News 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[lazyboy97o]

And the new Encanto ride replacing a spot that currently has a few picnic tables, you keep ignoring that one

No I’m not. I have repeatedly referenced one new attraction. That’s the one new attraction.

 

[lazyboy97o]

right - but like I said a bunch of posts ago if they literally just replace capacity that really won't do much

They need to increase demand/draw to the park (and away from other parks) and to parts of the park beyond Pandora and the Safari, AND they need more ride capacity to handle the increased demand

Some of that can come from just keeping the park open later, so more hours of throughput on existing rides, but also need more rides/more hourly capacity

I am working with the assumption that will be part of it with the overall plan for redoing all of Dinoland ... if not, then it is not money well spent

Where is this additional capacity that you assume is coming?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Where is this additional capacity that you assume is coming?

From the addition new attraction (at least one) that is part of the overall plan for all of Dinoland that you indicated you admitted was part of the plan one post up

Unless you think the current picnic tables provide same capacity as a new attraction tion taking their spot?


Currently there is Dinosaur and TriceratopSpin

The new plan has at least Indy, spinner, and additional Encanto ride, so the additional Encanto ride would be additional capacity than the park currently has

 

[J4546]

Yeah but they also used to have a Dino coaster until last year.

 

[JD80]

Yeah but they also used to have a Dino coaster until last year.

It's been closed for almost 3.5 years.

 

[peter11435]

But there is also the spinner and the new Encanto ride as part of it along with redoing Dinosaur

There is already a spinner

 

[cjkeating]

It's been closed for almost 3.5 years.

If you had a million dollars and you throw it in the trash and five years later you are given a million dollars... you have the same amount of money as you did before (ignoring inflation).

So if the park had 1200 pph capacity and five years later replaces the 1200 pph capacity they are just back where they started. They haven't gained.

 

[No Name]

From the addition new attraction (at least one) that is part of the overall plan for all of Dinoland that you indicated you admitted was part of the plan one post up

Unless you think the current picnic tables provide same capacity as a new attraction tion taking their spot?


Currently there is Dinosaur and TriceratopSpin

The new plan has at least Indy, spinner, and additional Encanto ride, so the additional Encanto ride would be additional capacity than the park currently has

It’s not at least one additional ride, it’s at most one. And its zero if you don’t just give them a pass for closing Primeval Whirl.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

I am a little unsure about where the disagreement is.

As far as I can tell, everyone agrees that (1) DAK needs more capacity. I think most would agree that (2) some of that capacity should be E tickets and some should be smaller scale. (3)The specific distribution is debated.

I think most would agree that (4) an Indiana Jones ride similar to the one at TDS or Disneyland will have longer waits than Dinosaur has.

(5) Although Dinosaur is not fully utilized all day long, it's ride capacity is fully utilized starting about 45 minutes after the park opens. (6) The total number of additional guests that will get to ride due to the extra demand will fill ride vehicles earlier in the morning, perhaps leading to an additional 300 total rides by the end of the day. (7) This is a small number compared to the total rides on Dinosaur in a day.

(8) It may be worth it to Disney if building the ride gives them a second opportunity to sell Lightning Lanes. (9) It may also sell more merchandise, but probably not a ton more merchandise, since Indiana Jones doesn't sell princess-levels of merchandise.

(10) Encanto may or may not be a ride. If it is a ride, (11) it would replace the lost capacity from Primeval Whirl. (12) Primeval Whirl was definitely underutilized when it was open. It rarely operated anywhere near full capacity. I feel like most times I went on it, literally half of the capacity wasn't even available, and it was still a walk on.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I am a little unsure about where the disagreement is.

As far as I can tell, everyone agrees that (1) DAK needs more capacity. I think most would agree that (2) some of that capacity should be E tickets and some should be smaller scale. (3)The specific distribution is debated.

I think most would agree that (4) an Indiana Jones ride similar to the one at TDS or Disneyland will have longer waits than Dinosaur has.

