureland expansion (Moana?) plans are still on the table, too. My fingers are crossed for that, in large part because of the addition-by-subtraction that would be the removal of a carnival spinner from an otherwise-transportive and beautifully-detailed environment.

 

[peter11435]

For MK, it’s possible the Adventureland expansion (Moana?) plans are still on the table, too. My fingers are crossed for that, in large part because of the addition-by-subtraction that would be the removal of a carnival spinner from an otherwise-transportive and beautifully-detailed environment.

I would not expect Aladdin to be removed as part of any Adventureland expansion.

 

[JackCH]

I would not expect Aladdin to be removed as part of any Adventureland expansion.

I am once again asking for a Cave of Wonders ride in Adventureland!!

 

[flyerjab]

Based on their rotation of park investments, I'd guess the first big project after Villains would be something for Epcot, followed by DAK and DHS

MK (New Fantasyland)
↓
DAK (Pandora, Harambe expansion, RoL, park enhancements)
↓
DHS (TSL, SWGE, MMRR)
↓
Epcot (GotG, Rat, Moana, TT, Spine, Luminous, new films)
↓
DAK (Tropical Americas, Zoo)
↓
DHS (Monstropolis, Muppets, Villains show, Mermaid)
↓
MK (Cars, Villains)
↓
Epcot? (Figment, WoL, new ride for WS?)
↓
DAK? (Lion King, Pandora expansion?)
↓
DHS? (New land behind Animation Courtyard?)
↓
MK? (Tomorrowland redo?)

My thinking lines up with your timeline. Epcot’s 50th is coming up. If ever there was a time to redo Imagination and SSE, what a great scenario for that to happen. Figment could even be the mascot for the 50th.

 

[Brer Panther]

If they're really budgeting $17 billion for the 10-year period with the supposed aim of leapfrogging over the competition via extraordinary scale/ambition, why do they appear so budget-constrained right now... especially considering what we know about these additions: the Encanto attraction only being a D-ticket (if still true?), the Indiana Jones Adventure plans being downsized so it's no longer anticipated to be the superior version (if still true?), and not even to be going all-out with the door coaster (according to insiders in that thread)?

It's honestly hard to be excited about even the stuff that sounds like it'll be good because of both the rumored downsizing and budget cuts and Iger's Disney repeatedly demonstrating their ability to screw up great ideas for attractions.

The long-awaited Little Mermaid dark ride? Turned out lousy. A Ratatouille ride? Turned out lousy. A Princess and the Frog ride? Turned out lousy. Even the very first dark ride starring Mickey Mouse wound up being the mediocre Crack Addict Goofy's Slow-Moving Train Ride.

Now instead of looking forward to stuff like the Door Coaster, I'm just thinking "Please be good. Please be good. Please be good..."

 

[JackCH]

It's honestly hard to be excited about even the stuff that sounds like it'll be good because of both the rumored downsizing and budget cuts and Iger's Disney repeatedly demonstrating their ability to screw up great ideas for attractions.

The long-awaited Little Mermaid dark ride? Turned out lousy. A Ratatouille ride? Turned out lousy. A Princess and the Frog ride? Turned out lousy. Even the very first dark ride starring Mickey Mouse wound up being the mediocre Crack Addict Goofy's Slow-Moving Train Ride.

Now instead of looking forward to stuff like the Door Coaster, I'm just thinking "Please be good. Please be good. Please be good..."

I'm trying to think what "era" of Disney had all these show-stopping attractions in consecutive order that you all seem to remember so fondly. Those attractions you listed are all good attractions to me except for TBA. And that's not even mentioning other attractions made in that time that I think are awesome.

And I get everything is subjective and so it's fine we disagree. But what era at WDW do you think was better? And what attractions were there?

 

[peter11435]

I'm trying to think what "era" of Disney had all these show-stopping attractions in consecutive order that you all seem to remember so fondly. Those attractions you listed are all good attractions to me except for TBA. And that's not even mentioning other attractions made in that time that I think are awesome.

And I get everything is subjective and so it's fine we disagree. But what era at WDW do you think was better? And what attractions were there?

People tend to forget all the mediocre attractions that were added in the 50’s-90’s because they aren’t here any more. Our view of the quality of attractions from the past is based largely on only those that withstood the test of the time.

 

[gerarar]

 

[UNCgolf]

I'm trying to think what "era" of Disney had all these show-stopping attractions in consecutive order that you all seem to remember so fondly. Those attractions you listed are all good attractions to me except for TBA. And that's not even mentioning other attractions made in that time that I think are awesome.

And I get everything is subjective and so it's fine we disagree. But what era at WDW do you think was better? And what attractions were there?

For me it's definitely the early-mid 90s, when 20K, Great Movie Ride, and the original EPCOT attraction lineup were all still there. Every single ride at EPCOT now is worse than what existed originally (except maybe Soarin', although it replaced a show, not a ride).

That's not to say all of those EPCOT attractions could have continued on to the present day without updates/changes (Universe of Energy and Horizons especially), but they were better at the time than the current attractions are at this time.

Animal Kingdom was missing entirely, and that's a fantastic park, but Magic Kingdom/EPCOT/DHS were all better parks then than they are now to me (although that's not solely about attraction lineups, especially re: DHS -- DHS has a stronger attraction lineup now even with the loss of Great Movie Ride).

 

[celluloid]

From 1986 to 1998, just over ten years you had..
The Living Seas
Captain Eo
Maelstrom,
Wonders of Live Pavilion with Body Wars and Cranium Command
Disney-MGM Studios
Splash Mountain
Muppet Vision 3D
Tower of Terror
Honey I Shrunk The Kids
Alien Encounter
1994 Tomorrowlnland refurbs, Carousel of Progress retheme, Buzz and lande enhancements
Test Track
RocknRoller Coaster.
Animal Kingdom

This is is not including the many great had their time and smaller attractions like Goofy's Barnatormer, Timekeeper, innovations etc



One will notice most of these treats are still around, still well known, feature the bones that their replacements use or as seen as superior to their predecessors, including some empty voids.

 

[JackCH]

For me it's definitely the early-mid 90s, when 20K, Great Movie Ride, and the original EPCOT attraction lineup were all still there. Every single ride at EPCOT now is worse than what existed originally (except maybe Soarin', although it replaced a show, not a ride).

That's not to say all of those EPCOT attractions could have continued on to the present day without updates/changes (Universe of Energy and Horizons especially), but they were better at the time.

Animal Kingdom was missing, and that's a fantastic park, but Magic Kingdom/EPCOT/DHS were all better parks then than they are now to me (although that's not solely about attraction lineups, especially re: DHS).

Yeah... I'd take DHS with Star Wars over what the park was for most of its existence, which to me always felt empty and lacking. Epcot I can understand, though my only memories of Epcot are from the early 2000's, and I would definitely take today's Epcot over that one. Cosmic Rewind, even though its in the wrong place, is a must-do for me. While Ellen's Energy was a must-skip lol.

But I understand people preferring "old WDW" to today, there was more charm and consistency in theming, each park was more distinctive, and the economics of LL and merchandise have definitely brought negative side-effects. What I don't agree with is that what WDI has produced in the last decade has been "worse quality." There have been some world-class attractions that I feel like get nit-picked to death, while "classic" attractions get a lot of excuses made for them (I believe because of nostalgia more than reality).