(5) Although Dinosaur is not fully utilized all day long, it's ride capacity is fully utilized starting about 45 minutes after the park opens. (6) The total number of additional guests that will get to ride due to the extra demand will fill ride vehicles earlier in the morning, perhaps leading to an additional 300 total rides by the end of the day. (7) This is a small number compared to the total rides on Dinosaur in a day.

(8) It may be worth it to Disney if building the ride gives them a second opportunity to sell Lightning Lanes. (9) It may also sell more merchandise, but probably not a ton more merchandise, since Indiana Jones doesn't sell princess-levels of merchandise.

(10) Encanto may or may not be a ride. If it is a ride, (11) it would replace the lost capacity from Primeval Whirl. (12) Primeval Whirl was definitely underutilized when it was open. It rarely operated anywhere near full capacity. I feel like most times I went on it, literally half of the capacity wasn't even available, and it was still a walk on.

The disagreement is over whether or not it is a good idea to draw more people to the park, to induce demand.

Right now, Disney’s Animal Kingdom does not have sufficient capacity. Even with Primeval Whirl it did not have sufficient theoretical capacity. The drop in visitation has lessened the impact of the ride’s removal but the park still lacks capacity. The park needs more than one ride’s worth of capacity.

Because the park needs capacity, adding one ride means that capacity will (assuming it’s not a complete dud) be utilized by the people already visiting the park. Even with it, the park will still lack capacity. But this attraction is intended to draw additional people to the park, people for whom there is not available capacity. Dinosaur and the rest of the land are also being redone to draw more people, people for whom there is no available capacity. The result is a greater capacity deficit. Yes, in one spot you’ve added capacity but your overall situation is no better. Wait times at existing attractions remain nearly the same, or worse, increase. That’s why it’s a contradiction to say that capacity should be increased and demand should be increased. Increasing demand now negates the capacity increase.

 

[Tha Realest]

But there is also the spinner and the new Encanto ride as part of it along with redoing Dinosaur

It’s unlikely either add capacity. Keep in mind, Primeval Whirl had about 1000/hour, so the park’s operating at a reduced capacity from where things were 2000-ish. It’s also unclear this will be a “ride.”

 

[Twirlnhurl]

Dinosaur and the rest of the land are also being redone to draw more people, people for whom there is no available capacity. The result is a greater capacity deficit. Yes, in one spot you’ve added capacity but your overall situation is no better.

The extent of the capacity deficit is dependant on the rate of induced demand. I don't think anyone on this board would like Disney to make this investment in DAK and call the park complete. So if Disney is going to get to a point where the parks have adequate capacity, they need to build stuff to get there.

Would they get there faster if they didn't replace anything on the way? Yes.

But we also know that Dinosaur is expensive to maintain as though it is a major E-ticket, but it is not pulling its weight. So if Disney is going to spend what it takes to keep those EMVs moving through that building, it may be worth switching the show for something more popular (depending on how expensive the conversion is, that math may never pencil out).

But I guess I am not going to hold my breath for DAK to get a DCA-style makeover to get the capacity where it needs to be.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

It’s unlikely either add capacity. Keep in mind, Primeval Whirl had about 1000/hour, so the park’s operating at a reduced capacity from where things were 2000-ish. It’s also unclear this will be a “ride.”

Dinoland is operating at a deficit from where it was in 2002. But DAK capacity peaked after Pandora World of Avatar opened.

Since 2002, the only attractions to close are the Pocahontas show, Primeval Whirl, Mickey's Jamin Jungle Parade, and Rivers of Light. Two hours of Navi River Journey provides the same ride capacity as the old Pocahontas show had all day. And Expedition Everest and Flight of Passage combined are much more than enough to make up for Primeval Whirl, Jamin Jungle, and Rivers of Light's demise.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The extent of the capacity deficit is dependant on the rate of induced demand. I don't think anyone on this board would like Disney to make this investment in DAK and call the park complete. So if Disney is going to get to a point where the parks have adequate capacity, they need to build stuff to get there.

Would they get there faster if they didn't replace anything on the way? Yes.

But we also know that Dinosaur is expensive to maintain as though it is a major E-ticket, but it is not pulling its weight. So if Disney is going to spend what it takes to keep those EMVs moving through that building, it may be worth switching the show for something more popular (depending on how expensive the conversion is, that math may never pencil out).

But I guess I am not going to hold my breath for DAK to get a DCA-style makeover to get the capacity where it needs to be.

How does Dinosaur pull more weight when it is already being utilized and not induce demand? Higher wait times means you’ve induced demand.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I’m not suggesting expansion is not also necessary. But, Dinoland is definitely and issue for the park and it needs to be fixed. They also should add attractions elsewhere.

I thought it was obvious they wanted guests in the park all day. They did make the night safaris and RoL. Both just failed. That doesn’t mean the idea is abandoned forever.

Exactly, one does not preclude the other. Dinoland needs to be addressed but that doesn't mean the park couldn't also use additional capacity elsewhere.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Data is vital in theme park development. They manipulate data too much. The CEO wants IP so they manipulate data to show the parks need it. RoL failed and it didn’t have IP at the start. Therefore, people hate nighttime spectaculars without IP, right?

Correct. Disney absolutely surveys and focus groups to tell a certain story. They constantly learn the wrong lessons from successes and failures.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If you had a million dollars and you throw it in the trash and five years later you are given a million dollars... you have the same amount of money as you did before (ignoring inflation).

So if the park had 1200 pph capacity and five years later replaces the 1200 pph capacity they are just back where they started. They haven't gained.

Assuming Encanto is a ride, it's not a high bar to get over that this ride would A. be better than Primeval Whirl and B. have a higher capacity than Primeval Whirl. While the entire overhaul isn't my first choice, it's definitely better than their first proposal and would still likely be an improvement over anything that has ever existed in this area.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Exactly, one does not preclude the other. Dinoland needs to be addressed but that doesn't mean the park couldn't also use additional capacity elsewhere.

absolutely, I don't think anyone is saying *just* doing the Dinoland makeover is sufficient.

But Primeval Whirl has been closed since before the pandemic, so any new attraction would really be a net addition to the current park

Even if the other two net each other out, still will help draw people and ease demand elsewhere on property

Plus, they are areas not dependent on animals so they could keep the parks open longer - if the parks stays open 2 hours longer b/c of this (and because more people will stay longer and eat dinner there, etc), now you are getting 2 hours more of capacity for FoP, Navi, Everest, the new Zootopia show, and the Dinoland rides, plus any shows that might have an extra show or two

 

[SpectreJordan]

Well, according to this NRJ is about 55 minutes, so there's clearly no accounting for taste. That was the very definition of "one and done" for me.

That'd be a great ride... if it had an average maximum wait time of 30 minutes. The hour long wait it usually gets is not worth it.

Absolutely - and the updates to the Diniorama area will do that. Updating Dinosaur just is part of that larger project

Ideally they would also add a third attraction to Pandora and do something with the land behind Kali - this definitely won't "fix" the park, but it is more than just retheming Dinosaur. If that winds up being the only thing done that would be a hung mistake/misuse of funds

Dinorama being replaced is a good step in fixing the capacity issues. But we need to see them commit to further expansions too; the ideas you suggested would be the right move.

There's a high likelihood that they see replacing Dinosaur & adding Encanto as enough for the decade after they open, when it really isn't. Then at that point, they might end up replacing more instead of expanding...again.

I think even MK is seriously lacking attractions. My belief is each park should have the same amount of attractions as Disneyland Park in Anaheim. I don't for the life of me know why each park is lacking attractions compared to Disneyland.

It must be a difference in each resort's leadership or something. Disneyland's see the value in adding capacity, WDW's don't give a crap.

 

[lazyboy97o]

absolutely, I don't think anyone is saying *just* doing the Dinoland makeover is sufficient.

But you’re not explaining how first making things worse is a path to improvement. All of what is said about drawing more people only really works if it is sufficient to handle current capacity needs and the park can handle drawing more people.